Re: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Em dom., 7 de fev. de 2021 às 06:39, Dan Wilcox 
escreveu:

> As an aside: Don't forget that the absence of a license does not make the
> work explicitly "free for all", quite the opposite:
>

sure, I didn't mean to imply this meant anything could be done, I just
suggested this could have been simply an oversight... by the way, I see
new, finalized and active projects by the same author that don't have
licenses either
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?

[Dan Wilcox]

As an aside: Don't forget that the absence of a license does not make the work 
explicitly "free for all", quite the opposite:

https://choosealicense.com/no-permission/ 


The chances of the original authoring coming back and asking for a takedown etc 
are usually low for this kind of thing, but still better to go ahead and get a 
them to set a minimal license which you can then use with the project to carry 
it forward.

We recently had a project for work using a 3rd party library form GitHub and 
asked the author to add a license so we could, in the end, safely use it in a 
soon-to-be release public project.

> On Feb 7, 2021, at 3:01 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Anyway, usually people provide the source code with a license that makes it
> clear what you can do or not, but this repository has NO LICENSE... this is
> probably because the author didn't care much on how to license it and I bet
> it's because he doesn't care much about what people will do with it.
> Licenses are useful to make restrictions, but not allowing one to provide a
> build for 64 bits would be sort of insane in the open source world.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?

[Kylee Kennedy]

I'd love to see that ported to Windows pd. SDR is fun! I didn't know
someone wrote an external for it.

Kylee

On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 6:03 PM Alexandre Torres Porres 
wrote:

>
> Em sáb., 6 de fev. de 2021 às 22:23, bbob  escreveu:
>
>> Alexandre
>>
>> pretty obscure, i'm sure, but I have a project using Tom Zicarelli's
>> 32bit pd-rtlsdr library (https://github.com/tkzic/pd-rtlsdr).  I've
>> written to Tom a couple times to ask if he's ever thinking about updating
>> it... or if not, if he'd allow someone else to,
>>
>
> And I assume you never got an answer... well, that's probably because this
> is an abandoned project from 7 years ago and he doesn't care anymore :)
>
> I wouldn't call this "obscure", seems like a nice/useful object, but not a
> "relevant" one (meaning not "famous" and widely used external/library like
> the ones from extended)
>
> Anyway, usually people provide the source code with a license that makes
> it clear what you can do or not, but this repository has NO LICENSE... this
> is probably because the author didn't care much on how to license it and I
> bet it's because he doesn't care much about what people will do with it.
> Licenses are useful to make restrictions, but not allowing one to provide a
> build for 64 bits would be sort of insane in the open source world.
>
>
>> though I wouldn't have the faintest clue about how to do that myself.
>>
>
> I probably have a better clue than you, but it's not like that means much
> :) nonetheless, I'll say it's usually not a big deal making it work for 64
> bits
>
> I'd write him one last time saying "I'll fork this and distribute, if you
> have something against it, say it now or never" :)
>
> you can then open a new thread and ask people here for help on making a 64
> build for this, I'd help as I can.
>
> cheers
> ___
> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Em sáb., 6 de fev. de 2021 às 22:23, bbob  escreveu:

> Alexandre
>
> pretty obscure, i'm sure, but I have a project using Tom Zicarelli's
> 32bit pd-rtlsdr library (https://github.com/tkzic/pd-rtlsdr).  I've
> written to Tom a couple times to ask if he's ever thinking about updating
> it... or if not, if he'd allow someone else to,
>

And I assume you never got an answer... well, that's probably because this
is an abandoned project from 7 years ago and he doesn't care anymore :)

I wouldn't call this "obscure", seems like a nice/useful object, but not a
"relevant" one (meaning not "famous" and widely used external/library like
the ones from extended)

Anyway, usually people provide the source code with a license that makes it
clear what you can do or not, but this repository has NO LICENSE... this is
probably because the author didn't care much on how to license it and I bet
it's because he doesn't care much about what people will do with it.
Licenses are useful to make restrictions, but not allowing one to provide a
build for 64 bits would be sort of insane in the open source world.


> though I wouldn't have the faintest clue about how to do that myself.
>

I probably have a better clue than you, but it's not like that means much
:) nonetheless, I'll say it's usually not a big deal making it work for 64
bits

I'd write him one last time saying "I'll fork this and distribute, if you
have something against it, say it now or never" :)

you can then open a new thread and ask people here for help on making a 64
build for this, I'd help as I can.

cheers
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?

[bbob]

Alexandre

pretty obscure, i'm sure, but I have a project using Tom Zicarelli's
32bit pd-rtlsdr library (https://github.com/tkzic/pd-rtlsdr).  I've written
to Tom a couple times to ask if he's ever thinking about updating it... or
if not, if he'd allow someone else to, though I wouldn't have the faintest
clue about how to do that myself.

b


-- Forwarded message --
> From: Alexandre Torres Porres 
> To: Pd-List 
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 11:38:32 -0300
> Subject: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?
> I was discussing this with Eric Lyon cause we're getting an official
> fftease 3.0 release out soon (heads up).
>
> It seems that people who need this are the ones who still use some
> externals that were only compiled for 32 bits. So I guess the question
> should be "which relevant externals are still only available for 32 bits?"
>
> The new macOS systems are 64 bits only, sooner or later we'll all have to
> provide 64 bit builds for the relevant externals out there.
>
> I haven't checked them all thoroughly but it seems that all externals from
> Pd extended are available in deken for 64 bits, right? So I can't see why
> people still need 32 bit versions. Or I mean I don't know which library is
> still 32 bits only and I guess what needs to be done is just get them
> compiled for 64 bits anyway, and I could help with that.
>
> cheers
>
>
>
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?

[João Pais]

no problem, I still have pd 32b and just installed office 32b

Am 06.02.2021 um 18:49 schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres:
> in windows that's not a problem, it's common to have 64+32b software 
running


So the newest system is 64 bits but can run 32 bits like macOS mojave 
and earlier, right? Just wanna get it 100% straight. I guess that's 
the same with Linux, therefore the greatest concern is with macs indeed


Em sáb., 6 de fev. de 2021 às 14:32, João Pais > escreveu:




So y'all can also answer me why you need 32 builds of
windows/linux, if it has to do with externals only being
available for 32 bits. Cause my main concern is to upgrade
"relevant" libraries. But I mentioned macOS cause that's
where I can really help most.


We all know new macOS systems are 64 bits only. Now we have the
new M1 chips that I believe CANNOT run older systems. Therefore,
32 bits is deprecated!

Now, I don't know what's the deal with PCs. I guess anyone can
get any new PC computer and run Pd 32 bits if they want/need,
right? I guess I need to ask: What's the deal with windows/linux?
Do any of you suffer with 32 vs 64 bits issues? Like needing a 64
bit system and not having 64 bit externals for Pd or whatever?


in windows that's not a problem, it's common to have 64+32b
software running. I doubt that any 32b hardware is still being
produced, maybe there's some in the 2nd hand market (I also have 2
mac powerpcs at home, but don't use them, and probably it's not
worth it to consider these relevant)

___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at  mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-manag



___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

> in windows that's not a problem, it's common to have 64+32b software
running

So the newest system is 64 bits but can run 32 bits like macOS mojave and
earlier, right? Just wanna get it 100% straight. I guess that's the same
with Linux, therefore the greatest concern is with macs indeed

Em sáb., 6 de fev. de 2021 às 14:32, João Pais 
escreveu:

>
> So y'all can also answer me why you need 32 builds of windows/linux, if it
>> has to do with externals only being available for 32 bits. Cause my main
>> concern is to upgrade "relevant" libraries. But I mentioned macOS cause
>> that's where I can really help most.
>>
>
> We all know new macOS systems are 64 bits only. Now we have the new M1
> chips that I believe CANNOT run older systems. Therefore, 32 bits is
> deprecated!
>
> Now, I don't know what's the deal with PCs. I guess anyone can get any new
> PC computer and run Pd 32 bits if they want/need, right? I guess I need to
> ask: What's the deal with windows/linux? Do any of you suffer with 32 vs 64
> bits issues? Like needing a 64 bit system and not having 64 bit externals
> for Pd or whatever?
>
> in windows that's not a problem, it's common to have 64+32b software
> running. I doubt that any 32b hardware is still being produced, maybe
> there's some in the 2nd hand market (I also have 2 mac powerpcs at home,
> but don't use them, and probably it's not worth it to consider these
> relevant)
> ___
> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?

[João Pais]

So y'all can also answer me why you need 32 builds of
windows/linux, if it has to do with externals only being available
for 32 bits. Cause my main concern is to upgrade "relevant"
libraries. But I mentioned macOS cause that's where I can really
help most.


We all know new macOS systems are 64 bits only. Now we have the new M1 
chips that I believe CANNOT run older systems. Therefore, 32 bits is 
deprecated!


Now, I don't know what's the deal with PCs. I guess anyone can get any 
new PC computer and run Pd 32 bits if they want/need, right? I guess I 
need to ask: What's the deal with windows/linux? Do any of you suffer 
with 32 vs 64 bits issues? Like needing a 64 bit system and not having 
64 bit externals for Pd or whatever?


in windows that's not a problem, it's common to have 64+32b software 
running. I doubt that any 32b hardware is still being produced, maybe 
there's some in the 2nd hand market (I also have 2 mac powerpcs at home, 
but don't use them, and probably it's not worth it to consider these 
relevant)


___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Em sáb., 6 de fev. de 2021 às 12:45, Alexandre Torres Porres <
por...@gmail.com> escreveu:

>
> So y'all can also answer me why you need 32 builds of windows/linux, if it
> has to do with externals only being available for 32 bits. Cause my main
> concern is to upgrade "relevant" libraries. But I mentioned macOS cause
> that's where I can really help most.
>

We all know new macOS systems are 64 bits only. Now we have the new M1
chips that I believe CANNOT run older systems. Therefore, 32 bits is
deprecated!

Now, I don't know what's the deal with PCs. I guess anyone can get any new
PC computer and run Pd 32 bits if they want/need, right? I guess I need to
ask: What's the deal with windows/linux? Do any of you suffer with 32 vs 64
bits issues? Like needing a 64 bit system and not having 64 bit externals
for Pd or whatever?
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?

[Dan Wilcox]

64-bit Pd works fine on macOS 11 (Big Sur). As far as I recall, all of the 
external builds from Pd-extended were compiled as "fat libs" with ppc, 32, & 64 
bit intel.

On a related note:

The bigger move is to support Apple's new arm64 architecture (currently the M1 
cpu). I have a new MBP with an M1 and Pd builds fine. The current issue is that 
building the custom Tcl/Tk we need for macOS has issues and we are waiting for 
them to be fixed upstream by the Tk devs. Externals will need to be recompiled 
to support the new arm64 architecture and this can also be done with "fat libs" 
that can support both x86_64 (Intel) and arm64. For now, running the Pd 64-bit 
Intel build works fine, more or less seamlessly via Rosetta 2.

> On Feb 6, 2021, at 4:12 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 12:11:58 -0300
> From: Alexandre Torres Porres mailto:por...@gmail.com>>
> To: Jean-Marie Adrien  <mailto:jm.adrien@gmail.com>>
> Cc: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?
> Message-ID:
><mailto:CAEAsFmjqaQhBLaha2x4evsqwB1=svykkz2swwetwqhtyupn...@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Em sáb., 6 de fev. de 2021 às 11:53, Jean-Marie Adrien <
> jm.adrien@gmail.com <mailto:jm.adrien@gmail.com>> escreveu:
> 
>> What about big sur ?
> 
> 
> I installed it just to test, I don't really use it, but I could install Pd
> and also get an old library like  "unauthorized" from deken and it worked.
> I tested the "grid" GUI external and it was fine. So I guess it all should
> just work as well.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

that's for windows, right?

i was asking for macOS, but in fact I could and should expand the question
to all systems!

So y'all can also answer me why you need 32 builds of windows/linux, if it
has to do with externals only being available for 32 bits. Cause my main
concern is to upgrade "relevant" libraries. But I mentioned macOS cause
that's where I can really help most.

cheers


Em sáb., 6 de fev. de 2021 às 12:39, João Pais 
escreveu:

> "my" external [leapmotion] still only exists for 32b, at some point I'll
> have to hire someone to upgrade the port if I do something with it on 64b -
> https://github.com/jmmmp/Pd_Leapmotion_win
>
> But that's surely not considered relevant, probably no one at all besides
> me uses it.
> Joao
>
> I was discussing this with Eric Lyon cause we're getting an official
> fftease 3.0 release out soon (heads up).
>
> It seems that people who need this are the ones who still use some
> externals that were only compiled for 32 bits. So I guess the question
> should be "which relevant externals are still only available for 32 bits?"
>
> The new macOS systems are 64 bits only, sooner or later we'll all have to
> provide 64 bit builds for the relevant externals out there.
>
> I haven't checked them all thoroughly but it seems that all externals from
> Pd extended are available in deken for 64 bits, right? So I can't see why
> people still need 32 bit versions. Or I mean I don't know which library is
> still 32 bits only and I guess what needs to be done is just get them
> compiled for 64 bits anyway, and I could help with that.
>
> cheers
>
> ___pd-l...@lists.iem.at mailing 
> list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
> ___
> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?

[João Pais]

"my" external [leapmotion] still only exists for 32b, at some point I'll 
have to hire someone to upgrade the port if I do something with it on 
64b - https://github.com/jmmmp/Pd_Leapmotion_win


But that's surely not considered relevant, probably no one at all 
besides me uses it.


Joao

I was discussing this with Eric Lyon cause we're getting an official 
fftease 3.0 release out soon (heads up).


It seems that people who need this are the ones who still use some 
externals that were only compiled for 32 bits. So I guess the question 
should be "which relevant externals are still only available for 32 bits?"


The new macOS systems are 64 bits only, sooner or later we'll all have 
to provide 64 bit builds for the relevant externals out there.


I haven't checked them all thoroughly but it seems that all externals 
from Pd extended are available in deken for 64 bits, right? So I can't 
see why people still need 32 bit versions. Or I mean I don't know 
which library is still 32 bits only and I guess what needs to be done 
is just get them compiled for 64 bits anyway, and I could help with that.


cheers

___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Em sáb., 6 de fev. de 2021 às 11:53, Jean-Marie Adrien <
jm.adrien@gmail.com> escreveu:

> What about big sur ?


I installed it just to test, I don't really use it, but I could install Pd
and also get an old library like  "unauthorized" from deken and it worked.
I tested the "grid" GUI external and it was fine. So I guess it all should
just work as well.
___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?

[Jean-Marie Adrien]

Hi
Still using 32 bits pd, (and also 64 bits) : 32 bits are necessary not for PD 
itself, but for drivers of external hardware working with pd, because 
applications based on pd integrate many hardware pieces, some of them old, and 
obtaining a stabilized and cheap integrated hardware set is some work. 
One day ill have to make the jump, though, obviously ... and upgrade hardware.
Nice to read that now almost everything is available in 64 bits however on the 
pd side, and thanks for the wrk !
What about big sur ?
JM

> Le 6 févr. 2021 à 15:38, Alexandre Torres Porres  a écrit :
> 
> I was discussing this with Eric Lyon cause we're getting an official fftease 
> 3.0 release out soon (heads up).
> 
> It seems that people who need this are the ones who still use some externals 
> that were only compiled for 32 bits. So I guess the question should be "which 
> relevant externals are still only available for 32 bits?"
> 
> The new macOS systems are 64 bits only, sooner or later we'll all have to 
> provide 64 bit builds for the relevant externals out there.
> 
> I haven't checked them all thoroughly but it seems that all externals from Pd 
> extended are available in deken for 64 bits, right? So I can't see why people 
> still need 32 bit versions. Or I mean I don't know which library is still 32 
> bits only and I guess what needs to be done is just get them compiled for 64 
> bits anyway, and I could help with that.
> 
> cheers
> ___
> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list




___
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list