Re: Video review - K3iii
So if it's not exactly IR but like IR .. I'm taking a trip back in my mind to 24-pin dot matrix printers. "Near Letter Quality" Or, how to sell something by admitting that it's not quite what we think it needs to be. Next they'll be saying "Near IR Quality" or something like that. My 2 cents, Collin -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Video review - K3iii
On Sat, 29 May 2021 07:23:41 +0530 Subash Jeyan wrote: > On Fri, 28 May 2021 16:04:05 -0400 > John wrote: > > > I wonder if you could emulate the IR filter similar to how the K3 > > emulates an anti-aliasing filter? (I think that AA filter emulation > > feature first appeared in the K-3) > > k5iis... you are right. it did appear in the k3 first. > > I.E. remove the physical IR filter from the camera and have the > > firmware/software "filter" the IR for "normal" photography & turn > > the "filter" off when you wanted to do IR? > > > > On 5/27/2021 16:08:38, Ralf R Radermacher wrote: > > > Am 27.05.21 um 18:22 schrieb Bill: > > > > > >> The interesting thing about computers that take pictures is that > > >> the people who write the software can program in the > > >> characteristic curve of, in this case, infrared film... > > > > > > You can't make something out of nothing. Normal DSLRs have a > > > strong anti-IR-filter in front of the sensor. > > > > > > If the infrared light doesn't reach the sensor you can't make it > > > magically reappear using a 'curve'. It will never look like the > > > real thing: > > > > > > https://www.fotocommunity.de/photo/la-bistade-fotoralfbe/32223101 > > > > > > It's like trying to fake stereo out of a mono recording. > > > > > > Ralf > > -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Video review - K3iii
On Fri, 28 May 2021 16:04:05 -0400 John wrote: > I wonder if you could emulate the IR filter similar to how the K3 > emulates an anti-aliasing filter? (I think that AA filter emulation > feature first appeared in the K-3) k5iis... > I.E. remove the physical IR filter from the camera and have the > firmware/software "filter" the IR for "normal" photography & turn the > "filter" off when you wanted to do IR? > > On 5/27/2021 16:08:38, Ralf R Radermacher wrote: > > Am 27.05.21 um 18:22 schrieb Bill: > > > >> The interesting thing about computers that take pictures is that > >> the people who write the software can program in the > >> characteristic curve of, in this case, infrared film... > > > > You can't make something out of nothing. Normal DSLRs have a strong > > anti-IR-filter in front of the sensor. > > > > If the infrared light doesn't reach the sensor you can't make it > > magically reappear using a 'curve'. It will never look like the > > real thing: > > > > https://www.fotocommunity.de/photo/la-bistade-fotoralfbe/32223101 > > > > It's like trying to fake stereo out of a mono recording. > > > > Ralf -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Video review - K3iii
Am 28.05.21 um 22:04 schrieb John: I wonder if you could emulate the IR filter similar to how the K3 emulates an anti-aliasing filter? (I think that AA filter emulation feature first appeared in the K-3) The AA filter emulation is just a bit of carefully controlled blur. Camera sensors are very sensitive to IR. Without the IR blocking filter the sensor would be overexposed by IR light most of the time. That's why they're built in. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Video review - K3iii
I wonder if you could emulate the IR filter similar to how the K3 emulates an anti-aliasing filter? (I think that AA filter emulation feature first appeared in the K-3) I.E. remove the physical IR filter from the camera and have the firmware/software "filter" the IR for "normal" photography & turn the "filter" off when you wanted to do IR? On 5/27/2021 16:08:38, Ralf R Radermacher wrote: Am 27.05.21 um 18:22 schrieb Bill: The interesting thing about computers that take pictures is that the people who write the software can program in the characteristic curve of, in this case, infrared film... You can't make something out of nothing. Normal DSLRs have a strong anti-IR-filter in front of the sensor. If the infrared light doesn't reach the sensor you can't make it magically reappear using a 'curve'. It will never look like the real thing: https://www.fotocommunity.de/photo/la-bistade-fotoralfbe/32223101 It's like trying to fake stereo out of a mono recording. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de -- Science - Questions we may never find answers for. Religion - Answers we must never question. -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Video review - K3iii
Saw that before, didn't think it warranted posting, as it didn't contradict anything that I expected, and, well things like; "Is the IR recording real?"; would be answered by one thing. Can it record IR images in RAW, (and show IR images in live view), with an 87b filter in front of the lens? If it can't it's not recording IR. On 5/27/2021 10:16 AM, Paul Sorenson wrote: https://www.dpreview.com/videos/6159040727/going-out-of-this-world-with-neil-buckland-and-the-pentax-k-3-iii?utm_source=newsletter_medium=email_campaign=2021-may-26_=pe_1822230_585762530_dpr_nl_479_15 -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Video review - K3iii
On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 02:50:28PM -0700, Larry Colen wrote: > > > > On May 27, 2021, at 2:15 PM, Bill wrote: > >> > >> It's like trying to fake stereo out of a mono recording. > >> > > > > Infrared film is effectively making something out of nothing in that it is > > translating something we can't see into something we can see. > > It's not a big leap to think that software can be written to emulate it. > > Oh wait, it already can. > > It's also not a big leap to think it can't be done better than how it was > > before. > > > > bill > > Nope, not how it works. If you leave the lens cap on your camera, no matter > what you to do the processing curves you aren???t going to get a photo. Maybe not. But it's not a great leap of faith to assume that there's a fairly strong correlation between the hues a 'typical' scene produces in an image and the way that scene would affect a hypothetical additional IR sensor. A processor that is capable of tracking 100 AF points in real time and doing face recognition as well isn't likely to have much difficulty doing some kind of prediction of what a fourth sensor might see, then 'rendering' that into something that has the same kind of look as a real IR camera might produce. Just getting concrete, brick, steel, and sky looking right would serve for a lot of 'IR'-ish images. It's not a true rendition, but it may well be at least as close to reality as a whole lot of image renditions that are created in the darkroom. -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Video review - K3iii
On Thu., May 27, 2021, 3:50 p.m. Larry Colen, wrote: > > > > On May 27, 2021, at 2:15 PM, Bill wrote: > >> > >> It's like trying to fake stereo out of a mono recording. > >> > > > > Infrared film is effectively making something out of nothing in that it > is > > translating something we can't see into something we can see. > > It's not a big leap to think that software can be written to emulate it. > > Oh wait, it already can. > > It's also not a big leap to think it can't be done better than how it was > > before. > > > > bill > > Nope, not how it works. If you leave the lens cap on your camera, no > matter what you to do the processing curves you aren’t going to get a photo. > False equivalence. bill > The IR blocking filter does the same, just for light longer than about > 600nm wl. > > > -- > Larry Colen > l...@red4est.com > > > -- > %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List > To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Video review - K3iii
Am 27.05.21 um 23:15 schrieb Bill: Infrared film is effectively making something out of nothing in that it is translating something we can't see into something we can see. The infrared film 'sees' the IR light and turns it into something visible. The DSLR sensor doesn't. It just doesn't look right. It's not a big leap to think that software can be written to emulate it. Just like software can turn a mono recording into some kind of left/right pingpong. May appeal to someone who doesn't know the real thing but will never convince the serious listener. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Video review - K3iii
> On May 27, 2021, at 2:15 PM, Bill wrote: >> >> It's like trying to fake stereo out of a mono recording. >> > > Infrared film is effectively making something out of nothing in that it is > translating something we can't see into something we can see. > It's not a big leap to think that software can be written to emulate it. > Oh wait, it already can. > It's also not a big leap to think it can't be done better than how it was > before. > > bill Nope, not how it works. If you leave the lens cap on your camera, no matter what you to do the processing curves you aren’t going to get a photo. The IR blocking filter does the same, just for light longer than about 600nm wl. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Video review - K3iii
Bill wrote: The interesting thing about computers that take pictures is that the people who write the software can program in the characteristic curve of, in this case, infrared film, and how it translates the invisible to the eye into something visible and have the camera emulate the result from that characteristic curve. The result should be a very accurate facsimile of what IR fm does. The smart person would look at the results with an open mind prior to labeling them "silly". ++ No idea how well it works with these features but I've been mightily impressed so far. I'll certainly try those modes out and see how they perform. Malcolm -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Video review - K3iii
On Thu., May 27, 2021, 2:09 p.m. Ralf R Radermacher, wrote: > Am 27.05.21 um 18:22 schrieb Bill: > > > The interesting thing about computers that take pictures is that the > people > > who write the software can program in the characteristic curve of, in > this > > case, infrared film... > > You can't make something out of nothing. Normal DSLRs have a strong > anti-IR-filter in front of the sensor. > > If the infrared light doesn't reach the sensor you can't make it > magically reappear using a 'curve'. It will never look like the real thing: > > https://www.fotocommunity.de/photo/la-bistade-fotoralfbe/32223101 > > It's like trying to fake stereo out of a mono recording. > Infrared film is effectively making something out of nothing in that it is translating something we can't see into something we can see. It's not a big leap to think that software can be written to emulate it. Oh wait, it already can. It's also not a big leap to think it can't be done better than how it was before. bill > -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Video review - K3iii
Am 27.05.21 um 18:22 schrieb Bill: The interesting thing about computers that take pictures is that the people who write the software can program in the characteristic curve of, in this case, infrared film... You can't make something out of nothing. Normal DSLRs have a strong anti-IR-filter in front of the sensor. If the infrared light doesn't reach the sensor you can't make it magically reappear using a 'curve'. It will never look like the real thing: https://www.fotocommunity.de/photo/la-bistade-fotoralfbe/32223101 It's like trying to fake stereo out of a mono recording. Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Video review - K3iii
> On May 27, 2021, at 9:22 AM, Bill wrote: > > On Thu., May 27, 2021, 8:28 a.m. Toine, wrote: > >> Monochrome and IR mode??? That would be monochrome jpg? And what about >> IR mode, does it really record IR or just some silly IR look a like >> monochrome. If it records real IR I'm sold >> > > The interesting thing about computers that take pictures is that the people > who write the software can program in the characteristic curve of, in this > case, infrared film, and how it translates the invisible to the eye into > something visible and have the camera emulate the result from that > characteristic curve. > > The result should be a very accurate facsimile of what IR fm does. > The smart person would look at the results with an open mind prior to > labeling them "silly”. If I can’t pull out my IR panel lamp in a dark room and get photos, then it doesn’t translate IR like film. The smart person would just do conversion to something that looks like IR film in post processing. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Video review - K3iii
Pfff... I guess your the smart person in this setup. And yes it's silly especially for a $2000 cam. Goodbye everyone -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Video review - K3iii
On Thu., May 27, 2021, 8:28 a.m. Toine, wrote: > Monochrome and IR mode??? That would be monochrome jpg? And what about > IR mode, does it really record IR or just some silly IR look a like > monochrome. If it records real IR I'm sold > The interesting thing about computers that take pictures is that the people who write the software can program in the characteristic curve of, in this case, infrared film, and how it translates the invisible to the eye into something visible and have the camera emulate the result from that characteristic curve. The result should be a very accurate facsimile of what IR fm does. The smart person would look at the results with an open mind prior to labeling them "silly". bill -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Video review - K3iii
Am 27.05.21 um 16:28 schrieb Toine: Monochrome and IR mode??? That would be monochrome jpg? And what about IR mode, does it really record IR or just some silly IR look a like monochrome. If it records real IR I'm sold More like the famous wax crayon and finger paint filters, I suppose... Ralf -- Ralf R. Radermacher - Köln/Cologne, Germany Blog : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf Web : http://www.fotoralf.de -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Video review - K3iii
Monochrome and IR mode??? That would be monochrome jpg? And what about IR mode, does it really record IR or just some silly IR look a like monochrome. If it records real IR I'm sold On Thu, 27 May 2021 at 16:16, Paul Sorenson wrote: > > https://www.dpreview.com/videos/6159040727/going-out-of-this-world-with-neil-buckland-and-the-pentax-k-3-iii?utm_source=newsletter_medium=email_campaign=2021-may-26_=pe_1822230_585762530_dpr_nl_479_15 > > -- > Paul Sorenson > Studio1941 > > Sooner or later "different" scares people. > -- > %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List > To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- %(real_name)s Pentax-Discuss Mail List To unsubscribe send an email to pdml-le...@pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
