Re: [PD] "make app" for vanilla?

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Em seg., 4 de jan. de 2021 às 17:58, Dan Wilcox 
escreveu:

> Alex: If the question is really "hey, can we have that 'make an app'
> option that Pd-extended had?"
>

yup


> then it perhaps makes sense to first look at the code in Pd-extended which
> did this action:
>
>
> https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/pd-extended/ci/master/tree/tcl/pd_menucommands.tcl#l313
>
> which calls
>
>
> https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/pd-extended/ci/master/tree/tcl/makeapp.tcl
>

I had done that, but my knowledge is limited, I just got that it did with
tcl/tk and so I asked if we could have this as some tcl/tk plugin, but I
wouldn't know if there was something else in the way I just couldn't see...


> I imagine it could be ported to a gui plugin that would create a
> standalone "app" using the version of Pd and the current platform. As
> Christof mentions, it's basically copying the Pd install into a new folder
> and renaming some stuff. For Mac, that folder is the .app bundle and
> follows a rather strict layout. This could reasonably be extended for
> Windows and Linux.
>

Awesome, so it seems there's nothing "unreasonable". I'll put a pin on this
then, and talk to a friend who already worked with tcl/tk plugins to see if
he'd be interested in doing this.

thanks
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Re: [PD] "make app" for vanilla?

[Dan Wilcox]

> On Jan 2, 2021, at 6:26 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2021 17:42:54 +0100
> From: Christof Ressi mailto:i...@christofressi.com>>
> You can always distribute Pd along your project and have a simple 
> top-level shell script resp. batch script which opens your main patch 
> with the bundled Pd version. Give the script a nice icon and off you go :-)

This is mainly what I do and would be my first suggestion as well.

> The downside is that on Windows and macOS you get a visible terminal 
> window, but there are workarounds.

This is less of a problem if it's for an installation or specific users.

> I did a quick search and found the following for macOS:
> 
> https://sveinbjorn.org/platypus 

I don't know about this tool, but I imagine it does the same as the 
mac/osx-app.sh script included with the Pd sources. I wrote that script heavily 
borrowing from a script of the same name written for the Inkscape project.

Alex: If the question is really "hey, can we have that 'make an app' option 
that Pd-extended had?" then it perhaps makes sense to first look at the code in 
Pd-extended which did this action:

https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/pd-extended/ci/master/tree/tcl/pd_menucommands.tcl#l313
 


which calls

https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/pd-extended/ci/master/tree/tcl/makeapp.tcl 


I imagine it could be ported to a gui plugin that would create a standalone 
"app" using the version of Pd and the current platform. As Christof mentions, 
it's basically copying the Pd install into a new folder and renaming some 
stuff. For Mac, that folder is the .app bundle and follows a rather strict 
layout. This could reasonably be extended for Windows and Linux.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] "make app" for vanilla?

[Roman Haefeli]

On Sat, 2021-01-02 at 22:00 +0100, João Pais wrote:
> > I made a netpd.app that is basically a Pd.app containing patches
> > and
> > externals. I use kiosk-plugin to disable menus and Pd-console. I
> > modified pd-gui.tcl to load the main patch automatically. If
> > interested, have a look at:
> > 
> > https://www.netpd.org/software/netpd-2.2.1_macos.dmg (for macOS)
> > https://www.netpd.org/software/netpd-2.2.1_windows.zip (for
> > Windows)
> > 
> > I just put together the pieces, it's all based on the hard work of
> > Dan
> > Wilcox. Thanks for that!
> 
> That is nice, where is it documented for both windows and mac
> versions?

It's all hacky and wacky (especially for Windows), but have a look
anyway:

https://gitlab.zhdk.ch/rhaefeli/netpd-app-builder


Roman


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Re: [PD] "make app" for vanilla?

[IOhannes m zmölnig]

Am 2. Jänner 2021 23:37:32 MEZ schrieb Christof Ressi :
> > I meant you have to get the source of the externals and compile it 
> > yourself
> Not necessarily. That is only the case if libpd is compiled with 
> multi-instance support


exactly.
in this thread we are talking about creating a "standalone app", so I don't see 
why you need multi-instance support at all.
so you can use existing (compiled) binaries (as installed from deken) with your 
libpd application. 


mfg.hft.fsl
IOhannes


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Re: [PD] "make app" for vanilla?

[Christof Ressi]

I meant you have to get the source of the externals and compile it 
yourself
Not necessarily. That is only the case if libpd is compiled with 
multi-instance support and the (single-instance) external uses global 
variables (like 's_symbol', 's_float', etc.).


The 's_*' variables will cause an obvious linker error. 'pd_this' is a 
bit more tricky*), but I think externals are not  supposed to use it 
directly.


Christof

*) For single-instance externals 'pd_this' is a macro for accessing 
'pd_maininstance', while for multi-instance libpd 'pd_this' points to 
the current instance. Unfortunately, the latter also exports 
'pd_maininstance', so we would get silent failures instead of a linker 
error. Maybe multi-instance libpd shouldn't export 'pd_maininstance' at all?


On 02.01.2021 22:33, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
Em sáb., 2 de jan. de 2021 às 15:35, IOhannes m zmölnig 
mailto:zmoel...@iem.at>> escreveu:


Am 2. Jänner 2021 17:10:21 MEZ schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres
mailto:por...@gmail.com>>:
> Yeah, we
> have libpd, but that doesn't support externals out of the box, for
> instance.


Yeah, I know you can compile libpd with externals, bue well, you know, 
by "out of the box" I meant you have to get the source of the 
externals and compile it yourself, and that alone may even not work 
right away, so it involves some hassle.


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Re: [PD] "make app" for vanilla?

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Em sáb., 2 de jan. de 2021 às 15:35, IOhannes m zmölnig 
escreveu:

> Am 2. Jänner 2021 17:10:21 MEZ schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres <
> por...@gmail.com>:
> > Yeah, we
> > have libpd, but that doesn't support externals out of the box, for
> > instance.


Yeah, I know you can compile libpd with externals, bue well, you know, by
"out of the box" I meant you have to get the source of the externals and
compile it yourself, and that alone may even not work right away, so it
involves some hassle.
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Re: [PD] "make app" for vanilla?

[João Pais]

I made a netpd.app that is basically a Pd.app containing patches and
externals. I use kiosk-plugin to disable menus and Pd-console. I
modified pd-gui.tcl to load the main patch automatically. If
interested, have a look at:

https://www.netpd.org/software/netpd-2.2.1_macos.dmg (for macOS)
https://www.netpd.org/software/netpd-2.2.1_windows.zip (for Windows)

I just put together the pieces, it's all based on the hard work of Dan
Wilcox. Thanks for that!


That is nice, where is it documented for both windows and mac versions?


Joao




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Re: [PD] "make app" for vanilla?

[Roman Haefeli]

Hey Alex

On Thu, 2020-12-31 at 18:19 -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
> Hi, we all know Pd Extended had that nice feature of sharing your
> patch as an app, could that be available for Vanilla as a plugin? 

Maybe the answer is in your subject line? When I read it, I thought you
were talking about the mac/osx-app.sh script that creates the Pd.app
and is invoked by the very 'make app' command. I don't know how Pd-
extended did it, but considering there is already a script able to
build an app, I'd start from there. It even contains the commands to
code-sign the result. 

I made a netpd.app that is basically a Pd.app containing patches and
externals. I use kiosk-plugin to disable menus and Pd-console. I
modified pd-gui.tcl to load the main patch automatically. If
interested, have a look at: 

https://www.netpd.org/software/netpd-2.2.1_macos.dmg (for macOS)
https://www.netpd.org/software/netpd-2.2.1_windows.zip (for Windows)

I just put together the pieces, it's all based on the hard work of Dan
Wilcox. Thanks for that!


Roman






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Re: [PD] "make app" for vanilla?

[IOhannes m zmölnig]

Am 2. Jänner 2021 17:10:21 MEZ schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres 
:
> Yeah, we
> have libpd, but that doesn't support externals out of the box, for
> instance.
> 


why are you saying that? it is wrong.
libpd supports externals (both abstractions and "compiled" externals) just fine.


mfg.hft.fsl
IOhannes


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Re: [PD] "make app" for vanilla?

[Peter P.]

* Christof Ressi  [2021-01-02 17:42]:
> You can always distribute Pd along your project and have a simple top-level
> shell script resp. batch script which opens your main patch with the bundled
> Pd version. Give the script a nice icon and off you go :-)



> The downside is that on Windows and macOS you get a visible terminal window,
> but there are workarounds.
> 
> I did a quick search and found the following for macOS:
> 
> https://sveinbjorn.org/platypus
> 
> "*Platypus* is a developer tool that creates native Mac applications from
> command line scripts such as shell scripts or Python, Perl, Ruby, Tcl,
> JavaScript and PHP programs. This is done by wrapping the script in a macOS
> application bundle  along
> with an app binary that runs the script."

I was wondering if current OS Xs do allow the simple execution of such bundles
or even the scripts alone if they are distributed without having been
sprinkled with certified OSX developers bodily fluids?

best, P



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Re: [PD] "make app" for vanilla?

[Christof Ressi]

You can always distribute Pd along your project and have a simple 
top-level shell script resp. batch script which opens your main patch 
with the bundled Pd version. Give the script a nice icon and off you go :-)


The downside is that on Windows and macOS you get a visible terminal 
window, but there are workarounds.


I did a quick search and found the following for macOS:

https://sveinbjorn.org/platypus

"*Platypus* is a developer tool that creates native Mac applications 
from command line scripts such as shell scripts or Python, Perl, Ruby, 
Tcl, JavaScript and PHP programs. This is done by wrapping the script in 
a macOS application bundle 
 along with an app 
binary that runs the script."


Christof

On 01.01.2021 18:34, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
Em sex., 1 de jan. de 2021 às 13:36, Josh Moore 
mailto:kh405.7h3...@gmail.com>> escreveu:


not a vanilla solution


My original idea is that we could make a plugin for vanilla, 
downloadable via deken, so I don't expect this to become a "vanilla 
solution" out of the box. And I thought we could just get the code 
from Extended and port it as such a plugin for vanilla. But yeah, 
other solutions are welcome though ;) thanks


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Re: [PD] "make app" for vanilla?

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Seems a bit of an overkill involving other languages and all that. Yeah, we
have libpd, but that doesn't support externals out of the box, for instance.

The "make app" we had in Extended was much simpler. It'd replicate the Pd
app and just open the patch you turned into an "app". This is convenient to
share your art work as it doesn't require people to download Pd + your
patch and maybe even externals. And everything is guaranteed to work out of
the box wherever you open it.

I've used this a couple of times back in the day for installations in art
galleries and it really felt good! People running the exhibition had no
trouble at all managing this. It is also good for concerts situations where
all pieces are played from one computer. You have your piece in an app in a
pendrive and it just works! I can see the point that it's not too much of
an incredible convenience, but it surely is convenient and the point is
that this was once made and maybe could be easily incorporated as a plugin
so you can generate an app.

cheers

Em sáb., 2 de jan. de 2021 às 10:56, Andre Osku Schmidt 
escreveu:

> > other solutions are welcome though ;)
>
> in case you want a custom ui, and want pd only for the "it's running in
> the background" part, i've been experimenting with pd+osc+qml and it's
> pretty nice! but i guess if one needs much/fast data between pd<->qml, osc
> might not be enough... (i already got "bad feeling" sending waveform
> average datas over osc)
>
> so it's really itching in my fingers to make an app (like pd(droid)party)
> with qt (that supposedly can compile for every os!) and libpd (i know only
> that it exists). and use pd patches for the "backend" and qml scripts for
> the "frontend"...
>
> but don't hold your breath, creating (cross) compiling and "advanced" (qt)
> c/c++ code is something where i seem to rage quit pretty early... *nudge
> nudge, wink wink*
>
> qt: https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/supported-platforms.html
> qml: https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qmlapplications.html
> osc: https://github.com/hecomi/qml-osc
>
> cheerio
> .oskude
>
> ps. in case you try my fork of qml-osc, it seems i broke single values,
> hups... todo...
> pps. there is also https://www.qt.io/qt-for-python but meh...
>
>
>
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2020 18:19:36 -0300
> Alexandre Torres Porres  wrote:
>
> > Hi, we all know Pd Extended had that nice feature of sharing your patch
> as
> > an app, could that be available for Vanilla as a plugin? What would it
> > take? What other similar solution could we have instead?
> >
> > Of course we can just share a zipped file with the patch and all external
> > dependencies, and then ask people to download Pd vanilla, but the "app"
> > idea is still more convenient for complete dummies.
> >
> > cheers
> > happy 2021
>
>
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Re: [PD] "make app" for vanilla?

[Andre Osku Schmidt]

> other solutions are welcome though ;)

in case you want a custom ui, and want pd only for the "it's running in the 
background" part, i've been experimenting with pd+osc+qml and it's pretty nice! 
but i guess if one needs much/fast data between pd<->qml, osc might not be 
enough... (i already got "bad feeling" sending waveform average datas over osc)

so it's really itching in my fingers to make an app (like pd(droid)party) with 
qt (that supposedly can compile for every os!) and libpd (i know only that it 
exists). and use pd patches for the "backend" and qml scripts for the 
"frontend"...

but don't hold your breath, creating (cross) compiling and "advanced" (qt) 
c/c++ code is something where i seem to rage quit pretty early... *nudge nudge, 
wink wink*

qt: https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/supported-platforms.html
qml: https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qmlapplications.html
osc: https://github.com/hecomi/qml-osc

cheerio
.oskude

ps. in case you try my fork of qml-osc, it seems i broke single values, hups... 
todo...
pps. there is also https://www.qt.io/qt-for-python but meh...



On Thu, 31 Dec 2020 18:19:36 -0300
Alexandre Torres Porres  wrote:

> Hi, we all know Pd Extended had that nice feature of sharing your patch as
> an app, could that be available for Vanilla as a plugin? What would it
> take? What other similar solution could we have instead?
> 
> Of course we can just share a zipped file with the patch and all external
> dependencies, and then ask people to download Pd vanilla, but the "app"
> idea is still more convenient for complete dummies.
> 
> cheers
> happy 2021




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Re: [PD] "make app" for vanilla?

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Em sex., 1 de jan. de 2021 às 13:36, Josh Moore 
escreveu:

> not a vanilla solution
>

My original idea is that we could make a plugin for vanilla, downloadable
via deken, so I don't expect this to become a "vanilla solution" out of the
box. And I thought we could just get the code from Extended and port it as
such a plugin for vanilla. But yeah, other solutions are welcome though ;)
thanks
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Re: [PD] "make app" for vanilla?

[Josh Moore]

another thing is i've been playing around with csound and the web and the
way it handles creating guis is just easier. you can get lost for days
finding free javascript buttons and stuff like that.(good example is
https://freefrontend.com/css-buttons/ 167 button designs, lots are 3d it's
crazy... hell you want a javascript keyboard you got that too
https://codepen.io/gabrielcarol/pen/rGeEbY )

i seen chatter about an emscripten compiled pdlib in this list not too long
ago so that's another way to distribute, you can even run this kind of
thing on a github page. pure javascript so...

I think if I ever do anything in a public form like that i will probably
just use the web from now on. performance is fine, don't gotta download
anything to use it. don't need special tools to code for it, just browser
and text editor and ur dsp config. latency is so-so though not unusable
(30-40 ms).

On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 1:21 PM Alexandre Torres Porres 
wrote:

> Hi, we all know Pd Extended had that nice feature of sharing your patch as
> an app, could that be available for Vanilla as a plugin? What would it
> take? What other similar solution could we have instead?
>
> Of course we can just share a zipped file with the patch and all external
> dependencies, and then ask people to download Pd vanilla, but the "app"
> idea is still more convenient for complete dummies.
>
> cheers
> happy 2021
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Re: [PD] "make app" for vanilla?

[Josh Moore]

not a vanilla solution but i know ofelia allows you to do this though it's
probably not as user friendly and i don't use that feature... supposedly
compiles to ios, windows, macos, linux. the demo examples did compile on my
machine and i checked it out and it's pretty neat but i'm not really
interested in that i just wanted to use lua in my patches
https://github.com/cuinjune/Ofelia

On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 1:21 PM Alexandre Torres Porres 
wrote:

> Hi, we all know Pd Extended had that nice feature of sharing your patch as
> an app, could that be available for Vanilla as a plugin? What would it
> take? What other similar solution could we have instead?
>
> Of course we can just share a zipped file with the patch and all external
> dependencies, and then ask people to download Pd vanilla, but the "app"
> idea is still more convenient for complete dummies.
>
> cheers
> happy 2021
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