Re: GESO March recon vol. 1

2023-08-04 Thread Larry Colen



> On Aug 3, 2023, at 11:06 PM, mike wilson  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 03/08/2023 22:52 Mark Roberts  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> mike wilson wrote:
>> 
>>> Two ways  On the 23, there is a vertical fin under the fuselage at the 
>>> tail.  
>>> Not visible in your pic.  The elevator surfaces extend beyond the jet pipe 
>>> on the 27, which does seem to be the case.  There is also a slight 
>>> difference 
>>> in the air intakes, not discernable here.  Otherwise, they are almost 
>>> identical externally.
>> 
>> If you're into jet plane geekery you might enjoy this fellow's stuff
>> on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCQbBfie3ZA
> 
> That was entertaining...

Indeed


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Re: GESO March recon vol. 1

2023-08-04 Thread mike wilson


> On 03/08/2023 22:52 Mark Roberts  wrote:
> 
>  
> mike wilson wrote:
> 
> >Two ways  On the 23, there is a vertical fin under the fuselage at the tail. 
> > 
> >Not visible in your pic.  The elevator surfaces extend beyond the jet pipe 
> >on the 27, which does seem to be the case.  There is also a slight 
> >difference 
> >in the air intakes, not discernable here.  Otherwise, they are almost 
> >identical externally.
> 
> If you're into jet plane geekery you might enjoy this fellow's stuff
> on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCQbBfie3ZA

That was entertaining...
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Re: GESO March recon vol. 1

2023-08-03 Thread mike wilson


> On 04/08/2023 05:50 Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
>  
> > On Aug 3, 2023, at 1:25 PM, mike wilson  wrote:
> > 
> > Two ways  On the 23, there is a vertical fin under the fuselage at the 
> > tail.  Not visible in your pic.  The elevator surfaces extend beyond the 
> > jet pipe on the 27, which does seem to be the case.  There is also a slight 
> > difference in the air intakes, not discernable here.  Otherwise, they are 
> > almost identical externally.
> 
> There was a third way to tell, do a google search on "March Air Museum  MIG23"
> 
> https://www.marchfield.org/aircraft/fighter/mig-23bn-flogger-mikoyan-gurevich/
> 
Like the man in orthopaedic shoes, I stand corrected.  But no fair modifying a 
23 with most of the bits of a 27 and still calling it a 23.
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Re: GESO March recon vol. 1

2023-08-03 Thread Larry Colen



> On Aug 3, 2023, at 1:25 PM, mike wilson  wrote:
> 
> Two ways  On the 23, there is a vertical fin under the fuselage at the tail.  
> Not visible in your pic.  The elevator surfaces extend beyond the jet pipe on 
> the 27, which does seem to be the case.  There is also a slight difference in 
> the air intakes, not discernable here.  Otherwise, they are almost identical 
> externally.

There was a third way to tell, do a google search on "March Air Museum  MIG23"

https://www.marchfield.org/aircraft/fighter/mig-23bn-flogger-mikoyan-gurevich/

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Re: GESO March recon vol. 1

2023-08-03 Thread Steve Cottrell
Yout took the words straight outa my mouth Roberts.

RIP Dan.

Cot

> On 3 Aug 2023, at 23:49, Mark Roberts  wrote:
> 
> BTW, regarding the original set of photographs (nice stuff) that
> started this thread: I will never be able to look at an F4 Phantom
> without thinking of Dan Matyola.


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Re: GESO March recon vol. 1

2023-08-03 Thread Mark Roberts
BTW, regarding the original set of photographs (nice stuff) that
started this thread: I will never be able to look at an F4 Phantom
without thinking of Dan Matyola.

(Also, I think the F100 Super Saber has to be the ugliest jet fighter
ever.)
 
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Re: GESO March recon vol. 1

2023-08-03 Thread Larry Colen



> On Aug 3, 2023, at 2:52 PM, Mark Roberts  wrote:
> 
> mike wilson wrote:
> 
>> Two ways  On the 23, there is a vertical fin under the fuselage at the tail. 
>>  
>> Not visible in your pic.  The elevator surfaces extend beyond the jet pipe 
>> on the 27, which does seem to be the case.  There is also a slight 
>> difference 
>> in the air intakes, not discernable here.  Otherwise, they are almost 
>> identical externally.
> 
> If you're into jet plane geekery you might enjoy this fellow's stuff
> on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCQbBfie3ZA

Cool!  One thing I don't have is enough things to spend my time on.


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Re: GESO March recon vol. 1

2023-08-03 Thread Mark Roberts
mike wilson wrote:

>Two ways  On the 23, there is a vertical fin under the fuselage at the tail.  
>Not visible in your pic.  The elevator surfaces extend beyond the jet pipe 
>on the 27, which does seem to be the case.  There is also a slight difference 
>in the air intakes, not discernable here.  Otherwise, they are almost 
>identical externally.

If you're into jet plane geekery you might enjoy this fellow's stuff
on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCQbBfie3ZA
 
-- 
Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com



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Re: GESO March recon vol. 1

2023-08-03 Thread mike wilson
Two ways  On the 23, there is a vertical fin under the fuselage at the tail.  
Not visible in your pic.  The elevator surfaces extend beyond the jet pipe on 
the 27, which does seem to be the case.  There is also a slight difference in 
the air intakes, not discernable here.  Otherwise, they are almost identical 
externally.
> On 03/08/2023 17:48 Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
>  
> > On Aug 3, 2023, at 1:25 AM, mike wilson  wrote:
> > 
> > 614 is a Mig 27
> 
> Thanks, someone else ID'd it as a 23.  How to tell the diff?
> Other than going back and getting better photos next time...
> > 
> > The rest seem likely to be trainers, including the twin engined one.
> >> On 03/08/2023 08:53 Larry Colen  wrote:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Last weekend my friend Candice and visited the museum at March Air Base. 
> >> Since it's only a few miles away, I treated it as a recon run and tried to 
> >> get a couple photos of each plane, just to catalog them for my reference.  
> >> It turns out that there are a lot of airplanes there.  
> >> 
> >> This album is fighters, attack planes, trainers, observation & recon and 
> >> related.  
> >> 
> >> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72177720310220971
> >> 
> >> We did luck out and the skies cooperated, so some of the photos actually 
> >> turned out pretty nice.
> >> 
> >> I had my 18-270 on the K-3iii and my Irix 11/4 on my K-1.  In retrospect I 
> >> would have been better off with the 15-30 on the K-1, though it was rather 
> >> fun shooting with the superwide and just needing to remember to adjust the 
> >> hyperfocal distance. 
> >> 
> >> In honor of Dan, I started off with the F4s.  
> >> 
> >> I was able to ID most of the planes in this album.  Some unidentified ones 
> >> are:
> >> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090853715/in/album-72177720310220971/
> >> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090454441/in/album-72177720310220971/
> >> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090639979/in/album-72177720310220971/
> >> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090640614/in/album-72177720310220971/
> >> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53089892077/in/album-72177720310220971/
> >> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090950523/in/album-72177720310220971/
> >> 
> >> I hope that you enjoy them.
> >> --
> >> Larry Colen
> >> l...@red4est.com.   sent from Mirkwood
> >> 
> >> 
> >> --
> >> %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List
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> >> follow the directions.
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> > follow the directions.
> > 
> 
> --
> Larry Colen
> l...@red4est.com  sent from ret13est
> 
> 
> 
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Re: GESO March recon vol. 1

2023-08-03 Thread Larry Colen
Thanks a bunch Paul.

BTW, here is the website for the March Air Museum
https://www.marchfield.org/


> On Aug 3, 2023, at 8:08 AM, Paul Sorenson  wrote:
> 
> Larry - Mike already identified 614, so here goes on the rest..
> 
> 715 - North American T-28
> 441 - Beechcraft T-34
> 979 - Another T-34
> 077 - Douglas A-1 Skyraider
> 523 - Beechcraft 18 (commonly called a Twin Beech)
> 
> Enjoyed the airplane pix.  
> 
> -p
> 
> On 8/3/2023 2:53 AM, Larry Colen wrote:
>> Last weekend my friend Candice and visited the museum at March Air Base. 
>> Since it's only a few miles away, I treated it as a recon run and tried to 
>> get a couple photos of each plane, just to catalog them for my reference.  
>> It turns out that there are a lot of airplanes there.
>> 
>> This album is fighters, attack planes, trainers, observation & recon and 
>> related.
>> 
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72177720310220971
>> 
>> We did luck out and the skies cooperated, so some of the photos actually 
>> turned out pretty nice.
>> 
>> I had my 18-270 on the K-3iii and my Irix 11/4 on my K-1.  In retrospect I 
>> would have been better off with the 15-30 on the K-1, though it was rather 
>> fun shooting with the superwide and just needing to remember to adjust the 
>> hyperfocal distance.
>> 
>> In honor of Dan, I started off with the F4s.
>> 
>> I was able to ID most of the planes in this album.  Some unidentified ones 
>> are:
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090853715/in/album-72177720310220971/
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090454441/in/album-72177720310220971/
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090639979/in/album-72177720310220971/
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090640614/in/album-72177720310220971/
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53089892077/in/album-72177720310220971/
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090950523/in/album-72177720310220971/
>> 
>> I hope that you enjoy them.
>> --
>> Larry Colen
>> l...@red4est.com.   sent from Mirkwood
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> To unsubscribe send an email topdml-le...@pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and 
>> follow the directions.
> 
> -- 
> Paul Sorenson
> Studio1941
> 
> Sooner or later "different" scares people.
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> the directions.
> 

--
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Re: GESO March recon vol. 1

2023-08-03 Thread Larry Colen



> On Aug 3, 2023, at 1:25 AM, mike wilson  wrote:
> 
> 614 is a Mig 27

Thanks, someone else ID'd it as a 23.  How to tell the diff?
Other than going back and getting better photos next time...
> 
> The rest seem likely to be trainers, including the twin engined one.
>> On 03/08/2023 08:53 Larry Colen  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Last weekend my friend Candice and visited the museum at March Air Base. 
>> Since it's only a few miles away, I treated it as a recon run and tried to 
>> get a couple photos of each plane, just to catalog them for my reference.  
>> It turns out that there are a lot of airplanes there.  
>> 
>> This album is fighters, attack planes, trainers, observation & recon and 
>> related.  
>> 
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72177720310220971
>> 
>> We did luck out and the skies cooperated, so some of the photos actually 
>> turned out pretty nice.
>> 
>> I had my 18-270 on the K-3iii and my Irix 11/4 on my K-1.  In retrospect I 
>> would have been better off with the 15-30 on the K-1, though it was rather 
>> fun shooting with the superwide and just needing to remember to adjust the 
>> hyperfocal distance. 
>> 
>> In honor of Dan, I started off with the F4s.  
>> 
>> I was able to ID most of the planes in this album.  Some unidentified ones 
>> are:
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090853715/in/album-72177720310220971/
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090454441/in/album-72177720310220971/
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090639979/in/album-72177720310220971/
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090640614/in/album-72177720310220971/
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53089892077/in/album-72177720310220971/
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090950523/in/album-72177720310220971/
>> 
>> I hope that you enjoy them.
>> --
>> Larry Colen
>> l...@red4est.com.   sent from Mirkwood
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and 
>> follow the directions.
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Re: GESO March recon vol. 1

2023-08-03 Thread mike wilson
I did wonder if that was a Skyraider.  It just looks so petite in the picture.  
> On 03/08/2023 16:08 Paul Sorenson  wrote:
> 
>  
> Larry - Mike already identified 614, so here goes on the rest..
> 
> 715 - North American T-28
> 441 - Beechcraft T-34
> 979 - Another T-34
> 077 - Douglas A-1 Skyraider
> 523 - Beechcraft 18 (commonly called a Twin Beech)
> 
> Enjoyed the airplane pix.  
> 
> -p
> 
> On 8/3/2023 2:53 AM, Larry Colen wrote:
> > Last weekend my friend Candice and visited the museum at March Air Base. 
> > Since it's only a few miles away, I treated it as a recon run and tried to 
> > get a couple photos of each plane, just to catalog them for my reference.  
> > It turns out that there are a lot of airplanes there.
> >
> > This album is fighters, attack planes, trainers, observation & recon and 
> > related.
> >
> > https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72177720310220971
> >
> > We did luck out and the skies cooperated, so some of the photos actually 
> > turned out pretty nice.
> >
> > I had my 18-270 on the K-3iii and my Irix 11/4 on my K-1.  In retrospect I 
> > would have been better off with the 15-30 on the K-1, though it was rather 
> > fun shooting with the superwide and just needing to remember to adjust the 
> > hyperfocal distance.
> >
> > In honor of Dan, I started off with the F4s.
> >
> > I was able to ID most of the planes in this album.  Some unidentified ones 
> > are:
> > https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090853715/in/album-72177720310220971/
> > https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090454441/in/album-72177720310220971/
> > https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090639979/in/album-72177720310220971/
> > https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090640614/in/album-72177720310220971/
> > https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53089892077/in/album-72177720310220971/
> > https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090950523/in/album-72177720310220971/
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Re: GESO March recon vol. 1

2023-08-03 Thread Alan C

Thanks, Larry. Enjoyed that lot even although most are unfamiliar to me.

Alan C

On 03-Aug-23 05:08 PM, Paul Sorenson wrote:

Larry - Mike already identified 614, so here goes on the rest..

715 - North American T-28
441 - Beechcraft T-34
979 - Another T-34
077 - Douglas A-1 Skyraider
523 - Beechcraft 18 (commonly called a Twin Beech)

Enjoyed the airplane pix.  

-p

On 8/3/2023 2:53 AM, Larry Colen wrote:
Last weekend my friend Candice and visited the museum at March Air 
Base. Since it's only a few miles away, I treated it as a recon run 
and tried to get a couple photos of each plane, just to catalog them 
for my reference.  It turns out that there are a lot of airplanes there.


This album is fighters, attack planes, trainers, observation & recon 
and related.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72177720310220971

We did luck out and the skies cooperated, so some of the photos 
actually turned out pretty nice.


I had my 18-270 on the K-3iii and my Irix 11/4 on my K-1.  In 
retrospect I would have been better off with the 15-30 on the K-1, 
though it was rather fun shooting with the superwide and just needing 
to remember to adjust the hyperfocal distance.


In honor of Dan, I started off with the F4s.

I was able to ID most of the planes in this album.  Some unidentified 
ones are:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090853715/in/album-72177720310220971/ 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090454441/in/album-72177720310220971/ 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090639979/in/album-72177720310220971/ 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090640614/in/album-72177720310220971/ 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53089892077/in/album-72177720310220971/ 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090950523/in/album-72177720310220971/ 



I hope that you enjoy them.
--
Larry Colen
l...@red4est.com.   sent from Mirkwood


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Re: GESO March recon vol. 1

2023-08-03 Thread Paul Sorenson

Larry - Mike already identified 614, so here goes on the rest..

715 - North American T-28
441 - Beechcraft T-34
979 - Another T-34
077 - Douglas A-1 Skyraider
523 - Beechcraft 18 (commonly called a Twin Beech)

Enjoyed the airplane pix.  

-p

On 8/3/2023 2:53 AM, Larry Colen wrote:

Last weekend my friend Candice and visited the museum at March Air Base. Since 
it's only a few miles away, I treated it as a recon run and tried to get a 
couple photos of each plane, just to catalog them for my reference.  It turns 
out that there are a lot of airplanes there.

This album is fighters, attack planes, trainers, observation & recon and 
related.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72177720310220971

We did luck out and the skies cooperated, so some of the photos actually turned 
out pretty nice.

I had my 18-270 on the K-3iii and my Irix 11/4 on my K-1.  In retrospect I 
would have been better off with the 15-30 on the K-1, though it was rather fun 
shooting with the superwide and just needing to remember to adjust the 
hyperfocal distance.

In honor of Dan, I started off with the F4s.

I was able to ID most of the planes in this album.  Some unidentified ones are:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090853715/in/album-72177720310220971/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090454441/in/album-72177720310220971/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090639979/in/album-72177720310220971/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090640614/in/album-72177720310220971/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53089892077/in/album-72177720310220971/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090950523/in/album-72177720310220971/

I hope that you enjoy them.
--
Larry Colen
l...@red4est.com.   sent from Mirkwood


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Paul Sorenson
Studio1941

Sooner or later "different" scares people.
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Re: GESO March recon vol. 1

2023-08-03 Thread Larry Colen



> On Aug 3, 2023, at 1:25 AM, mike wilson  wrote:
> 
> 614 is a Mig 27

Thanks, it's actually parked next to an aeroflot an2r, so that makes sense.  
> 
> The rest seem likely to be trainers, including the twin engined one.
>> On 03/08/2023 08:53 Larry Colen  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Last weekend my friend Candice and visited the museum at March Air Base. 
>> Since it's only a few miles away, I treated it as a recon run and tried to 
>> get a couple photos of each plane, just to catalog them for my reference.  
>> It turns out that there are a lot of airplanes there.  
>> 
>> This album is fighters, attack planes, trainers, observation & recon and 
>> related.  
>> 
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72177720310220971
>> 
>> We did luck out and the skies cooperated, so some of the photos actually 
>> turned out pretty nice.
>> 
>> I had my 18-270 on the K-3iii and my Irix 11/4 on my K-1.  In retrospect I 
>> would have been better off with the 15-30 on the K-1, though it was rather 
>> fun shooting with the superwide and just needing to remember to adjust the 
>> hyperfocal distance. 
>> 
>> In honor of Dan, I started off with the F4s.  
>> 
>> I was able to ID most of the planes in this album.  Some unidentified ones 
>> are:
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090853715/in/album-72177720310220971/
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090454441/in/album-72177720310220971/
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090639979/in/album-72177720310220971/
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090640614/in/album-72177720310220971/
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53089892077/in/album-72177720310220971/
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090950523/in/album-72177720310220971/
>> 
>> I hope that you enjoy them.
>> --
>> Larry Colen
>> l...@red4est.com.   sent from Mirkwood
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and 
>> follow the directions.
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> 

--
Larry Colen
l...@red4est.com.   sent from Mirkwood


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Re: GESO March recon vol. 1

2023-08-03 Thread mike wilson
614 is a Mig 27

The rest seem likely to be trainers, including the twin engined one.
> On 03/08/2023 08:53 Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
>  
> Last weekend my friend Candice and visited the museum at March Air Base. 
> Since it's only a few miles away, I treated it as a recon run and tried to 
> get a couple photos of each plane, just to catalog them for my reference.  It 
> turns out that there are a lot of airplanes there.  
> 
> This album is fighters, attack planes, trainers, observation & recon and 
> related.  
> 
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72177720310220971
> 
> We did luck out and the skies cooperated, so some of the photos actually 
> turned out pretty nice.
> 
> I had my 18-270 on the K-3iii and my Irix 11/4 on my K-1.  In retrospect I 
> would have been better off with the 15-30 on the K-1, though it was rather 
> fun shooting with the superwide and just needing to remember to adjust the 
> hyperfocal distance. 
> 
> In honor of Dan, I started off with the F4s.  
> 
> I was able to ID most of the planes in this album.  Some unidentified ones 
> are:
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090853715/in/album-72177720310220971/
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090454441/in/album-72177720310220971/
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090639979/in/album-72177720310220971/
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090640614/in/album-72177720310220971/
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53089892077/in/album-72177720310220971/
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090950523/in/album-72177720310220971/
> 
> I hope that you enjoy them.
> --
> Larry Colen
> l...@red4est.com.   sent from Mirkwood
> 
> 
> --
> %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow 
> the directions.
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GESO March recon vol. 1

2023-08-03 Thread Larry Colen


Last weekend my friend Candice and visited the museum at March Air Base. Since 
it's only a few miles away, I treated it as a recon run and tried to get a 
couple photos of each plane, just to catalog them for my reference.  It turns 
out that there are a lot of airplanes there.  

This album is fighters, attack planes, trainers, observation & recon and 
related.  

https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72177720310220971

We did luck out and the skies cooperated, so some of the photos actually turned 
out pretty nice.

I had my 18-270 on the K-3iii and my Irix 11/4 on my K-1.  In retrospect I 
would have been better off with the 15-30 on the K-1, though it was rather fun 
shooting with the superwide and just needing to remember to adjust the 
hyperfocal distance. 

In honor of Dan, I started off with the F4s.  

I was able to ID most of the planes in this album.  Some unidentified ones are:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090853715/in/album-72177720310220971/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090454441/in/album-72177720310220971/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090639979/in/album-72177720310220971/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090640614/in/album-72177720310220971/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53089892077/in/album-72177720310220971/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/53090950523/in/album-72177720310220971/

I hope that you enjoy them.
--
Larry Colen
l...@red4est.com.   sent from Mirkwood


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