Re: [PD] Pd & massively multi-channel wi-fi speakers
hi, very interesting project! your solution should definitely work! if your audio is not too time-critical also movements between speakers should be possible with a good osc-schedule. avoid osx as master for osc-sends as netsend tends to crash pd if one of the r(aspberry)pi-clients is not available. i use a similar approach to control serveral (mobile) projectors and speakers and it works. but you never know when your osc messagge really arrives especially with rpi-wlan (deactivate energy-safe-mode!). another solution could be to use the rtc which is present on some rpi audiocards to run through the schedule on the several pis. liebe grüße marco Am 12.04.19 um 11:15 schrieb Kerry Hagan: Hello all, It has been a few months, but the project is now underway, and I thought I might let you know what I sorted: The project does not require high fidelity or precise panning. And it is under a limited budget (for a computer science department in a university) but much higher than I was initially anticipating. So, I have ordered 25 Raspberry Pis with 25 pairs of RPi compatible speakers and 25 1mA-h battery packs. Each little fella will be hidden discreetly in a dinner-table centrepiece at a big university fund-raising event. The RPis will have slave Pd patches and sound files on them, and my laptop will be directing each Pi to play sound files/processes via pd-send and OSC in a master patch. So though I’m not technically sending audio through wireless, it will sound like the files are moving through the ballroom from dinner table to dinner table. Initial tests are promising, but it will be a couple of weeks (university purchase ordering bureaucracy) before I get my grubby little hands on the whole 25 of them to test. I won’t bother the list with any more updates, but if you’re curious to see how it turns out, drop me a line off-list and I’ll send a link to pictures/sounds when it all is over. Kerry On 18 Feb 2019, at 18:52, Peter P. wrote: * Maximiliano Estudies [2019-02-18 19:31]: the radio idea sounds like a lot of fun. I guess Max Neuhaus has done such things. ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd & massively multi-channel wi-fi speakers
Hi Kerry, THX for the update, sounds fascinatingly awesome (or awesomely fascinating), Would definitely be interested to hear how this pans out (ho ho), be great if you shared a link once there's some online documentation. All the best, Julian On Fri, 12 Apr 2019 at 10:25, Kerry Hagan wrote: > Hello all, > > It has been a few months, but the project is now underway, and I thought I > might let you know what I sorted: > > The project does not require high fidelity or precise panning. And it is > under a limited budget (for a computer science department in a university) > but much higher than I was initially anticipating. > > So, I have ordered 25 Raspberry Pis with 25 pairs of RPi compatible > speakers and 25 1mA-h battery packs. Each little fella will be hidden > discreetly in a dinner-table centrepiece at a big university fund-raising > event. > > The RPis will have slave Pd patches and sound files on them, and my laptop > will be directing each Pi to play sound files/processes via pd-send and OSC > in a master patch. So though I’m not technically sending audio through > wireless, it will sound like the files are moving through the ballroom from > dinner table to dinner table. > > Initial tests are promising, but it will be a couple of weeks (university > purchase ordering bureaucracy) before I get my grubby little hands on the > whole 25 of them to test. > > I won’t bother the list with any more updates, but if you’re curious to > see how it turns out, drop me a line off-list and I’ll send a link to > pictures/sounds when it all is over. > > Kerry > > > > > On 18 Feb 2019, at 18:52, Peter P. wrote: > > > > * Maximiliano Estudies [2019-02-18 19:31]: > >> the radio idea sounds like a lot of fun. > > I guess Max Neuhaus has done such things. > > > > > > > > ___ > > Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > ___ > Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd & massively multi-channel wi-fi speakers
Hello all, It has been a few months, but the project is now underway, and I thought I might let you know what I sorted: The project does not require high fidelity or precise panning. And it is under a limited budget (for a computer science department in a university) but much higher than I was initially anticipating. So, I have ordered 25 Raspberry Pis with 25 pairs of RPi compatible speakers and 25 1mA-h battery packs. Each little fella will be hidden discreetly in a dinner-table centrepiece at a big university fund-raising event. The RPis will have slave Pd patches and sound files on them, and my laptop will be directing each Pi to play sound files/processes via pd-send and OSC in a master patch. So though I’m not technically sending audio through wireless, it will sound like the files are moving through the ballroom from dinner table to dinner table. Initial tests are promising, but it will be a couple of weeks (university purchase ordering bureaucracy) before I get my grubby little hands on the whole 25 of them to test. I won’t bother the list with any more updates, but if you’re curious to see how it turns out, drop me a line off-list and I’ll send a link to pictures/sounds when it all is over. Kerry > On 18 Feb 2019, at 18:52, Peter P. wrote: > > * Maximiliano Estudies [2019-02-18 19:31]: >> the radio idea sounds like a lot of fun. > I guess Max Neuhaus has done such things. > > > > ___ > Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Pd & massively multi-channel wi-fi speakers
I did as project some time ago with the NextThing CHIP computer attached to speakers. Each of 8 CHIPs ran a PD synth patch, and was attached to a speaker. One CHIP was attached to a Livid DS1 MIDI controller, which broadcast commands over the network to all the PD patches. Each channel strip of the DS1 (1 fader and 5 pots) controlled the synth patch on each CHIP, so I had 8 channels of synthesis. In short, it was a WiFi spatial synth. I never really got to exploit this system in its final form, but I did test it all and it worked quite nicely. It wasn’t terribly complicated, and since the CHIP was pretty cheap, it wasn’t terribly expensive. You can still find them on Amazon for $20 or so. I should probably find a grant and residency at some Italian castle or something so I can finish this project :) Peter ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd & massively multi-channel wi-fi speakers
* Maximiliano Estudies [2019-02-18 19:31]: > the radio idea sounds like a lot of fun. I guess Max Neuhaus has done such things. ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd & massively multi-channel wi-fi speakers
the radio idea sounds like a lot of fun. El lun., 18 feb. 2019 a las 10:24, Jean-Marie Adrien (< jm.adrien@gmail.com>) escribió: > hi > as far as i know, two major problems > - wireless speakers to be found for sale in the industry are based on the > stereophonic paradigm, music coming out of two holes and that’s it > - wireless technology introduces some latency, which is somehow > contradictory with the pd real time approach, even more since the industry > runs now after the personal assistant segment, to generate more profit, and > this introduces though even more latency, which is in itself not a problem > if you playback dead sounds like in the last millenium. > > there must be some ways to turn around these problems though, like radios > indeed :), but these ways around have to be considered in balance with > installing simple cables, and this even more if sound sources are not > mobile in space. > > i am however always curious to learn about the subject > jm > > > Le 18 févr. 2019 à 09:19, Peter P. a écrit : > > > > * Kerry Hagan [2019-02-17 12:56]: > >> Hello all, > >> > >> Has anyone used wi-fi speakers with Pd? > > > >> > >> More importantly - I would ideally like to send 30 independent audio > channels to 30 battery-powered wi-fi speakers (in the same room) > > Do you mean Wifi or Bluetooth? Could you use small FM transmitters and > > 30 battery powered radios, like, in the last millenium, instead? > > > >> I’ve never used any wi-fi speakers for anything at all, and I’m finding > it hard to see how they are connected without some proprietary software > made by the usual suspects. I’ve scoured eBay, Amazon, Curry’s without > being able to answer my own questions. > > Well, these pages don't give answers, they sell you things ;) > > > > > > > > ___ > > Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > ___ > Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > -- Maximiliano Estudies +49 176 36784771 omslo.com maxiestudies.com ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd & massively multi-channel wi-fi speakers
hi as far as i know, two major problems - wireless speakers to be found for sale in the industry are based on the stereophonic paradigm, music coming out of two holes and that’s it - wireless technology introduces some latency, which is somehow contradictory with the pd real time approach, even more since the industry runs now after the personal assistant segment, to generate more profit, and this introduces though even more latency, which is in itself not a problem if you playback dead sounds like in the last millenium. there must be some ways to turn around these problems though, like radios indeed :), but these ways around have to be considered in balance with installing simple cables, and this even more if sound sources are not mobile in space. i am however always curious to learn about the subject jm > Le 18 févr. 2019 à 09:19, Peter P. a écrit : > > * Kerry Hagan [2019-02-17 12:56]: >> Hello all, >> >> Has anyone used wi-fi speakers with Pd? > >> >> More importantly - I would ideally like to send 30 independent audio >> channels to 30 battery-powered wi-fi speakers (in the same room) > Do you mean Wifi or Bluetooth? Could you use small FM transmitters and > 30 battery powered radios, like, in the last millenium, instead? > >> I’ve never used any wi-fi speakers for anything at all, and I’m finding it >> hard to see how they are connected without some proprietary software made by >> the usual suspects. I’ve scoured eBay, Amazon, Curry’s without being able to >> answer my own questions. > Well, these pages don't give answers, they sell you things ;) > > > > ___ > Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Pd & massively multi-channel wi-fi speakers
My 2 cents: Using just commercial speakers might be difficult. There are devices which use the DLNA protocol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Living_Network_Alliance <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Living_Network_Alliance>) those which use AirPlay by Apple. There might be others, but I think those are the main ones right now. If you are streaming over a network connection, you're always going to be running into latency & buffering issues. Also, if you need the channels to be synced (ie. mixed down multi-channel piece), you need the system to set latencies among the speakers so each is playing roughly in sync with the other. Other than professional gear like massively-multichannel over Ethernet (Cobranet) or Coax/Fiber (MADI, etc), I'm not sure it would be that easy. AirPlay manages this automatically but I have no idea if it could handle that many devices as it's probably focused more on consumer situations, up to 10 devices probably. On the other side of things, if you don't care about channel syncing as much, you could use an Icecast server and have the devices stream audio from the local server. This basically works like internet radio and you could probably have 16 stereo stream points or even 32 mono points. You'd need to stream from whatever is generating/playing the audio. There are a few options out there but almost all are focused on stereo, so mileage may vary. In the opposite direction (streaming many to one), we did a streaming performance piece here last summer which forwarded live stereo mixdown from 4 performances across town simultaneously. Visitors to our studio space could then mix & "mash" (apply effects on, etc) the streams using various interfaces. I set up an Icecast server as the in between and was able to pull all 4 streams at the same time using concurrent VLC clients and forward them to Pd using JACK. It was clunky but worked pretty well after some testing. > On Feb 17, 2019, at 5:14 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote: > > Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2019 11:48:43 + > From: Kerry Hagan mailto:klha...@gmail.com>> > To: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>> > Subject: [PD] Pd & massively multi-channel wi-fi speakers > Message-ID: <23bf28c9-deed-44f5-87d2-726af5e87...@gmail.com > <mailto:23bf28c9-deed-44f5-87d2-726af5e87...@gmail.com>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hello all, > > Has anyone used wi-fi speakers with Pd? > > More importantly - I would ideally like to send 30 independent audio channels > to 30 battery-powered wi-fi speakers (in the same room) > > I’ve never used any wi-fi speakers for anything at all, and I’m finding it > hard to see how they are connected without some proprietary software made by > the usual suspects. I’ve scoured eBay, Amazon, Curry’s without being able to > answer my own questions. > > And, best I can tell, the most flexible assignable speakers cost in the 100s > or 1000s of USD/EUR > > I’ve got a budget of a couple 100 euros at best. > > Any advice or pointers are welcome. > > Cheers, > > Kerry Dan Wilcox @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/> ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Pd & massively multi-channel wi-fi speakers
Hello all, Has anyone used wi-fi speakers with Pd? More importantly - I would ideally like to send 30 independent audio channels to 30 battery-powered wi-fi speakers (in the same room) I’ve never used any wi-fi speakers for anything at all, and I’m finding it hard to see how they are connected without some proprietary software made by the usual suspects. I’ve scoured eBay, Amazon, Curry’s without being able to answer my own questions. And, best I can tell, the most flexible assignable speakers cost in the 100s or 1000s of USD/EUR I’ve got a budget of a couple 100 euros at best. Any advice or pointers are welcome. Cheers, Kerry ___ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
