Aw: [PEIRCE-L] Should we start a new email list (was Peirce's contributions to the 21st c

[Helmut Raulien]

List,

 

I think, a problem is, that sometimes people want to talk about and analyse a theme, while others always immediately are looking for hermeneutical reference. Both is valuable, but, on one hand, a theme cannot be properly discussed, if it always is disturbed by accusations of wrong hermeneutics, on the other hand, if it is not, it may go astray and leave the Peirce-zone. This problem can not be solved by a new list. Maybe it can by seperating every post into two parts: A theme part and a hermeneutical part. In the theme parts, the hermeneutical parts can be ignored, resp. the hermeneutical parts can be regarded as mere comments, either as long as the poster thinks, that this is possible, or until all agree that is not longer possible to do so. Then, but much later than usually, aspects from the hermeneutics are either used to correct the theme, or the theme discussion has crossed the point of having become irreversibly non-Peircean. Only then the discussion should leave the list, and e.g. go to Biosemiotics List, or a new list. But I think this is unlikely to happen very often: I sometimes have though that Peirce was wrong in one or the other aspect, but later saw he was not. But if-then.

 

Best,

Helmut

 

 

 16. Oktober 2021 um 20:28 Uhr
 "Margaretha Hendrickx" <mahe3...@gmail.com>
wrote:

 

Hi Edwina,

 

I respect your decision to not interact with people with ZOOM or SKYPE.  But what about the phone then?  Hopefully, you will consider joining us via the phone if  this ZOOM/SKYPE gathering were ever to happen.

 

Talking about Popper's Open Society and Its Enemies, the real enemy is inside each one of us when we flip into a subtly intolerant attitude.  That is, recall Popper's aphorism, "You may be right; I may be wrong; together we get closer to the truth." I got the most out of Popper when I used his writings as a mirror to reflect on what I was doing.  

 

The great insight that I got from it was about the dangers of the picture theory of language.  That theory is among us in the form of the causal theory of meaning and the various representational theories of knowledge.  When we as readers think of a text as an indubitable picture of the content of the mind of the author.  Or, alternatively, a picture of reality.

 

That is, what is that incontrovertible evidence that the Peirce list is closed as in the Germany of the 1930s?  

 

I am not denying the reality of your frustrations.  I am simply wondering whether the creation of a new list will solve whatever the problems are on this list.  

 

On Sat, Oct 16, 2021 at 1:15 PM Edwina Taborsky <tabor...@primus.ca> wrote:

I'm fine with and would love a real coffee house chat - but I'm not into Skype or Zoom. Won't even do it with my kids.

I think that Robert Marty's post is correct - where he agreed with Gary F - that a separate list means that the Peirce-L list members won't be 'bothered' by the 'sacrilege' of reading 'post-Peirce' analysis or reading our complaints that the Peirce-L response is to fling dozens of quotations against such a focus..

I don't see that a separate list is 'divisive'. After all - you mentioned Popper. You must know his 'Open Society and Its Enemies', where Popper specifically warns against a closed society, ie, a tribal society, . a closed ideology, and the rejection of individual freedom of thought. Well, the Peirce-L list, in my view, has become closed. I think a separate list, which ensures the tribal purity of the Peirce-L list...and yet, enables freedom [aka 1ns] to explore the Peircean framework as operative in other areas than Peirce used [though he DID refer to the biological, the societal]….. is a constructive action.

Edwina

 

On Sat 16/10/21 12:50 PM , Margaretha Hendrickx mahe3...@gmail.com sent:

What about taking this conversation off list, as in literally off list?  For example, to a Skype or ZOOM session that we treat as a drink/juice-in-a-bar happening where no one is allowed to talk about serious stuff for the first half hour?  Something like an international Peirce Meet 'n Greet? 

 

Or who knows?  Some list members may be living in driving distance from one another.  I live in Ithaca, NY, USA.

 

What I am trying to say is that it does not make sense to slice and dice Peirce.  A lot can be learned from engaging in non-judgmental listening; that is, thinking without a judgmental sucking-up/talking-down attitude (spatial metaphor).  Face-to-face interaction makes it easier to switch into a horizontal attitude (spatial metaphor).

 

 

 

On Sat, Oct 16, 2021 at 12:33 PM Edwina Taborsky <tabor...@primus.ca> wrote:

Exactly!! That's the spirit!

And it shows, clearly, how different subject matters are treated on this list.

Edwina

 

On Sat 16/10/21 12:23 PM , g...@gnusystems.ca sent:

I think it could be helpful for the group that has been complaining about the subject matter of postings on this list to create a new one that would be more to their liking. At least we (subscribers to peirce-l) wouldn’t have to read all those complaints any more.

 

Gary f.

 

} Truth is truth, whether it is opposed to the interests of society to admit it or not. [Peirce, CP 8.143, EP2:61] {

https://gnusystems.ca/wp/ }{ living the time

 

From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu On Behalf Of Margaretha Hendrickx
Sent: 16-Oct-21 11:22
To: s...@bestweb.net
Cc: Peirce-L
Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Should we start a new email list (was Peirce's contributions to the 21st c

 

List,

 

I think it is absurd to start a separate mailing list. 

 

Especially since its purpose would be to use Peirce's work as a mirror to see what is going on in society today.  

 

If people feel perturbed or unvalidated after reading the emails distributed by this list, well, have you ever had a discussion about the possibility that this has to do more with what is going on in society today and that one's feelings about society are being projected on the emails distributed by this list?

 

My very best, Margaretha H.

 

PS.  I also find it unreasonable to expect people to reply to list emails within 24-48 hrs.  I cannot operate in that way.  I am juggling many other balls.  There are many interesting emails on this list, but I am simply not in the right place to reply to them immediately. I hope to reply to them in the future once my schedule is less hectic.  The reason I replied to this email immediately before other ones, well, it caught my attention and it kept on bothering me.  Its divisive rhetoric mirrors the divisive rhetoric in society at large. 

 

Let me end with a question.  Popper is known for warning against the manipulative use of language and logic. Did Peirce do something similar?  If my question shows a lack of understanding of Peirce's work, I apologize.  I am still in the learning stages.  

 

 

On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 6:02 PM sowa @bestweb.net <s...@bestweb.net> wrote:

List,

 

On Thursday, I sent the note below to Peirce-L.   I received some strong positive comments and suggestions offline, but complete silence from the people who send most of the notes to Peirce-L.    For example:  "As for the natural extensions of Peirce's thought, even when they agree closely with his principles, they are rejected [on Peirce-L] as post-Peircean"

 

I interpret those responses as evidence that we need n email list that is dedicated to the kinds of topics that dominated the Peirce Centennial Congress in 2014.  That was a very exciting conference on  research that builds on Peirce's work and relates it to developments in the century after Peirce.   As Peirce frequently emphasized, the meaning of any  sign is its implications for action in the future.  We live in Peirce's future, and our actions today depend critically on the developments in the century after Peirce.

 

I don't believe that we should reject Peirce-l, but we should have another email list that relates Peirce's ideas to the issues of today.  I would encourage subscribers to Peirce-L to participate in both lists.  I'll send another note tomorrow..

 

John 

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu .
► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in the body.  More at https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html .
► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP;  moderated by Gary Richmond;  and co-managed by him and Ben Udell.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in the body. More at https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html . ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and co-managed by him and Ben Udell.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON 
PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . 
► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to l...@list.iupui.edu 
with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in the 
body.  More at https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html .
► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP;  moderated by Gary Richmond;  and 
co-managed by him and Ben Udell.