Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[Raphael Isdant]

For a really usable colored spectogram Gui, one solution would be to make
an external with the Cicm wrapper lib: "A C/TK library that aims to
facilitate the creation of objects for Pure Data".
https://github.com/CICM/CicmWrapper

You can see how nice Gui's they achieved in the CEAMMC lib for pd:
https://github.com/uliss/pure-data

They might use a more recent fork of Cicm Wrapper since the original one is
not maintained anymore... you can get in touch with Serge Poltavski for
that.

Le sam. 22 janv. 2022 à 11:23, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay 
a écrit :

> Indeed I noticed that. I was hoping the IEM magic link was containing a
> first simple GUI
>
> Well, I know what I’ll do in my free time… I’ll think of something and
> will look at the various versions of Max GUI writing tutorial, so I can
> translate a road-tested structure.
>
> > On 21 Jan 2022, at 21:48, Christof Ressi  wrote:
> >
> >> http://iem.kug.ac.at/pd/externals-HOWTO
> >
> > Here it is: https://github.com/pure-data/externals-howto
> >
> > However, this guide does not cover GUI plugins.
> >
> > On 21.01.2022 21:44, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:
> >> I was referring to this
> >>
> >> http://iem.kug.ac.at/pd/externals-HOWTO
> >>
> >> Which was referred to in a post in puredata.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 21 Jan 2022, at 19:44, ub  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> probably the link to the svn repo on sourceforge, at the end of this
> page: https://puredata.info/docs/guiplugins/SimpleExamples/
> >>>
> >>> i was wondering about that some time ago too.
> >>>
> >>> cheers,
> >>>
> >>> ub
> >>>
> >>> On 21.01.22 20:36, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
>  Am 21. Jänner 2022 15:40:48 MEZ schrieb Pierre Alexandre Tremblay <
> tremb...@gmail.com>:
> >  the IEM link is dead
>  which link is dead?
>  and where do you find that link?
> 
> 
>  mfg.sfg.jfd
>  IOhannes
> 
> 
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-- 
*Raphaël Isdant*
*Creative teacher & interactive **art freelancer*

http://raphaelisdant.fr
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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[Pierre Alexandre Tremblay]

Indeed I noticed that. I was hoping the IEM magic link was containing a first 
simple GUI

Well, I know what I’ll do in my free time… I’ll think of something and will 
look at the various versions of Max GUI writing tutorial, so I can translate a 
road-tested structure.

> On 21 Jan 2022, at 21:48, Christof Ressi  wrote:
> 
>> http://iem.kug.ac.at/pd/externals-HOWTO
> 
> Here it is: https://github.com/pure-data/externals-howto
> 
> However, this guide does not cover GUI plugins.
> 
> On 21.01.2022 21:44, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:
>> I was referring to this
>> 
>> http://iem.kug.ac.at/pd/externals-HOWTO
>> 
>> Which was referred to in a post in puredata.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 21 Jan 2022, at 19:44, ub  wrote:
>>> 
>>> probably the link to the svn repo on sourceforge, at the end of this page: 
>>> https://puredata.info/docs/guiplugins/SimpleExamples/
>>> 
>>> i was wondering about that some time ago too.
>>> 
>>> cheers,
>>> 
>>> ub
>>> 
>>> On 21.01.22 20:36, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
 Am 21. Jänner 2022 15:40:48 MEZ schrieb Pierre Alexandre Tremblay 
 :
>  the IEM link is dead
 which link is dead?
 and where do you find that link?
 
 
 mfg.sfg.jfd
 IOhannes
 
 
 ___
 Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
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 https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[Christof Ressi]

http://iem.kug.ac.at/pd/externals-HOWTO


Here it is: https://github.com/pure-data/externals-howto

However, this guide does not cover GUI plugins.

On 21.01.2022 21:44, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:

I was referring to this

http://iem.kug.ac.at/pd/externals-HOWTO

Which was referred to in a post in puredata.org




On 21 Jan 2022, at 19:44, ub  wrote:

probably the link to the svn repo on sourceforge, at the end of this page: 
https://puredata.info/docs/guiplugins/SimpleExamples/

i was wondering about that some time ago too.

cheers,

ub

On 21.01.22 20:36, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:

Am 21. Jänner 2022 15:40:48 MEZ schrieb Pierre Alexandre Tremblay 
:

  the IEM link is dead

which link is dead?
and where do you find that link?


mfg.sfg.jfd
IOhannes


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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[Christof Ressi]

Disadvantage is that gem has to be downloaded and installed (or you 
pack it with your externals)


More importantly: Gem runs on the audio thread. It is rarely a good idea 
to run Gem and do audio processing in the same Pd instance.





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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[João Pais]

some ideas:

- try to reduce the quantity of elements so that it's manageable, but 
this isn't that well as it reduces the quality as well
- a extra problem with this is that if you want to add arrays such as 
with multiarray, you'll need to do all that in a gop - and that adds 
processing weight, making everything even heavier


- you could use GEM to display all these elements and keep the quality. 
I didn't understood if the red lines have user interaction; if yes, I'm 
not sure if one can grab "objects" in gem, probably not. but by seeing 
the mouse values it would be easy to connect the interaction with a 
definite array. Disadvantage is that gem has to be downloaded and 
installed (or you pack it with your externals)



Indeed I think that I will have to do an external… I wonder if there is a good 
(simple) how-to on GUI external for Pd that are cross platform and canvas 
compatible… the IEM link is dead and the example code you propose is long (i.e. 
1k lines long :) - I only need to take in lists and draw a coloured point in a 
given coordinate after all :)

Then I can relearn TCLTK which I had to learn 25 years ago when working on v1 
of Cecilia :)




On 21 Jan 2022, at 14:33, Christof Ressi  wrote:

Unfortunately, Pd's GUI capabilities are rather limited. There's probably no 
way around writing your own Tcl/Tk code.

Here's an advanced example from the "else" library: 
https://github.com/porres/pd-else/blob/master/Classes/Source/keyboard.c.

Generally, it would be better to add a GUI plugin, but there are some obstacles 
(see https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1555)

Christof

On 21.01.2022 10:59, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:

Ok lovely people. I cleaned it, and I even did a similar thing to João’s 
'dynamic patching' to see if it would be faster. In my case, it is unusably 
slow for 300x400 for the struct version, and it beachballs completely with the 
‘dynamic patching’ approach.

Even more funny is, if you save the patch once it is drawn, the file is now 
huge and cannot load ;)

I’ve included both patches for 30x40 for fun. At that size they both work 
relatively well. Now, change the numbers to 300 and 400 for less fun :) Any 
pointers to optimisation and/or other ideas welcome

p





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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[Pierre Alexandre Tremblay]

I was referring to this 

http://iem.kug.ac.at/pd/externals-HOWTO

Which was referred to in a post in puredata.org



> 
> On 21 Jan 2022, at 19:44, ub  wrote:
> 
> probably the link to the svn repo on sourceforge, at the end of this page: 
> https://puredata.info/docs/guiplugins/SimpleExamples/
> 
> i was wondering about that some time ago too.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> ub
> 
> On 21.01.22 20:36, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
>> Am 21. Jänner 2022 15:40:48 MEZ schrieb Pierre Alexandre Tremblay 
>> :
>>>  the IEM link is dead
>> 
>> which link is dead?
>> and where do you find that link?
>> 
>> 
>> mfg.sfg.jfd
>> IOhannes
>> 
>> 
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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[ub]

probably the link to the svn repo on sourceforge, at the end of this 
page: https://puredata.info/docs/guiplugins/SimpleExamples/


i was wondering about that some time ago too.

cheers,

ub

On 21.01.22 20:36, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:

Am 21. Jänner 2022 15:40:48 MEZ schrieb Pierre Alexandre Tremblay 
:

  the IEM link is dead


which link is dead?
and where do you find that link?


mfg.sfg.jfd
IOhannes


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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[IOhannes m zmölnig]

Am 21. Jänner 2022 15:40:48 MEZ schrieb Pierre Alexandre Tremblay 
:
>  the IEM link is dead 


which link is dead?
and where do you find that link?


mfg.sfg.jfd
IOhannes


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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Em sex., 21 de jan. de 2022 às 12:18, Alexandre Torres Porres <
por...@gmail.com> escreveu:

>  [multislider]
>

oops, [else/multi.vsl]
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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

I guess the pd list address got accidentally left out? Putting it back...

Em sex., 21 de jan. de 2022 às 11:58, Christof Ressi 
escreveu:

> Alex has written several GUI externals. I think he can give you some
> pointers or link to some examples that might be more relevant for what
> you want to do. Alternatively, you can look at the Pd source code itself.
>

This is what I've been doing, looking at source code of Vanilla's GUI and
externals, but I have to say my knowledge is pretty limited. The keyboard
GUI was the first in my library but someone else had coded it, I developed
on it. Most of my GUIs are pretty simple and I still have to learn how to
properly code properties windows. I also design GUIs with data structures
because I still find it very hard to code GUIs myself, for instance,
[slider2d], [multislider] and many others (most of my GUIs are actually
just abstractions).

So, if anyone knows of a good tutorial on how to write GUIs in Pd, I'd love
that too, hahahaha

cheers
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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[Pierre Alexandre Tremblay]

Indeed I think that I will have to do an external… I wonder if there is a good 
(simple) how-to on GUI external for Pd that are cross platform and canvas 
compatible… the IEM link is dead and the example code you propose is long (i.e. 
1k lines long :) - I only need to take in lists and draw a coloured point in a 
given coordinate after all :)

Then I can relearn TCLTK which I had to learn 25 years ago when working on v1 
of Cecilia :)



> On 21 Jan 2022, at 14:33, Christof Ressi  wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately, Pd's GUI capabilities are rather limited. There's probably no 
> way around writing your own Tcl/Tk code.
> 
> Here's an advanced example from the "else" library: 
> https://github.com/porres/pd-else/blob/master/Classes/Source/keyboard.c.
> 
> Generally, it would be better to add a GUI plugin, but there are some 
> obstacles (see https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1555)
> 
> Christof
> 
> On 21.01.2022 10:59, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:
>> Ok lovely people. I cleaned it, and I even did a similar thing to João’s 
>> 'dynamic patching' to see if it would be faster. In my case, it is unusably 
>> slow for 300x400 for the struct version, and it beachballs completely with 
>> the ‘dynamic patching’ approach.
>> 
>> Even more funny is, if you save the patch once it is drawn, the file is now 
>> huge and cannot load ;)
>> 
>> I’ve included both patches for 30x40 for fun. At that size they both work 
>> relatively well. Now, change the numbers to 300 and 400 for less fun :) Any 
>> pointers to optimisation and/or other ideas welcome
>> 
>> p
>> 
>> 
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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[Christof Ressi]

Unfortunately, Pd's GUI capabilities are rather limited. There's 
probably no way around writing your own Tcl/Tk code.


Here's an advanced example from the "else" library: 
https://github.com/porres/pd-else/blob/master/Classes/Source/keyboard.c.


Generally, it would be better to add a GUI plugin, but there are some 
obstacles (see https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1555)


Christof

On 21.01.2022 10:59, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:

Ok lovely people. I cleaned it, and I even did a similar thing to João’s 
'dynamic patching' to see if it would be faster. In my case, it is unusably 
slow for 300x400 for the struct version, and it beachballs completely with the 
‘dynamic patching’ approach.

Even more funny is, if you save the patch once it is drawn, the file is now 
huge and cannot load ;)

I’ve included both patches for 30x40 for fun. At that size they both work 
relatively well. Now, change the numbers to 300 and 400 for less fun :) Any 
pointers to optimisation and/or other ideas welcome

p


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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[Pierre Alexandre Tremblay]

Ok lovely people. I cleaned it, and I even did a similar thing to João’s 
'dynamic patching' to see if it would be faster. In my case, it is unusably 
slow for 300x400 for the struct version, and it beachballs completely with the 
‘dynamic patching’ approach.

Even more funny is, if you save the patch once it is drawn, the file is now 
huge and cannot load ;)

I’ve included both patches for 30x40 for fun. At that size they both work 
relatively well. Now, change the numbers to 300 and 400 for less fun :) Any 
pointers to optimisation and/or other ideas welcome

p



test-spectrogram-canvas.pd
Description: Binary data


test-spectrogram-struct.pd
Description: Binary data


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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[João Pais]

- if the spectrogram + audio aren't triggered that often, one way would be to use a 
background of canvas objects, each with 1x1 pixels. This sounds very exotic, I did it in 
jmmmp/pix2canvas to "copy-paste" pictures into a Pd patch.

I was trying to do a x-y joystick that way when I did it, so I’ll revisit.


Not sure how practicable it is in your dimensions.

I’m thinking in the ballpark of 200 x 400. Redrawing is on cue, rarely.


if you want a quick prototype, try converting a png with 200x400 with 
jmmmp/pix2canvas. You can then copy-paste those canvases (takes a while 
to paste, and will be quite hard to move around), and then you can do 
random sends just to see how fast the colors can change (you'll notice 
how I structured the send/receive variables). Actually it might be quick 
to send colors, but I'm not sure at all. Anyway it will be much quicker 
than dinamically delete and create them.




- for the pitch+confidence lines, jmmmp/multiarray already allows for several 
arrays with different colors, thickness, etc. Pd's latest version also added 
features similar to that - but I'm not sure you can combine a new array with 
the background mentioned above in a canvas of your choice.

Oh this is new, I’ll go spy on.


I think I had mentioned it already a while ago in a mail.


Thanks again João for your help. Wait to see the new look of the helpfile, much 
improved thanks to your suggestions!


That would be nice to see, yes. Surely soon.

Best,

Joao




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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[Pierre Alexandre Tremblay]

> Do you have a Pd patch somewhere to have a look at?

I’ll tidy up what I have but it is exactly this:

> - if the spectrogram + audio aren't triggered that often, one way would be to 
> use a background of canvas objects, each with 1x1 pixels. This sounds very 
> exotic, I did it in jmmmp/pix2canvas to "copy-paste" pictures into a Pd patch.

I was trying to do a x-y joystick that way when I did it, so I’ll revisit.

> Not sure how practicable it is in your dimensions.

I’m thinking in the ballpark of 200 x 400. Redrawing is on cue, rarely.

>  - since the problem with structuts is only in the drawing, you can use your 
> current patch to calculate the values

The values are baked in already.

>  - If you want mouse interaction with the background it might work only with 
> externals.

No it’ll be just to draw above.

> - for the pitch+confidence lines, jmmmp/multiarray already allows for several 
> arrays with different colors, thickness, etc. Pd's latest version also added 
> features similar to that - but I'm not sure you can combine a new array with 
> the background mentioned above in a canvas of your choice.

Oh this is new, I’ll go spy on.

Thanks again João for your help. Wait to see the new look of the helpfile, much 
improved thanks to your suggestions!

p

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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[João Pais]

An array of data structure rectangles doesn't sound that bad. Why are
you looking for another way?


Because if I have a spectrogram of 400 pixels by 200 pixels, the 
struct drawing was taxing the machine quite a lot. Actually 100 
smaller than that it was taxing the machine…


But maybe I got it wrong. Obviously I’m not aiming at parity of 
features, but just having a spectrogram layer I could tap would be ace.


Do you have a Pd patch somewhere to have a look at?

Just to throw some ideas:

- if the spectrogram + audio aren't triggered that often, one way would 
be to use a background of canvas objects, each with 1x1 pixels. This 
sounds very exotic, I did it in jmmmp/pix2canvas to "copy-paste" 
pictures into a Pd patch. Not sure how practicable it is in your dimensions.


  - since the problem with structuts is only in the drawing, you can 
use your current patch to calculate the values


  - If you want mouse interaction with the background it might work 
only with externals.


- for the pitch+confidence lines, jmmmp/multiarray already allows for 
several arrays with different colors, thickness, etc. Pd's latest 
version also added features similar to that - but I'm not sure you can 
combine a new array with the background mentioned above in a canvas of 
your choice.


jmmmp




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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[Pierre Alexandre Tremblay]

Ok this is a spectroscope (thanks again, this is amazing to see some much more 
advanced Pd mastery than mine)

But I’m looking for a spectrogram (where each pixed of a 2D graph is as dark as 
the loudness of that position (usually time in the x axis and freq in the y 
axis).

The search continues :)

> On 20 Jan 2022, at 18:31, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> 
> I have a vanilla spectroscope abstraction: g_spectroscope. It's pretty simple 
> and good enough for showing a graph, not really for scientific precision. 
> There are also update & dimension controls plus you can turn it off to save 
> CPU.
> 
> https://github.com/danomatika/rc-patches/tree/master/rc
> 
>> On Jan 20, 2022, at 6:01 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
>> 
>> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 16:46:02 +
>> From: Pierre Alexandre Tremblay 
>> To: Pd-List 
>> Subject: [PD] A strange question (yet again)
>> Message-ID: <12f096c2-a42d-42ba-8146-b784978f6...@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Sorry again for my obsessions with pd-vanilla which makes everything harder 
>> - this one might be impossible!
>> 
>> I?m trying to draw a spectrogram in pd-vanilla to match our waveform 
>> visualisation options in FluCoMa for Max and SuperCollider. I saw the 
>> example with the peaks in the documentation, and did myself a sort of grid 
>> of objects (arrays) but the former is not precise enough and the latter was 
>> clogging the machine as you might imagine?
>> 
>> As I am not the best Pd coder, although getting less worse by the day thanks 
>> to you all, I just want to confirm that it is definitely no possible in any 
>> other way than doing the structure of arrays of rectangles.
>> 
>> Any pointer welcome (pun intended again)
>> 
>> p
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
> 
> 
> 



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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[Lucas Cordiviola]

On 1/20/2022 5:17 PM, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:

Btw I don’t know if my previous reply with picture attachements made it to the 
list


Yes it did. at least i could see them.


--

Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.




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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[Pierre Alexandre Tremblay]

Wow thanks, I’ll try it now. 

Btw I don’t know if my previous reply with picture attachements made it to the 
list, if not I’ll reply again with a link…

p

> On 20 Jan 2022, at 18:31, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> 
> I have a vanilla spectroscope abstraction: g_spectroscope. It's pretty simple 
> and good enough for showing a graph, not really for scientific precision. 
> There are also update & dimension controls plus you can turn it off to save 
> CPU.
> 
> https://github.com/danomatika/rc-patches/tree/master/rc
> 
>> On Jan 20, 2022, at 6:01 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
>> 
>> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 16:46:02 +
>> From: Pierre Alexandre Tremblay 
>> To: Pd-List 
>> Subject: [PD] A strange question (yet again)
>> Message-ID: <12f096c2-a42d-42ba-8146-b784978f6...@gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Sorry again for my obsessions with pd-vanilla which makes everything harder 
>> - this one might be impossible!
>> 
>> I?m trying to draw a spectrogram in pd-vanilla to match our waveform 
>> visualisation options in FluCoMa for Max and SuperCollider. I saw the 
>> example with the peaks in the documentation, and did myself a sort of grid 
>> of objects (arrays) but the former is not precise enough and the latter was 
>> clogging the machine as you might imagine?
>> 
>> As I am not the best Pd coder, although getting less worse by the day thanks 
>> to you all, I just want to confirm that it is definitely no possible in any 
>> other way than doing the structure of arrays of rectangles.
>> 
>> Any pointer welcome (pun intended again)
>> 
>> p
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
> 
> 
> 



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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[Dan Wilcox]

I have a vanilla spectroscope abstraction: g_spectroscope. It's pretty simple 
and good enough for showing a graph, not really for scientific precision. There 
are also update & dimension controls plus you can turn it off to save CPU.

https://github.com/danomatika/rc-patches/tree/master/rc 


> On Jan 20, 2022, at 6:01 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2022 16:46:02 +
> From: Pierre Alexandre Tremblay  >
> To: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: [PD] A strange question (yet again)
> Message-ID: <12f096c2-a42d-42ba-8146-b784978f6...@gmail.com 
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Sorry again for my obsessions with pd-vanilla which makes everything harder - 
> this one might be impossible!
> 
> I?m trying to draw a spectrogram in pd-vanilla to match our waveform 
> visualisation options in FluCoMa for Max and SuperCollider. I saw the example 
> with the peaks in the documentation, and did myself a sort of grid of objects 
> (arrays) but the former is not precise enough and the latter was clogging the 
> machine as you might imagine?
> 
> As I am not the best Pd coder, although getting less worse by the day thanks 
> to you all, I just want to confirm that it is definitely no possible in any 
> other way than doing the structure of arrays of rectangles.
> 
> Any pointer welcome (pun intended again)
> 
> p


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] A strange question (yet again)

[Roman Haefeli]

On Thu, 2022-01-20 at 16:46 +, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:
> Sorry again for my obsessions with pd-vanilla which makes everything
> harder - this one might be impossible!
> 
> I’m trying to draw a spectrogram in pd-vanilla to match our waveform
> visualisation options in FluCoMa for Max and SuperCollider. I saw the
> example with the peaks in the documentation,

Can you be more specific?

>  and did myself a sort of grid of objects (arrays) but the former is
> not precise enough and the latter was clogging the machine as you
> might imagine…
> 
> As I am not the best Pd coder, although getting less worse by the day
> thanks to you all, I just want to confirm that it is definitely no
> possible in any other way than doing the structure of arrays of
> rectangles.

I don't think I understand your request. Can you show an example that
is visually similar to what you want?

An array of data structure rectangles doesn't sound that bad. Why are
you looking for another way?

Roman


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