Re: False news

2017-10-18 Thread Anthony Farr
But I mea culpa'd in the very next message. A true blue American would
know that a stars-right flag is correct for the starboard side, while
this dinky di Aussie was reacting to a flag that seemed backwards, but
has a logical reason for the superficially apparent, but non-existant
blunder.

regards, Anthony


On 17 October 2017 at 10:26, Eric Weir  wrote:
>
>> On Oct 14, 2017, at 8:47 AM, Anthony Farr  wrote:
>>
>> I'm Australian and saw it in about ten seconds. How many Americans would it
>> have taken before one spotted it. Mike Wilson is English and smelled a rat,
>> though I'm not sure he knows why his BS detectors trembled.
>
> Proof once again that Americans are just not very bright. Certainly not 
> compared to Australians and Brits.
>
> --
> Eric Weir
> Decatur, GA  USA
> eew...@bellsouth.net
>
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> deep.
>
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>
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Re: False news

2017-10-18 Thread Steve Cottrell
On 17/10/17, Larry Colen, discombobulated, unleashed:

>We would have made quite the pair. In 7th grade (72-73) I was about 
>4'8". I probably came up to about your navel at the time.

There were a few girls in a similar situation if I recall...

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Re: False news

2017-10-18 Thread mike wilson
> On 18 October 2017 at 02:58 Stanley Halpin 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > On Oct 17, 2017, at 7:51 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Steve Cottrell wrote:
> >> On 17/10/17, Larry Colen, discombobulated, unleashed:
> >> 
> >>> IIRC Cotty was a year ahead of me in school.  If either of us had lived
> >>> something less than a mile closer to the other we would have gone to the
> >>> same Jr. High School at the same time.
> >> 
> >> Joaquin Miller Jr High.
> >> 
> >> I would have waved hi from the 8th grade lawn ;-)
> > 
> > We would have made quite the pair. In 7th grade (72-73) I was about 4'8". I
> > probably came up to about your navel at the time.
> > 
> 
> I just got to this thread and have read through quickly. Wasn’t it about the
> Air Force? What's this about navies?

The magnificent dodges and swerves of punning thread drift are both one of the
joys of PDML for old hands and, I suspect, why some people last but a fleeting
moment.

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Re: False news

2017-10-17 Thread Stanley Halpin

> On Oct 17, 2017, at 7:51 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Steve Cottrell wrote:
>> On 17/10/17, Larry Colen, discombobulated, unleashed:
>> 
>>> IIRC Cotty was a year ahead of me in school.  If either of us had lived
>>> something less than a mile closer to the other we would have gone to the
>>> same Jr. High School at the same time.
>> 
>> Joaquin Miller Jr High.
>> 
>> I would have waved hi from the 8th grade lawn ;-)
> 
> We would have made quite the pair. In 7th grade (72-73) I was about 4'8". I 
> probably came up to about your navel at the time.
> 

I just got to this thread and have read through quickly. Wasn’t it about the 
Air Force? What's this about navies?


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Re: False news

2017-10-17 Thread Larry Colen



Steve Cottrell wrote:

On 17/10/17, Larry Colen, discombobulated, unleashed:


IIRC Cotty was a year ahead of me in school.  If either of us had lived
something less than a mile closer to the other we would have gone to the
same Jr. High School at the same time.


Joaquin Miller Jr High.

I would have waved hi from the 8th grade lawn ;-)


We would have made quite the pair. In 7th grade (72-73) I was about 
4'8". I probably came up to about your navel at the time.






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Re: False news

2017-10-17 Thread Steve Cottrell
On 17/10/17, Larry Colen, discombobulated, unleashed:

>IIRC Cotty was a year ahead of me in school.  If either of us had lived 
>something less than a mile closer to the other we would have gone to the 
>same Jr. High School at the same time.

Joaquin Miller Jr High.

I would have waved hi from the 8th grade lawn ;-)

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Re: False news

2017-10-17 Thread Larry Colen



Steve Cottrell wrote:

On 17/10/17, Eric Weir, discombobulated, unleashed:


Cool. You say, "school." High school or college?


Made it to the end of my sophomore year at Lynbrook High School


IIRC Cotty was a year ahead of me in school.  If either of us had lived 
something less than a mile closer to the other we would have gone to the 
same Jr. High School at the same time.







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Re: False news

2017-10-17 Thread Steve Cottrell
On 17/10/17, Eric Weir, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Cool. You say, "school." High school or college? 

Made it to the end of my sophomore year at Lynbrook High School

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Re: False news

2017-10-17 Thread John

Speak for yourself.

On 10/16/2017 19:26, Eric Weir wrote:



On Oct 14, 2017, at 8:47 AM, Anthony Farr  wrote:

I'm Australian and saw it in about ten seconds. How many Americans would it
have taken before one spotted it. Mike Wilson is English and smelled a rat,
though I'm not sure he knows why his BS detectors trembled.


Proof once again that Americans are just not very bright. Certainly not 
compared to Australians and Brits.

--
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Re: False news

2017-10-17 Thread John

When painted on the side of ANY vehicle, the US flag is always depicted as if 
streaming in the wind, i.e. with the field towards the front of the vehicle.

Compare the various views shown of left & right sides in Google Images:

http://tinyurl.com/yd4dl6ou

Nothing in the image is flipped. It's *NOT* a composite.

It's a photograph taken by someone who knew the location and knew where to be 
standing with his camera when Air Force One took off to have a high probability 
of getting that framing.

On 10/14/2017 08:47, Anthony Farr wrote:

Recently, because of US flag respect/disrespect controversies, I read the
US governments guidelines about the display and handling of the
Stars-and-Stripes, or images of it. One of the requirements was that
representations of the flag should be imaged as if the flagstaff was on the
left, and another was that the starfield should always be on the side
nearest the flagstaff. Therefore the starfield should be on the left of the
flag on Air Force One's vertical stabiliser. Therefore the image of Air
Force One is flipped.
However, the image of the Mandalay Bay Hotel is not flipped, because the
broken windows are in their correct positions.
Therefore, the picture is a composite of a true picture of the hotel and a
reversed picture of Air Force One.
I'm Australian and saw it in about ten seconds. How many Americans would it
have taken before one spotted it. Mike Wilson is English and smelled a rat,
though I'm not sure he knows why his BS detectors trembled.

regards, Anthony

On 14 October 2017 at 08:31, mike wilson  wrote:


So it looks like the picture is possible after all.  I was somethat thrown
by
the caption, which, as in the article Larry found, says something like "AF1
flies past the broken windows"  Clearly, it is flying behind the whole
hotel.


On 13 October 2017 at 22:18 John  wrote:


I also found this regarding "right turn" departures from McCarran
International Airport.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/effort-to-change-flights-on-brink/


On 10/13/2017 13:59, mike wilson wrote:

On 13 October 2017 at 17:31 John  wrote:


More likely it would be a right turn departing runway 25R.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KLAS

Runway 7L/25R (the Airnav sheet has it as 8L/26R) is the longest

runway at

McCarran. Traffic departing 25R should normally go straight ahead or

turn

right.


It says traffic pattern _left_ which I would expect - away from high
population
areas.  If you do turn right I would expect a very high rate of climb,
making
the pictures less possible again.  Although, as I wrote earlier,

traffic

rules
may not aply to AF1.  Some planes are more equal than others, it seems.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airfield_traffic_pattern

You could get that angle of view standing near the Las Vegas Village
concert
venue's Gate #5 on Giles St and have a pretty good chance that Air

Force

One
would be departing in that direction.

36.095449, -115.170635








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Re: False news

2017-10-17 Thread Eric Weir

> On Oct 17, 2017, at 9:09 AM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> 
> On 17/10/17, ATT, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>> But seriously, did you really?
> 
> Yes indeed. Went to school a short distance away from Larry. I was in north 
> America from 1964 through 1976, the latter 10 years of which were in Santa 
> Clara.

Cool. You say, “school.” High school or college? Or both?

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Re: False news

2017-10-17 Thread Steve Cottrell
On 17/10/17, John Francis, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Cotty and I swapped countries (I pretty much left the UK in 1978, and got to
>the Us in 1980 with a year-long stopover in New Zealand).  But it took me
>another 15 years to get to California - I got delayed for a while in New
>England.

>From hipster to hippy ;-)

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Re: False news

2017-10-17 Thread John Francis

Cotty and I swapped countries (I pretty much left the UK in 1978, and got to
the Us in 1980 with a year-long stopover in New Zealand).  But it took me
another 15 years to get to California - I got delayed for a while in New 
England.

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 09:15:33AM -0400, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:
> Steve said:  "Yes indeed. Went to school a short distance away from Larry.
> I was in north America from 1964 through 1976, the latter 10 years of which
> were in Santa Clara."
> 
> Oh, you were in Kalifornia.  That's not exactly "America" by the standards
> of the other states.
> 
> Dan Matyola
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
> 
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 9:09 AM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> 
> > On 17/10/17, ATT, discombobulated, unleashed:
> >
> > >But seriously, did you really?
> >
> > Yes indeed. Went to school a short distance away from Larry. I was in
> > north America from 1964 through 1976, the latter 10 years of which were in
> > Santa Clara.
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >   Cotty
> >
> >
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Re: False news

2017-10-17 Thread William Robb
On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 7:16 AM Daniel J. Matyola 
wrote:

> Steve said:  "Yes indeed. Went to school a short distance away from Larry.
> I was in north America from 1964 through 1976, the latter 10 years of which
> were in Santa Clara."
>
> Oh, you were in Kalifornia.  That's not exactly "America" by the standards
> of the other states.
>

Yup. California isn’t trying to take the USA back to the 1950s.
Lynched any Negros lately?

>
> Dan Matyola
> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
>
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 9:09 AM, Steve Cottrell 
> wrote:
>
> > On 17/10/17, ATT, discombobulated, unleashed:
> >
> > >But seriously, did you really?
> >
> > Yes indeed. Went to school a short distance away from Larry. I was in
> > north America from 1964 through 1976, the latter 10 years of which were
> in
> > Santa Clara.
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >   Cotty
> >
> >
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Re: False news

2017-10-17 Thread Eric Weir

> On Oct 17, 2017, at 9:15 AM, Daniel J. Matyola  wrote:
> 
> Oh, you were in Kalifornia.  That's not exactly "America" by the standards
> of the other states.

Truer to America than you know who and where. 

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before we can raise the possibility of error.” 

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Re: False news

2017-10-17 Thread Daniel J. Matyola
Steve said:  "Yes indeed. Went to school a short distance away from Larry.
I was in north America from 1964 through 1976, the latter 10 years of which
were in Santa Clara."

Oh, you were in Kalifornia.  That's not exactly "America" by the standards
of the other states.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 9:09 AM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:

> On 17/10/17, ATT, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
> >But seriously, did you really?
>
> Yes indeed. Went to school a short distance away from Larry. I was in
> north America from 1964 through 1976, the latter 10 years of which were in
> Santa Clara.
>
> --
>
>
> Cheers,
>   Cotty
>
>
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Re: False news

2017-10-17 Thread Steve Cottrell
On 17/10/17, ATT, discombobulated, unleashed:

>But seriously, did you really?

Yes indeed. Went to school a short distance away from Larry. I was in north 
America from 1964 through 1976, the latter 10 years of which were in Santa 
Clara.

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Re: False news

2017-10-17 Thread ATT


> On Oct 17, 2017, at 5:47 AM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> 
> On 16/10/17, Eric Weir, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>> Proof once again that Americans are just not very bright. Certainly not
>> compared to Australians and Brits. 
> 
> Hey my caveat is that I grew up in the USA. That should count for something 
> surely.

Wow! And yet you thrived. Amazing.

But seriously, did you really?

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Re: False news

2017-10-17 Thread ATT


> On Oct 17, 2017, at 5:47 AM, Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> 
> On 16/10/17, Eric Weir, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
>> Proof once again that Americans are just not very bright. Certainly not
>> compared to Australians and Brits. 
> 
> Hey my caveat is that I grew up in the USA. That should count for something 
> surely.

Wow! And yet you thrived. Amazing.

But seriously, did you really?

Regards,

Eric

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Re: False news

2017-10-17 Thread Steve Cottrell
On 16/10/17, Eric Weir, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Proof once again that Americans are just not very bright. Certainly not
>compared to Australians and Brits. 

Hey my caveat is that I grew up in the USA. That should count for something 
surely.

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Re: False news

2017-10-16 Thread Eric Weir

> On Oct 14, 2017, at 8:47 AM, Anthony Farr  wrote:
> 
> I'm Australian and saw it in about ten seconds. How many Americans would it
> have taken before one spotted it. Mike Wilson is English and smelled a rat,
> though I'm not sure he knows why his BS detectors trembled.

Proof once again that Americans are just not very bright. Certainly not 
compared to Australians and Brits. 

--
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Re: False news

2017-10-16 Thread Igor PDML-StR


What I was confused by are two things:
1. That building corner "flattened"  looks too flat. But maybe that's 
due to the compression by the long lens used.


2. The sape of the broken window on the left.
If you compare photos #3 and #4 here:
http://www.businessinsider.com/las-vegas-shooting-mandalay-bay-photos-windows-smashed-2017-10
apparently, it looks the shape is the same as in #3, but not as in #4 (and 
#1), - i.e. it doesn't have the "side" tail.
But if you click on #2 to zoom in, - you can see that that 
triangular "tail" is created by a curtain or something like that.


PS. Here is how the window was replaced:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgknEkicjIg

Igor



Paul Stenquist Thu, 12 Oct 2017 18:13:58 -0700 wrote:

Yep. Still broken when the photo was taken.

Paul via phone



On Oct 12, 2017, at 9:08 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:



Paul Stenquist wrote:

The windows have already been replaced, according to news reports.


Ann asked about the article:
https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/trump-visits-las-vegas-idUSRTS1F5J0

The caption for the photo says:
Air Force One departs Las Vegas past the broken windows on the Mandalay Bay
hotel, where shooter Stephen Paddock conducted his mass shooting along the
Las Vegas Strip in Las Vegas, Nevada. REUTERS/Mike Blake



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Re: False news

2017-10-14 Thread ann sanfedele
and I didn't even know it -was- Air Force One - all the stuff on the 
plane is blurry
what bothered me most was the size of the plane and it's proximity to 
the building

and what I already said to mike :-)

But if you showed me a photo of Air force one on the ground, without a 
POTUS emerging

from it, all I'd see is "big air plane"

ann


I
On 10/14/2017 8:47 AM, Anthony Farr wrote:

Recently, because of US flag respect/disrespect controversies, I read the
US governments guidelines about the display and handling of the
Stars-and-Stripes, or images of it. One of the requirements was that
representations of the flag should be imaged as if the flagstaff was on the
left, and another was that the starfield should always be on the side
nearest the flagstaff. Therefore the starfield should be on the left of the
flag on Air Force One's vertical stabiliser. Therefore the image of Air
Force One is flipped.
However, the image of the Mandalay Bay Hotel is not flipped, because the
broken windows are in their correct positions.
Therefore, the picture is a composite of a true picture of the hotel and a
reversed picture of Air Force One.
I'm Australian and saw it in about ten seconds. How many Americans would it
have taken before one spotted it. Mike Wilson is English and smelled a rat,
though I'm not sure he knows why his BS detectors trembled.

regards, Anthony

On 14 October 2017 at 08:31, mike wilson  wrote:


So it looks like the picture is possible after all.  I was somethat thrown
by
the caption, which, as in the article Larry found, says something like "AF1
flies past the broken windows"  Clearly, it is flying behind the whole
hotel.


On 13 October 2017 at 22:18 John  wrote:


I also found this regarding "right turn" departures from McCarran
International Airport.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/effort-to-change-flights-on-brink/


On 10/13/2017 13:59, mike wilson wrote:

On 13 October 2017 at 17:31 John  wrote:


More likely it would be a right turn departing runway 25R.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KLAS

Runway 7L/25R (the Airnav sheet has it as 8L/26R) is the longest

runway at

McCarran. Traffic departing 25R should normally go straight ahead or

turn

right.

It says traffic pattern _left_ which I would expect - away from high
population
areas.  If you do turn right I would expect a very high rate of climb,
making
the pictures less possible again.  Although, as I wrote earlier,

traffic

rules
may not aply to AF1.  Some planes are more equal than others, it seems.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airfield_traffic_pattern

You could get that angle of view standing near the Las Vegas Village
concert
venue's Gate #5 on Giles St and have a pretty good chance that Air

Force

One
would be departing in that direction.

36.095449, -115.170635



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Re: False news

2017-10-14 Thread mike wilson
> On 14 October 2017 at 14:31 Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 14/10/17, Anthony Farr, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
> >Well, I just checked images of Air Force One, and it does indeed display
> >the flag stars to the right on the starboard side. It must be an exception
> >to the protocol so that the flag "flutters" behind the imaginary flagstaff
> >in the correct direction of travel.
> >Disregard my previous comment, sigh
> 
> I'm surprised Trump's not repealed the flag fluttering direction.
> 
> Or the wind for that matter.

As a representation of a flag fluttering in the wind, it's clearly suffering
from false wind and therefore entirely in keeping with Tweety's modus operandi.

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Re: False news

2017-10-14 Thread Steve Cottrell
On 14/10/17, Anthony Farr, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Well, I just checked images of Air Force One, and it does indeed display
>the flag stars to the right on the starboard side. It must be an exception
>to the protocol so that the flag "flutters" behind the imaginary flagstaff
>in the correct direction of travel.
>Disregard my previous comment, sigh

I'm surprised Trump's not repealed the flag fluttering direction.

Or the wind for that matter.

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Re: False news

2017-10-14 Thread Anthony Farr
Well, I just checked images of Air Force One, and it does indeed display
the flag stars to the right on the starboard side. It must be an exception
to the protocol so that the flag "flutters" behind the imaginary flagstaff
in the correct direction of travel.
Disregard my previous comment, sigh

regards, Anthony

On 14 October 2017 at 23:47, Anthony Farr  wrote:

> Recently, because of US flag respect/disrespect controversies, I read the
> US governments guidelines about the display and handling of the
> Stars-and-Stripes, or images of it. One of the requirements was that
> representations of the flag should be imaged as if the flagstaff was on the
> left, and another was that the starfield should always be on the side
> nearest the flagstaff. Therefore the starfield should be on the left of the
> flag on Air Force One's vertical stabiliser. Therefore the image of Air
> Force One is flipped.
> However, the image of the Mandalay Bay Hotel is not flipped, because the
> broken windows are in their correct positions.
> Therefore, the picture is a composite of a true picture of the hotel and a
> reversed picture of Air Force One.
> I'm Australian and saw it in about ten seconds. How many Americans would
> it have taken before one spotted it. Mike Wilson is English and smelled a
> rat, though I'm not sure he knows why his BS detectors trembled.
>
> regards, Anthony
>
> On 14 October 2017 at 08:31, mike wilson  wrote:
>
>> So it looks like the picture is possible after all.  I was somethat
>> thrown by
>> the caption, which, as in the article Larry found, says something like
>> "AF1
>> flies past the broken windows"  Clearly, it is flying behind the whole
>> hotel.
>>
>> > On 13 October 2017 at 22:18 John  wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > I also found this regarding "right turn" departures from McCarran
>> > International Airport.
>> >
>> > https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/effort-to-change-flights-on-brink/
>> >
>> >
>> > On 10/13/2017 13:59, mike wilson wrote:
>> > >> On 13 October 2017 at 17:31 John  wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> More likely it would be a right turn departing runway 25R.
>> > >>
>> > >> http://www.airnav.com/airport/KLAS
>> > >>
>> > >> Runway 7L/25R (the Airnav sheet has it as 8L/26R) is the longest
>> runway at
>> > >> McCarran. Traffic departing 25R should normally go straight ahead or
>> turn
>> > >> right.
>> > >
>> > > It says traffic pattern _left_ which I would expect - away from high
>> > > population
>> > > areas.  If you do turn right I would expect a very high rate of climb,
>> > > making
>> > > the pictures less possible again.  Although, as I wrote earlier,
>> traffic
>> > > rules
>> > > may not aply to AF1.  Some planes are more equal than others, it
>> seems.
>> > >
>> > >>
>> > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airfield_traffic_pattern
>> > >>
>> > >> You could get that angle of view standing near the Las Vegas Village
>> > >> concert
>> > >> venue's Gate #5 on Giles St and have a pretty good chance that Air
>> Force
>> > >> One
>> > >> would be departing in that direction.
>> > >>
>> > >> 36.095449, -115.170635
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> >
>> > --
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Re: False news

2017-10-14 Thread Anthony Farr
Recently, because of US flag respect/disrespect controversies, I read the
US governments guidelines about the display and handling of the
Stars-and-Stripes, or images of it. One of the requirements was that
representations of the flag should be imaged as if the flagstaff was on the
left, and another was that the starfield should always be on the side
nearest the flagstaff. Therefore the starfield should be on the left of the
flag on Air Force One's vertical stabiliser. Therefore the image of Air
Force One is flipped.
However, the image of the Mandalay Bay Hotel is not flipped, because the
broken windows are in their correct positions.
Therefore, the picture is a composite of a true picture of the hotel and a
reversed picture of Air Force One.
I'm Australian and saw it in about ten seconds. How many Americans would it
have taken before one spotted it. Mike Wilson is English and smelled a rat,
though I'm not sure he knows why his BS detectors trembled.

regards, Anthony

On 14 October 2017 at 08:31, mike wilson  wrote:

> So it looks like the picture is possible after all.  I was somethat thrown
> by
> the caption, which, as in the article Larry found, says something like "AF1
> flies past the broken windows"  Clearly, it is flying behind the whole
> hotel.
>
> > On 13 October 2017 at 22:18 John  wrote:
> >
> >
> > I also found this regarding "right turn" departures from McCarran
> > International Airport.
> >
> > https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/effort-to-change-flights-on-brink/
> >
> >
> > On 10/13/2017 13:59, mike wilson wrote:
> > >> On 13 October 2017 at 17:31 John  wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> More likely it would be a right turn departing runway 25R.
> > >>
> > >> http://www.airnav.com/airport/KLAS
> > >>
> > >> Runway 7L/25R (the Airnav sheet has it as 8L/26R) is the longest
> runway at
> > >> McCarran. Traffic departing 25R should normally go straight ahead or
> turn
> > >> right.
> > >
> > > It says traffic pattern _left_ which I would expect - away from high
> > > population
> > > areas.  If you do turn right I would expect a very high rate of climb,
> > > making
> > > the pictures less possible again.  Although, as I wrote earlier,
> traffic
> > > rules
> > > may not aply to AF1.  Some planes are more equal than others, it seems.
> > >
> > >>
> > >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airfield_traffic_pattern
> > >>
> > >> You could get that angle of view standing near the Las Vegas Village
> > >> concert
> > >> venue's Gate #5 on Giles St and have a pretty good chance that Air
> Force
> > >> One
> > >> would be departing in that direction.
> > >>
> > >> 36.095449, -115.170635
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> > --
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Re: False news

2017-10-13 Thread mike wilson
So it looks like the picture is possible after all.  I was somethat thrown by
the caption, which, as in the article Larry found, says something like "AF1
flies past the broken windows"  Clearly, it is flying behind the whole
hotel.

> On 13 October 2017 at 22:18 John  wrote:
> 
> 
> I also found this regarding "right turn" departures from McCarran
> International Airport.
> 
> https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/effort-to-change-flights-on-brink/
> 
> 
> On 10/13/2017 13:59, mike wilson wrote:
> >> On 13 October 2017 at 17:31 John  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> More likely it would be a right turn departing runway 25R.
> >>
> >> http://www.airnav.com/airport/KLAS
> >>
> >> Runway 7L/25R (the Airnav sheet has it as 8L/26R) is the longest runway at
> >> McCarran. Traffic departing 25R should normally go straight ahead or turn
> >> right.
> > 
> > It says traffic pattern _left_ which I would expect - away from high
> > population
> > areas.  If you do turn right I would expect a very high rate of climb,
> > making
> > the pictures less possible again.  Although, as I wrote earlier, traffic
> > rules
> > may not aply to AF1.  Some planes are more equal than others, it seems.
> > 
> >>
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airfield_traffic_pattern
> >>
> >> You could get that angle of view standing near the Las Vegas Village
> >> concert
> >> venue's Gate #5 on Giles St and have a pretty good chance that Air Force
> >> One
> >> would be departing in that direction.
> >>
> >> 36.095449, -115.170635
> >>
> >>
> 
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Re: False news

2017-10-13 Thread John

I also found this regarding "right turn" departures from McCarran International 
Airport.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/effort-to-change-flights-on-brink/


On 10/13/2017 13:59, mike wilson wrote:

On 13 October 2017 at 17:31 John  wrote:


More likely it would be a right turn departing runway 25R.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KLAS

Runway 7L/25R (the Airnav sheet has it as 8L/26R) is the longest runway at
McCarran. Traffic departing 25R should normally go straight ahead or turn
right.


It says traffic pattern _left_ which I would expect - away from high population
areas.  If you do turn right I would expect a very high rate of climb, making
the pictures less possible again.  Although, as I wrote earlier, traffic rules
may not aply to AF1.  Some planes are more equal than others, it seems.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airfield_traffic_pattern

You could get that angle of view standing near the Las Vegas Village concert
venue's Gate #5 on Giles St and have a pretty good chance that Air Force One
would be departing in that direction.

36.095449, -115.170635




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Re: False news

2017-10-13 Thread mike wilson
> On 13 October 2017 at 17:31 John  wrote:
> 
> 
> More likely it would be a right turn departing runway 25R.
> 
> http://www.airnav.com/airport/KLAS
> 
> Runway 7L/25R (the Airnav sheet has it as 8L/26R) is the longest runway at
> McCarran. Traffic departing 25R should normally go straight ahead or turn
> right.

It says traffic pattern _left_ which I would expect - away from high population
areas.  If you do turn right I would expect a very high rate of climb, making
the pictures less possible again.  Although, as I wrote earlier, traffic rules
may not aply to AF1.  Some planes are more equal than others, it seems.

> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airfield_traffic_pattern
> 
> You could get that angle of view standing near the Las Vegas Village concert
> venue's Gate #5 on Giles St and have a pretty good chance that Air Force One
> would be departing in that direction.
> 
> 36.095449, -115.170635
> 
> 
> On 10/12/2017 17:19, Larry Colen wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Paul Stenquist wrote:
> >> Photoshopped or not, I don't get the point other than it's Air Force One
> >> and the hotel. Is it meant to imply that Trump dropped this guy off and
> >> told him to kill 58 country music fans, most of whom I would guess are
> >> Trump voters?
> > 
> > The article it's from was about Trump visiting Las Vegas.  It's a photo that
> > captures both Trump and the reason he was in Las Vegas.
> > 
> >>
> >> Paul via phone
> >>
> >>> On Oct 12, 2017, at 4:59 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The plane could not be at that altitude and going -up- in that direction
> >>> given where the hotel is and the airport is.. may be more wrong than
> >>> that..  but it is surely a photoshop paste job.
> > 
> > I'm not so sure of that. I took a look on the map
> > https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mandalay+Bay/@36.0869256,-115.1810502,14.63z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x80c8c5cffb824261:0x97f68a25c5b4ddef!8m2!3d36.0918777!4d-115.175245
> > 
> > and taking off from 1R or 1L could have the plane in that configuration
> > compared to the hotel. A sufficiently long lens could give the compression
> > of perspective that would make the plane seem a lot closer than that.
> > 
> > 
> >>>
> >>> ann
> >>>
>  On 10/12/2017 4:18 PM, mike wilson wrote:
>  What's wrong with this Reuter's pic?
> 
>  https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/8A4C/production/_98140453_hi042190292.jpg

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Re: False news

2017-10-13 Thread John

Reuters is probably more sensitive since they've already been burned a couple 
of times in the 2006 Lebanon War.

On 10/12/2017 19:37, Paul Stenquist wrote:

I see some leaping to conclusions here, but it's not important. I know I 
wouldn't risk faking a photo for the Times. They would pull my credentials 
permanently if I were caught. Don't know what Reuters policy is, but I would 
think it's similar. Of course that doesn't mean someone wouldn't make the 
attempt for a good payday.

Paul via phone


On Oct 12, 2017, at 6:27 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:

Well I did kinda live there for a while so had some advantage

ann


On 10/12/2017 6:14 PM, mike wilson wrote:
On the nail.  The runway is on the same side as the photo was taken so the plane
should be much larger.  Naughty Reuters.


On 12 October 2017 at 21:59 ann sanfedele  wrote:


The plane could not be at that altitude and going -up- in that direction
given where the hotel is and the airport is.. may be more wrong than
that..  but it is surely a photoshop paste job.

ann


On 10/12/2017 4:18 PM, mike wilson wrote:
What's wrong with this Reuter's pic?

https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/8A4C/production/_98140453_hi042190292.jpg



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Re: False news

2017-10-13 Thread John

McCarran International has more than one runway.

On 10/12/2017 18:14, mike wilson wrote:

On the nail.  The runway is on the same side as the photo was taken so the plane
should be much larger.  Naughty Reuters.


On 12 October 2017 at 21:59 ann sanfedele  wrote:


The plane could not be at that altitude and going -up- in that direction
given where the hotel is and the airport is.. may be more wrong than
that..  but it is surely a photoshop paste job.

ann

On 10/12/2017 4:18 PM, mike wilson wrote:

What's wrong with this Reuter's pic?

https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/8A4C/production/_98140453_hi042190292.jpg








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Re: False news

2017-10-13 Thread John

On 10/12/2017 17:29, Larry Colen wrote:



Paul Stenquist wrote:

Okay. So the debate is in regard to whether or not it's photoshopped. Why do we 
care?


There is some aspect of "can we trust the news?", but for me it's mostly 
interesting as a puzzle.  Could that picture have been taken?



Yes. Stand here 36.095449, -115.170635

Focus on that corner of the building and you've got a good chance any aircraft 
departing runway 25R at McCarran International Airport will turn right and be 
framed by the Mandalay Bay hotel as it climbs out.

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Re: False news

2017-10-13 Thread John

More likely it would be a right turn departing runway 25R.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KLAS

Runway 7L/25R (the Airnav sheet has it as 8L/26R) is the longest runway at 
McCarran. Traffic departing 25R should normally go straight ahead or turn right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airfield_traffic_pattern

You could get that angle of view standing near the Las Vegas Village concert 
venue's Gate #5 on Giles St and have a pretty good chance that Air Force One 
would be departing in that direction.

36.095449, -115.170635


On 10/12/2017 17:19, Larry Colen wrote:



Paul Stenquist wrote:

Photoshopped or not, I don't get the point other than it's Air Force One and 
the hotel. Is it meant to imply that Trump dropped this guy off and told him to 
kill 58 country music fans, most of whom I would guess are Trump voters?


The article it's from was about Trump visiting Las Vegas.  It's a photo that 
captures both Trump and the reason he was in Las Vegas.



Paul via phone


On Oct 12, 2017, at 4:59 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:

The plane could not be at that altitude and going -up- in that direction given 
where the hotel is and the airport is.. may be more wrong than that..  but it 
is surely a photoshop paste job.


I'm not so sure of that. I took a look on the map
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mandalay+Bay/@36.0869256,-115.1810502,14.63z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x80c8c5cffb824261:0x97f68a25c5b4ddef!8m2!3d36.0918777!4d-115.175245

and taking off from 1R or 1L could have the plane in that configuration 
compared to the hotel. A sufficiently long lens could give the compression of 
perspective that would make the plane seem a lot closer than that.




ann


On 10/12/2017 4:18 PM, mike wilson wrote:
What's wrong with this Reuter's pic?

https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/8A4C/production/_98140453_hi042190292.jpg



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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread mike wilson
> On 13 October 2017 at 01:33 ann sanfedele  wrote:
> 
> 
> Yeah - kinda what I said... but there is another reason... The planes 
> _usually_ take off to the west, because of the prevailing winds ...
> 
> Mike - where is the article that these photos were in?

It was on the BBC news site.  I can't find the article on a quick search.

> 
> ann
> 
> On 10/12/2017 6:54 PM, John Francis wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 05:29:03PM -0400, Paul Stenquist wrote:
> >> Google maps shows the hotel within a quarter mile or so of the hotel, so
> >> the photo is obviously possible. Take off runways and direction vary from
> >> day to day and even hour to hour depending on wind direction and velocity.
> > The hotel may have been close to the airport, but from the news coverage we
> > learn that the shooter was able to fire rounds that struck fuel storage
> > tanks on the airport. This means the fuel storage would be visible from the
> > side of the hotel with the broken windows.  Air Force One appears to be on
> > the other side of the hotel.  As the hotel is on the Las Vegas strip, and
> > not in the middle of the airport, this strongly suggests that to get such a
> >  photograph isn't actually possible.
> >

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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread mike wilson
> On 13 October 2017 at 00:07 Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> John Francis wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 05:29:03PM -0400, Paul Stenquist wrote:
> >> Google maps shows the hotel within a quarter mile or so of the hotel, so
> >> the photo is obviously possible. Take off runways and direction vary from
> >> day to day and even hour to hour depending on wind direction and velocity.
> >
> > The hotel may have been close to the airport, but from the news coverage we
> > learn that the shooter was able to fire rounds that struck fuel storage
> > tanks on the airport. This means the fuel storage would be visible from the
> > side of the hotel with the broken windows.  Air Force One appears to be on
> > the other side of the hotel.  As the hotel is on the Las Vegas strip, and
> > not in the middle of the airport, this strongly suggests that to get such a
> >  photograph isn't actually possible.
> >
> 
> What if the photo was taken from between the airport and the hotel, and 
> the plane took off from runway 19, flying past the hotel and over the strip?
> 

I wondered about that but a) I think it would be much higher and b) most planes
seem to turn left, away from travelling further over high density population.
 Normal rules may not apply to AF1, of course.

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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread mike wilson
> On 12 October 2017 at 23:27 Steve Cottrell  wrote:
> 
> 
> On 12/10/17, mike wilson, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
> >On the nail.  The runway is on the same side as the photo was taken so
> >the plane
> >should be much larger. 
> 
> Did you not know that a half-scale replica model of Air Force One always flies
> 30 seconds in front of the real Air Force one to act as a decoy in the event
> of a missile strike? And that a half-scale replica of the replica actually
> flies in front of that replica just for show?

No; but I understand the replanned new one will have exceptionally small wings.

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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread Paul Stenquist
Yep. Still broken when the photo was taken. 

Paul via phone

> On Oct 12, 2017, at 9:08 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Paul Stenquist wrote:
>> The windows have already been replaced, according to news reports.
> 
> Ann asked about the article:
> https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/trump-visits-las-vegas-idUSRTS1F5J0
> 
> The caption for the photo says:
> Air Force One departs Las Vegas past the broken windows on the Mandalay Bay 
> hotel, where shooter Stephen Paddock conducted his mass shooting along the 
> Las Vegas Strip in Las Vegas, Nevada. REUTERS/Mike Blake
> 
>> 
>> Paul via phone
>> 
 On Oct 12, 2017, at 6:54 PM, John Francis  wrote:
 
 On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 05:29:03PM -0400, Paul Stenquist wrote:
 Google maps shows the hotel within a quarter mile or so of the hotel, so 
 the photo is obviously possible. Take off runways and direction vary from 
 day to day and even hour to hour depending on wind direction and velocity.
>>> The hotel may have been close to the airport, but from the news coverage we 
>>> learn that the shooter was able to fire rounds that struck fuel storage 
>>> tanks on the airport. This means the fuel storage would be visible from the 
>>> side of the hotel with the broken windows.  Air Force One appears to be on 
>>> the other side of the hotel.  As the hotel is on the Las Vegas strip, and 
>>> not in the middle of the airport, this strongly suggests that to get such a 
>>>  photograph isn't actually possible.
>>> 
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> 
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> 
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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread Larry Colen



Paul Stenquist wrote:

The windows have already been replaced, according to news reports.


Ann asked about the article:
https://www.reuters.com/news/picture/trump-visits-las-vegas-idUSRTS1F5J0

The caption for the photo says:
Air Force One departs Las Vegas past the broken windows on the Mandalay 
Bay hotel, where shooter Stephen Paddock conducted his mass shooting 
along the Las Vegas Strip in Las Vegas, Nevada. REUTERS/Mike Blake




Paul via phone


On Oct 12, 2017, at 6:54 PM, John Francis  wrote:


On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 05:29:03PM -0400, Paul Stenquist wrote:
Google maps shows the hotel within a quarter mile or so of the hotel, so the 
photo is obviously possible. Take off runways and direction vary from day to 
day and even hour to hour depending on wind direction and velocity.

The hotel may have been close to the airport, but from the news coverage we 
learn that the shooter was able to fire rounds that struck fuel storage tanks 
on the airport. This means the fuel storage would be visible from the side of 
the hotel with the broken windows.  Air Force One appears to be on the other 
side of the hotel.  As the hotel is on the Las Vegas strip, and not in the 
middle of the airport, this strongly suggests that to get such a  photograph 
isn't actually possible.

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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread ann sanfedele
Yeah - kinda what I said... but there is another reason... The planes 
_usually_ take off to the west, because of the prevailing winds ...


Mike - where is the article that these photos were in?

ann

On 10/12/2017 6:54 PM, John Francis wrote:

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 05:29:03PM -0400, Paul Stenquist wrote:

Google maps shows the hotel within a quarter mile or so of the hotel, so the 
photo is obviously possible. Take off runways and direction vary from day to 
day and even hour to hour depending on wind direction and velocity.

The hotel may have been close to the airport, but from the news coverage we 
learn that the shooter was able to fire rounds that struck fuel storage tanks 
on the airport. This means the fuel storage would be visible from the side of 
the hotel with the broken windows.  Air Force One appears to be on the other 
side of the hotel.  As the hotel is on the Las Vegas strip, and not in the 
middle of the airport, this strongly suggests that to get such a  photograph 
isn't actually possible.




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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread ann sanfedele

John and I came to same conclusion from slightly  different , um, angles...


OTOH..  couldn't it be that Reuter's never intended the photos to be 
viewed as one?


ann

On 10/12/2017 6:54 PM, John Francis wrote:

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 05:29:03PM -0400, Paul Stenquist wrote:

Google maps shows the hotel within a quarter mile or so of the hotel, so the 
photo is obviously possible. Take off runways and direction vary from day to 
day and even hour to hour depending on wind direction and velocity.

The hotel may have been close to the airport, but from the news coverage we 
learn that the shooter was able to fire rounds that struck fuel storage tanks 
on the airport. This means the fuel storage would be visible from the side of 
the hotel with the broken windows.  Air Force One appears to be on the other 
side of the hotel.  As the hotel is on the Las Vegas strip, and not in the 
middle of the airport, this strongly suggests that to get such a  photograph 
isn't actually possible.




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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread Paul Stenquist
The windows have already been replaced, according to news reports.

Paul via phone

> On Oct 12, 2017, at 6:54 PM, John Francis  wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 05:29:03PM -0400, Paul Stenquist wrote:
>> Google maps shows the hotel within a quarter mile or so of the hotel, so the 
>> photo is obviously possible. Take off runways and direction vary from day to 
>> day and even hour to hour depending on wind direction and velocity.
> 
> The hotel may have been close to the airport, but from the news coverage we 
> learn that the shooter was able to fire rounds that struck fuel storage tanks 
> on the airport. This means the fuel storage would be visible from the side of 
> the hotel with the broken windows.  Air Force One appears to be on the other 
> side of the hotel.  As the hotel is on the Las Vegas strip, and not in the 
> middle of the airport, this strongly suggests that to get such a  photograph 
> isn't actually possible.
> 
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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread Paul Stenquist
I see some leaping to conclusions here, but it's not important. I know I 
wouldn't risk faking a photo for the Times. They would pull my credentials 
permanently if I were caught. Don't know what Reuters policy is, but I would 
think it's similar. Of course that doesn't mean someone wouldn't make the 
attempt for a good payday.

Paul via phone

> On Oct 12, 2017, at 6:27 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:
> 
> Well I did kinda live there for a while so had some advantage
> 
> ann
> 
>> On 10/12/2017 6:14 PM, mike wilson wrote:
>> On the nail.  The runway is on the same side as the photo was taken so the 
>> plane
>> should be much larger.  Naughty Reuters.
>> 
>>> On 12 October 2017 at 21:59 ann sanfedele  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The plane could not be at that altitude and going -up- in that direction
>>> given where the hotel is and the airport is.. may be more wrong than
>>> that..  but it is surely a photoshop paste job.
>>> 
>>> ann
>>> 
 On 10/12/2017 4:18 PM, mike wilson wrote:
 What's wrong with this Reuter's pic?
 
 https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/8A4C/production/_98140453_hi042190292.jpg
 
>>> 
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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread Larry Colen



John Francis wrote:

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 05:29:03PM -0400, Paul Stenquist wrote:

Google maps shows the hotel within a quarter mile or so of the hotel, so the 
photo is obviously possible. Take off runways and direction vary from day to 
day and even hour to hour depending on wind direction and velocity.


The hotel may have been close to the airport, but from the news coverage we 
learn that the shooter was able to fire rounds that struck fuel storage tanks 
on the airport. This means the fuel storage would be visible from the side of 
the hotel with the broken windows.  Air Force One appears to be on the other 
side of the hotel.  As the hotel is on the Las Vegas strip, and not in the 
middle of the airport, this strongly suggests that to get such a  photograph 
isn't actually possible.



What if the photo was taken from between the airport and the hotel, and 
the plane took off from runway 19, flying past the hotel and over the strip?



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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread John Francis
On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 05:29:03PM -0400, Paul Stenquist wrote:
> Google maps shows the hotel within a quarter mile or so of the hotel, so the 
> photo is obviously possible. Take off runways and direction vary from day to 
> day and even hour to hour depending on wind direction and velocity.

The hotel may have been close to the airport, but from the news coverage we 
learn that the shooter was able to fire rounds that struck fuel storage tanks 
on the airport. This means the fuel storage would be visible from the side of 
the hotel with the broken windows.  Air Force One appears to be on the other 
side of the hotel.  As the hotel is on the Las Vegas strip, and not in the 
middle of the airport, this strongly suggests that to get such a  photograph 
isn't actually possible.

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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread Mark Roberts
mike wilson wrote:

>On the nail.  The runway is on the same side as the photo was taken so the 
>plane
>should be much larger.  Naughty Reuters.

Oh, and Reuters is the agency that banned their photographers from
shooting raw in the name of photographic integrity. That makes it a
double LOL.

>> On 10/12/2017 4:18 PM, mike wilson wrote:
>> > What's wrong with this Reuter's pic?
>> >
>> > https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/8A4C/production/_98140453_hi042190292.jpg
 
-- 
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www.robertstech.com





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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread ann sanfedele

Yes - that is how I viewed it - a picture puzzle.

ann

On 10/12/2017 5:29 PM, Larry Colen wrote:



Paul Stenquist wrote:
Okay. So the debate is in regard to whether or not it's photoshopped. 
Why do we care?


There is some aspect of "can we trust the news?", but for me it's 
mostly interesting as a puzzle.  Could that picture have been taken?










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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread Steve Cottrell
On 12/10/17, mike wilson, discombobulated, unleashed:

>On the nail.  The runway is on the same side as the photo was taken so
>the plane
>should be much larger. 

Did you not know that a half-scale replica model of Air Force One always flies 
30 seconds in front of the real Air Force one to act as a decoy in the event of 
a missile strike? And that a half-scale replica of the replica actually flies 
in front of that replica just for show?



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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread ann sanfedele

Well I did kinda live there for a while so had some advantage

ann

On 10/12/2017 6:14 PM, mike wilson wrote:

On the nail.  The runway is on the same side as the photo was taken so the plane
should be much larger.  Naughty Reuters.


On 12 October 2017 at 21:59 ann sanfedele  wrote:


The plane could not be at that altitude and going -up- in that direction
given where the hotel is and the airport is.. may be more wrong than
that..  but it is surely a photoshop paste job.

ann

On 10/12/2017 4:18 PM, mike wilson wrote:

What's wrong with this Reuter's pic?

https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/8A4C/production/_98140453_hi042190292.jpg



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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread ann sanfedele
Paul - the side of the building with the broken pieces are facing the 
runways on Mccaren..  the plane would not be

going up from where there was not airport

I didn't know it was air force one - can only see it is a plane...

On 10/12/2017 5:29 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

Google maps shows the hotel within a quarter mile or so of the hotel, so the 
photo is obviously possible. Take off runways and direction vary from day to 
day and even hour to hour depending on wind direction and velocity.

Paul via phone


On Oct 12, 2017, at 5:19 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:



Paul Stenquist wrote:

Photoshopped or not, I don't get the point other than it's Air Force One and 
the hotel. Is it meant to imply that Trump dropped this guy off and told him to 
kill 58 country music fans, most of whom I would guess are Trump voters?

The article it's from was about Trump visiting Las Vegas.  It's a photo that 
captures both Trump and the reason he was in Las Vegas.


Paul via phone


On Oct 12, 2017, at 4:59 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:

The plane could not be at that altitude and going -up- in that direction given 
where the hotel is and the airport is.. may be more wrong than that..  but it 
is surely a photoshop paste job.

I'm not so sure of that. I took a look on the map
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mandalay+Bay/@36.0869256,-115.1810502,14.63z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x80c8c5cffb824261:0x97f68a25c5b4ddef!8m2!3d36.0918777!4d-115.175245

and taking off from 1R or 1L could have the plane in that configuration 
compared to the hotel. A sufficiently long lens could give the compression of 
perspective that would make the plane seem a lot closer than that.



ann


On 10/12/2017 4:18 PM, mike wilson wrote:
What's wrong with this Reuter's pic?

https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/8A4C/production/_98140453_hi042190292.jpg


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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread mike wilson
On the nail.  The runway is on the same side as the photo was taken so the plane
should be much larger.  Naughty Reuters.

> On 12 October 2017 at 21:59 ann sanfedele  wrote:
> 
> 
> The plane could not be at that altitude and going -up- in that direction 
> given where the hotel is and the airport is.. may be more wrong than 
> that..  but it is surely a photoshop paste job.
> 
> ann
> 
> On 10/12/2017 4:18 PM, mike wilson wrote:
> > What's wrong with this Reuter's pic?
> >
> > https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/8A4C/production/_98140453_hi042190292.jpg
> >
> 
> 
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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread Paul Stenquist
I think it could have been taken, given the location of the airport and the 
three tower architecture of the hotel. The DOF seems about right for a lens of 
300 to 400 mm.

Paul via phone

> On Oct 12, 2017, at 5:29 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Paul Stenquist wrote:
>> Okay. So the debate is in regard to whether or not it's photoshopped. Why do 
>> we care?
> 
> There is some aspect of "can we trust the news?", but for me it's mostly 
> interesting as a puzzle.  Could that picture have been taken?
> 
> 
>> 
> 
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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread Larry Colen



Paul Stenquist wrote:

Okay. So the debate is in regard to whether or not it's photoshopped. Why do we 
care?


There is some aspect of "can we trust the news?", but for me it's mostly 
interesting as a puzzle.  Could that picture have been taken?







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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread Paul Stenquist
Google maps shows the hotel within a quarter mile or so of the hotel, so the 
photo is obviously possible. Take off runways and direction vary from day to 
day and even hour to hour depending on wind direction and velocity.

Paul via phone

> On Oct 12, 2017, at 5:19 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Paul Stenquist wrote:
>> Photoshopped or not, I don't get the point other than it's Air Force One and 
>> the hotel. Is it meant to imply that Trump dropped this guy off and told him 
>> to kill 58 country music fans, most of whom I would guess are Trump voters?
> 
> The article it's from was about Trump visiting Las Vegas.  It's a photo that 
> captures both Trump and the reason he was in Las Vegas.
> 
>> 
>> Paul via phone
>> 
>>> On Oct 12, 2017, at 4:59 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The plane could not be at that altitude and going -up- in that direction 
>>> given where the hotel is and the airport is.. may be more wrong than that.. 
>>>  but it is surely a photoshop paste job.
> 
> I'm not so sure of that. I took a look on the map
> https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mandalay+Bay/@36.0869256,-115.1810502,14.63z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x80c8c5cffb824261:0x97f68a25c5b4ddef!8m2!3d36.0918777!4d-115.175245
> 
> and taking off from 1R or 1L could have the plane in that configuration 
> compared to the hotel. A sufficiently long lens could give the compression of 
> perspective that would make the plane seem a lot closer than that.
> 
> 
>>> 
>>> ann
>>> 
 On 10/12/2017 4:18 PM, mike wilson wrote:
 What's wrong with this Reuter's pic?
 
 https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/8A4C/production/_98140453_hi042190292.jpg
 
>>> 
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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread Paul Stenquist
Okay. So the debate is in regard to whether or not it's photoshopped. Why do we 
care?

Paul via phone

> On Oct 12, 2017, at 5:19 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Paul Stenquist wrote:
>> Photoshopped or not, I don't get the point other than it's Air Force One and 
>> the hotel. Is it meant to imply that Trump dropped this guy off and told him 
>> to kill 58 country music fans, most of whom I would guess are Trump voters?
> 
> The article it's from was about Trump visiting Las Vegas.  It's a photo that 
> captures both Trump and the reason he was in Las Vegas.
> 
>> 
>> Paul via phone
>> 
>>> On Oct 12, 2017, at 4:59 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The plane could not be at that altitude and going -up- in that direction 
>>> given where the hotel is and the airport is.. may be more wrong than that.. 
>>>  but it is surely a photoshop paste job.
> 
> I'm not so sure of that. I took a look on the map
> https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mandalay+Bay/@36.0869256,-115.1810502,14.63z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x80c8c5cffb824261:0x97f68a25c5b4ddef!8m2!3d36.0918777!4d-115.175245
> 
> and taking off from 1R or 1L could have the plane in that configuration 
> compared to the hotel. A sufficiently long lens could give the compression of 
> perspective that would make the plane seem a lot closer than that.
> 
> 
>>> 
>>> ann
>>> 
 On 10/12/2017 4:18 PM, mike wilson wrote:
 What's wrong with this Reuter's pic?
 
 https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/8A4C/production/_98140453_hi042190292.jpg
 
>>> 
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>> 
> 
> -- 
> Larry Colen  l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est) http://red4est.com/lrc
> 
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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread Larry Colen



Paul Stenquist wrote:

Photoshopped or not, I don't get the point other than it's Air Force One and 
the hotel. Is it meant to imply that Trump dropped this guy off and told him to 
kill 58 country music fans, most of whom I would guess are Trump voters?


The article it's from was about Trump visiting Las Vegas.  It's a photo 
that captures both Trump and the reason he was in Las Vegas.




Paul via phone


On Oct 12, 2017, at 4:59 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:

The plane could not be at that altitude and going -up- in that direction given 
where the hotel is and the airport is.. may be more wrong than that..  but it 
is surely a photoshop paste job.


I'm not so sure of that. I took a look on the map
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mandalay+Bay/@36.0869256,-115.1810502,14.63z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x80c8c5cffb824261:0x97f68a25c5b4ddef!8m2!3d36.0918777!4d-115.175245

and taking off from 1R or 1L could have the plane in that configuration 
compared to the hotel. A sufficiently long lens could give the 
compression of perspective that would make the plane seem a lot closer 
than that.





ann


On 10/12/2017 4:18 PM, mike wilson wrote:
What's wrong with this Reuter's pic?

https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/8A4C/production/_98140453_hi042190292.jpg



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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread Paul Stenquist
Photoshopped or not, I don't get the point other than it's Air Force One and 
the hotel. Is it meant to imply that Trump dropped this guy off and told him to 
kill 58 country music fans, most of whom I would guess are Trump voters?

Paul via phone

> On Oct 12, 2017, at 4:59 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:
> 
> The plane could not be at that altitude and going -up- in that direction 
> given where the hotel is and the airport is.. may be more wrong than that..  
> but it is surely a photoshop paste job.
> 
> ann
> 
>> On 10/12/2017 4:18 PM, mike wilson wrote:
>> What's wrong with this Reuter's pic?
>> 
>> https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/8A4C/production/_98140453_hi042190292.jpg
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread ann sanfedele
The plane could not be at that altitude and going -up- in that direction 
given where the hotel is and the airport is.. may be more wrong than 
that..  but it is surely a photoshop paste job.


ann

On 10/12/2017 4:18 PM, mike wilson wrote:

What's wrong with this Reuter's pic?

https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/8A4C/production/_98140453_hi042190292.jpg




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Re: False news

2017-10-12 Thread Richard Klein
There's no convenient line of sight that includes the flight path of Air
Force One and Mandalay Bay?

On Thu, Oct 12, 2017 at 4:18 PM, mike wilson 
wrote:

> What's wrong with this Reuter's pic?
>
> https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/8A4C/production/_98140453_
> hi042190292.jpg
>
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