Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

Gary R., List: GR: Kenneth Ketner in two of the appendices of 'A Thief of Peirce' suggests that the reduction thesis has its valental roots in mathematics and its further development in logic as semeiotic, notably in existential graphs. So I would agree that, as you wrote, "It is at the heart of

Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

Robert, List: RM: I have just answered Gary F ... if you take up his criticism without making sure of its validity, you are objectively in the same case as him ... I agree with Gary F.'s "criticism," but there is nothing "malicious" about simply pointing out that the statement, "The objects of

Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

Robert, Jon, Gary f, Little of what you write below, Robert, pertains to phenomenology, but rather to pure (vs applied) mathematics or to logic as semeiotic. For example, Kenneth Ketner in two of the appendices of 'A Thief of Peirce' suggests that the *reduction thesis* has its valental roots in

Aw: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

Jon. List   For the thing, why statistics is not pure mathemathics, I can only imagine, that its subject randomness is something external to mathematics. Is it? Randomness a phenomenon from other sciences like phaneroscopy? I cannot totally disagree with that view.   Being valid for an "ideal

Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

Helmut, List: Again, anyone is free to disagree with Peirce's definition of mathematics. However, the occurrence of surprises is perfectly consistent with its method being strictly deductive and its subject matter being strictly hypothetical, especially given the distinction that he draws between

Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

Helmuth, List, In algebra, the invention of complex numbers by Gerolamo Cardano is a wonderful example that is not new! (1545 !) And so many others ...For example, Peirce was interested in quaternions CP 4.138 §10. THE ALGEBRA OF REAL QUATERNIONS;

Aw: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

List,   Donot underestimate the power of words. I think it is very dangerous to ideationally seperate the world in two. Martin Luther did that, and the result were first ca. 75000 peasants slaughtered, and later a 30 years long war. An (epistemic) gap is not an impermeable border, and I think it

Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

Jon Alan, List, I have just answered Gary F ... if you take up his criticism without making sure of its validity, you are objectively in the same case as him ... For the second part, it seems to me that you are stating something very close to what I am proposing when you write "both by

Aw: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

Jon, List   I disagree with this "strictly hypothetical". In mathemathics, mostly there are hypotheses at the beginning, presumtions, which then are deductively proven or refuted by disproof or failed to prove. But, as I said, in mathematics also are surprising phenomena for subject matters

Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

List, Here is a malicious criticism from someone who obviously hasn't read what he is criticizing ... I won't say more ... except to tell those who read this thread to avoid reading the opinions of someone who makes you say the opposite of what you said without checking anything ... But let's

Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

Robert, List: RM: What you describe is right for the experimental sciences of nature, i.e. the knowledge of objects in the outer world. The objects of Phaneroscopy are in the inner world. On the contrary, as Gary F. already pointed out, phaneroscopy does not concern itself with the distinction

RE: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

List, CSP: ... every man inhabits two worlds. These are directly distinguishable by their different appearances. But the greatest difference between them, by far, is that one of these two worlds, the Inner World, exerts a comparatively slight compulsion upon us, though we can by direct

Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

Gary F., John Alan, Gary R., List, What you describe is right for the experimental sciences of nature, i.e. the knowledge of objects in the outer world. The objects of Phaneroscopy are in the inner world. It so happens that in this world, the relations between A preliminary mathematical result

Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

Jon, Gary f, List, Thank your for this very instructive exchange of ideas today, well supported by apposite Peirce quotations. I found this juxtaposition especially interesting: JAS:. . . according to Peirce, mathematics is *strictly deductive* in its method and *strictly hypothetical* in its

Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

Gary F., List: GF: Maybe he [Vehkavaara] just invented it ["negative science"] to distinguish it from “positive science.” That is what I suspect, as well, and it is not a very apt choice. Peirce defines a "positive science" in one place as "an investigating theoretical science which inquires

Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

Robert, List: For Peirce, mathematics is indeed a science of *discovery*, but it is not a *positive *science. CSP: Mathematics is the most abstract of all the sciences. For it makes no external observations, nor asserts anything as a real fact. When the mathematician deals with facts, they

Aw: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

Robert, Jon, Gary, List   I think, the only thing that mathematics strictly is, is being self-referential, while all other sciences have to refer to mathematics. Phenomenology is not excluded from mathematics: I think, that in chaos theory phenomena like self-similarity and scales-invariance

RE: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

Well, I guess I underestimated how eager we are to focus on the classification of sciences! A couple of brief questions before I post the slides on that: Robert, thanks for attaching the Tommi Vehkavaara diagram. In it mathematics is labelled “negative science.” This is a new term for me, and I

Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

Gary F., List: At the risk of jumping the gun ... GF: For example, Peirce says that the practice of phanerocopy consists of “observation and generalization.” As Daniel Campos discusses in a 2009 paper (

Re: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

List, - Minimal classification, but strong : *"Every systematic philosopher must provide himself a classification of the sciences. Comte first proposed to arrange the sciences in a series of steps, each leading another. This general idea may be adopted, and we may adapt our

RE: [PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

List, Slide 14 is the last in Part 2 of the slideshow, and I’m sure many of us are eager to start on Part 3, which is about “the place of phaneroscopy in Peirce’s mature classification of the sciences.” So unless questions arise today about the specific content of this slide, I’d like to post the

[PEIRCE-L] André De Tienne: Slow Read slide 14

Continuing our slow read, here is the next slide of André De Tienne’s slideshow posted on the Peirce Edition Project (iupui.edu) site. Now that we have definitions of the three universal categories, the next step in chronological order is