Re: Pixel shift observation

2017-09-27 Thread Zos Xavius 
Oh dear. Please no. Not here.

On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 2:09 PM, Paul Sorenson  wrote:
> They're quickly picked and brought inside for consumption...
>
>
>
> On 9/27/2017 11:39 AM, Jostein wrote:
>>
>> I hear there used to be a lot more of them on the lawn outside the white
>> house. :-D
>>
>> Jostein
>>
>> Den 26.09.2017 19:23, skrev Collin Brendemuehl:
>>>
>>> I hear that in some areas of the country mushrooms also disappear rather
>>> quickly.
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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Re: Pixel shift observation

2017-09-27 Thread Paul Sorenson 

They're quickly picked and brought inside for consumption...


On 9/27/2017 11:39 AM, Jostein wrote:
I hear there used to be a lot more of them on the lawn outside the 
white house. :-D


Jostein

Den 26.09.2017 19:23, skrev Collin Brendemuehl:

I hear that in some areas of the country mushrooms also disappear rather
quickly.







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Re: Pixel shift observation

2017-09-27 Thread Jostein 
I hear there used to be a lot more of them on the lawn outside the white 
house. :-D


Jostein

Den 26.09.2017 19:23, skrev Collin Brendemuehl:

I hear that in some areas of the country mushrooms also disappear rather
quickly.




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Re: Pixel shift observation

2017-09-27 Thread Zos Xavius 
Especially the magic kind. :)

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 1:23 PM, Collin Brendemuehl
 wrote:
> I hear that in some areas of the country mushrooms also disappear rather
> quickly.
>
>
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Re: Pixel shift observation

2017-09-26 Thread Collin Brendemuehl 
I hear that in some areas of the country mushrooms also disappear rather
quickly.


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Re: Pixel shift observation

2017-09-26 Thread Mark C 
There is a Wikipedia article on rolling shutter effect covers it pretty 
well. You can also see it on the Q series when using a lens without a 
leaf shutter, like a K mount lens on a simple adapter. since the Q 
defaults to an electronic shutter for lenses without leaf shutters.


I tried several brands of LED's and stumbled into a brand called Living 
Solutions that produced no banding. I tried a handful of other brands 
but those all produced banding, as did incandescent and CFL bulbs.


The shutter speed does have an effect on it - see this post:

http://www.markcassino.com/b2evolution/index.php/pentax-k-1-banding?blog=9

Mark

Jostein wrote:
LOL well I hardly expected the first to figure it out. How nice that 
Pentax has evolved the feature in K-1.
I'm too new to the method to actually be able to recognise what the 
rolling shutter issue is about, I think. I use some el cheapo LED 
lights from IKEA (Like this one: 
http://www.ikea.com/no/no/catalog/products/60309355/ ). But I have a 
Manfrotto Micropro2 too that I can test.


Jostein

Den 25.09.2017 01:21, skrev Mark C:
You can also set the K1 to use an electronic shutter in live view 
mode, no pixel shift.


With the camera set to 3 second delay and electronic shutter, you can 
minimize any kind of shutter shake almost as effectively as using 
flash and minimizing / eliminating ambient light. But I found that 
many artificial light sources create some degree of banding due to 
the rolling shutter effect of the electronic shutter. LED, Tungsten 
and compact fluorescent  bulbs all produce it. I finally found a 
brand of LED's that does not produce noticeable banding by trial and 
error.


Aside from banding the problem with ambient light is that there can 
be a surprising amount of movement in subjects due to minor air 
currents or vibration.


Mark

Jostein wrote:
Eerily quiet from the List, so here's to check the throughput of the 
transatlantic fibreoptics and whatnot.


In my enduring foray into extreme macro, I always come up at 
vibration as the ultimate limiting factor to sharpness. Good camera 
fundament is a must. Flash is a necessary evil. Mirror lockup is an 
indulgence for vibrations in the sincerest catholic sense of the word.


But the shutter's guilliotine movement is hard to circumvent. Some 
macro photographers like John Hallmén of Flickr fame 
(https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnhallmen/), switched from a Canon 
DSLR to a Sony mirrorless for studio work for that reason.


In the Pentax lineup, this issue makes the Q7 a very attractive 
alternative, at least when megapixel cravings can be curbed.


However, one genious little thing about the Pixel Shift feature in 
the K-3ii, K-1 and K-P, is that it does use an electronic shutter. 
Combined with mirror lockup, the camera will flip up the mirror 
_and_ open the shutter on the first press of the shutter button, and 
then start the exposure on the next.


Geeky, I admit, but I thought that was neat. :-)

Negates the use of flash, though. :-(

Carry on. :-)

Jostein




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Re: Pixel shift observation

2017-09-25 Thread Jostein 

If you're hungry, they grow real slow.
Jostein

Den 25.09.2017 23:18, skrev Zos Xavius:

I bet they could image them now in real time. Mushrooms do grow
astoundingly fast. Just watch some time-lapses sometime.

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 2:23 AM, David Mann  wrote:

On Sep 25, 2017, at 12:21 PM, Mark C  wrote:


Aside from banding the problem with ambient light is that there can be a 
surprising amount of movement in subjects due to minor air currents or 
vibration.


Many moons ago I visited a lab that produced holograms.  They said mushrooms 
grow too fast to be imaged without using a high-power pulse laser (which they 
didn't have).  Speaking across the optical table was avoided due to the 
vibrations.  It only would have taken a few tens of nanometres to cause 
problems.

Cheers,
Dave


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Re: Pixel shift observation

2017-09-25 Thread Zos Xavius 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTSkRIw1m60

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 2:23 AM, David Mann  wrote:
> On Sep 25, 2017, at 12:21 PM, Mark C  wrote:
>
>> Aside from banding the problem with ambient light is that there can be a 
>> surprising amount of movement in subjects due to minor air currents or 
>> vibration.
>
> Many moons ago I visited a lab that produced holograms.  They said mushrooms 
> grow too fast to be imaged without using a high-power pulse laser (which they 
> didn't have).  Speaking across the optical table was avoided due to the 
> vibrations.  It only would have taken a few tens of nanometres to cause 
> problems.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
>
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Re: Pixel shift observation

2017-09-25 Thread Zos Xavius 
I bet they could image them now in real time. Mushrooms do grow
astoundingly fast. Just watch some time-lapses sometime.

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 2:23 AM, David Mann  wrote:
> On Sep 25, 2017, at 12:21 PM, Mark C  wrote:
>
>> Aside from banding the problem with ambient light is that there can be a 
>> surprising amount of movement in subjects due to minor air currents or 
>> vibration.
>
> Many moons ago I visited a lab that produced holograms.  They said mushrooms 
> grow too fast to be imaged without using a high-power pulse laser (which they 
> didn't have).  Speaking across the optical table was avoided due to the 
> vibrations.  It only would have taken a few tens of nanometres to cause 
> problems.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave
>
>
> --
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> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
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Re: Pixel shift observation

2017-09-25 Thread Jostein 
I definitely see the point. At 10X the DOF is like, 2-3 µm. Vibrations 
of just half of that would cause significant blur.

Jostein

Den 25.09.2017 08:23, skrev David Mann:

On Sep 25, 2017, at 12:21 PM, Mark C  wrote:


Aside from banding the problem with ambient light is that there can be a 
surprising amount of movement in subjects due to minor air currents or 
vibration.


Many moons ago I visited a lab that produced holograms.  They said mushrooms 
grow too fast to be imaged without using a high-power pulse laser (which they 
didn't have).  Speaking across the optical table was avoided due to the 
vibrations.  It only would have taken a few tens of nanometres to cause 
problems.

Cheers,
Dave




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Re: Pixel shift observation

2017-09-25 Thread Jostein 
LOL well I hardly expected the first to figure it out. How nice that 
Pentax has evolved the feature in K-1.
I'm too new to the method to actually be able to recognise what the 
rolling shutter issue is about, I think. I use some el cheapo LED lights 
from IKEA (Like this one: 
http://www.ikea.com/no/no/catalog/products/60309355/ ). But I have a 
Manfrotto Micropro2 too that I can test.


Jostein

Den 25.09.2017 01:21, skrev Mark C:
You can also set the K1 to use an electronic shutter in live view mode, 
no pixel shift.


With the camera set to 3 second delay and electronic shutter, you can 
minimize any kind of shutter shake almost as effectively as using flash 
and minimizing / eliminating ambient light. But I found that many 
artificial light sources create some degree of banding due to the 
rolling shutter effect of the electronic shutter. LED, Tungsten and 
compact fluorescent  bulbs all produce it. I finally found a brand of 
LED's that does not produce noticeable banding by trial and error.


Aside from banding the problem with ambient light is that there can be a 
surprising amount of movement in subjects due to minor air currents or 
vibration.


Mark

Jostein wrote:
Eerily quiet from the List, so here's to check the throughput of the 
transatlantic fibreoptics and whatnot.


In my enduring foray into extreme macro, I always come up at vibration 
as the ultimate limiting factor to sharpness. Good camera fundament is 
a must. Flash is a necessary evil. Mirror lockup is an indulgence for 
vibrations in the sincerest catholic sense of the word.


But the shutter's guilliotine movement is hard to circumvent. Some 
macro photographers like John Hallmén of Flickr fame 
(https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnhallmen/), switched from a Canon 
DSLR to a Sony mirrorless for studio work for that reason.


In the Pentax lineup, this issue makes the Q7 a very attractive 
alternative, at least when megapixel cravings can be curbed.


However, one genious little thing about the Pixel Shift feature in the 
K-3ii, K-1 and K-P, is that it does use an electronic shutter. 
Combined with mirror lockup, the camera will flip up the mirror _and_ 
open the shutter on the first press of the shutter button, and then 
start the exposure on the next.


Geeky, I admit, but I thought that was neat. :-)

Negates the use of flash, though. :-(

Carry on. :-)

Jostein




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Re: Pixel shift observation

2017-09-25 Thread David Mann 
On Sep 25, 2017, at 12:21 PM, Mark C  wrote:

> Aside from banding the problem with ambient light is that there can be a 
> surprising amount of movement in subjects due to minor air currents or 
> vibration.

Many moons ago I visited a lab that produced holograms.  They said mushrooms 
grow too fast to be imaged without using a high-power pulse laser (which they 
didn't have).  Speaking across the optical table was avoided due to the 
vibrations.  It only would have taken a few tens of nanometres to cause 
problems.

Cheers,
Dave


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Re: Pixel shift observation

2017-09-24 Thread Mark C 
You can also set the K1 to use an electronic shutter in live view mode, 
no pixel shift.


With the camera set to 3 second delay and electronic shutter, you can 
minimize any kind of shutter shake almost as effectively as using flash 
and minimizing / eliminating ambient light. But I found that many 
artificial light sources create some degree of banding due to the 
rolling shutter effect of the electronic shutter. LED, Tungsten and 
compact fluorescent  bulbs all produce it. I finally found a brand of 
LED's that does not produce noticeable banding by trial and error.


Aside from banding the problem with ambient light is that there can be a 
surprising amount of movement in subjects due to minor air currents or 
vibration.


Mark

Jostein wrote:
Eerily quiet from the List, so here's to check the throughput of the 
transatlantic fibreoptics and whatnot.


In my enduring foray into extreme macro, I always come up at vibration 
as the ultimate limiting factor to sharpness. Good camera fundament is 
a must. Flash is a necessary evil. Mirror lockup is an indulgence for 
vibrations in the sincerest catholic sense of the word.


But the shutter's guilliotine movement is hard to circumvent. Some 
macro photographers like John Hallmén of Flickr fame 
(https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnhallmen/), switched from a Canon 
DSLR to a Sony mirrorless for studio work for that reason.


In the Pentax lineup, this issue makes the Q7 a very attractive 
alternative, at least when megapixel cravings can be curbed.


However, one genious little thing about the Pixel Shift feature in the 
K-3ii, K-1 and K-P, is that it does use an electronic shutter. 
Combined with mirror lockup, the camera will flip up the mirror _and_ 
open the shutter on the first press of the shutter button, and then 
start the exposure on the next.


Geeky, I admit, but I thought that was neat. :-)

Negates the use of flash, though. :-(

Carry on. :-)

Jostein




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Re: Pixel shift observation

2017-09-24 Thread P. J. Alling 
Hey, I posted my latest story of equipment destruction, no one commented 
on that.  Heck, I thought it was funny.



On 9/24/2017 4:51 AM, Jostein wrote:
Eerily quiet from the List, so here's to check the throughput of the 
transatlantic fibreoptics and whatnot.


In my enduring foray into extreme macro, I always come up at vibration 
as the ultimate limiting factor to sharpness. Good camera fundament is 
a must. Flash is a necessary evil. Mirror lockup is an indulgence for 
vibrations in the sincerest catholic sense of the word.


But the shutter's guilliotine movement is hard to circumvent. Some 
macro photographers like John Hallmén of Flickr fame 
(https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnhallmen/), switched from a Canon 
DSLR to a Sony mirrorless for studio work for that reason.


In the Pentax lineup, this issue makes the Q7 a very attractive 
alternative, at least when megapixel cravings can be curbed.


However, one genious little thing about the Pixel Shift feature in the 
K-3ii, K-1 and K-P, is that it does use an electronic shutter. 
Combined with mirror lockup, the camera will flip up the mirror _and_ 
open the shutter on the first press of the shutter button, and then 
start the exposure on the next.


Geeky, I admit, but I thought that was neat. :-)

Negates the use of flash, though. :-(

Carry on. :-)

Jostein



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America was founded so we could all be anything we damn well please.
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Pixel shift observation

2017-09-24 Thread Jostein 
Eerily quiet from the List, so here's to check the throughput of the 
transatlantic fibreoptics and whatnot.


In my enduring foray into extreme macro, I always come up at vibration 
as the ultimate limiting factor to sharpness. Good camera fundament is a 
must. Flash is a necessary evil. Mirror lockup is an indulgence for 
vibrations in the sincerest catholic sense of the word.


But the shutter's guilliotine movement is hard to circumvent. Some macro 
photographers like John Hallmén of Flickr fame 
(https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnhallmen/), switched from a Canon DSLR 
to a Sony mirrorless for studio work for that reason.


In the Pentax lineup, this issue makes the Q7 a very attractive 
alternative, at least when megapixel cravings can be curbed.


However, one genious little thing about the Pixel Shift feature in the 
K-3ii, K-1 and K-P, is that it does use an electronic shutter. Combined 
with mirror lockup, the camera will flip up the mirror _and_ open the 
shutter on the first press of the shutter button, and then start the 
exposure on the next.


Geeky, I admit, but I thought that was neat. :-)

Negates the use of flash, though. :-(

Carry on. :-)

Jostein

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