Supplement:
Edwina, I think I just argued from your point, or twisted the words. sorry. I think, our opinions are not far apart, generally: When people do not admit that they are arguing or politically acting out of secondness, but make their point seem like thirdness though it isnt, then the
Edwina,
you wrote:
"3] A call for action is, in my view, based on a theory of 'How To Live as a community'."
That would be a fully fledged thirdness-communist-utopic theory. But a call for action may also be just a call for help, from being fed up or starving, without any concept or theo
Helmut - I'll try to be brief because I really don't think this is a
topic for this list.
1] Democratic change, whether gradual or via leaps, has in my view,
nothing to do with the LEAP Manifesto.
2] Yes - the best laid plans of mice and men could be compared with
'the
Edwina,
with "it" I meant a basic-democratic, maybe leap-like, change: In Cochabamba (was it in the 1980ies?) a citizens initiative had regained the water rights that were stolen from the people by a collaboration of the government and a US- water company. Before they were not even allowed to col
Helmut - you wrote:
1] " I spontaneously recall at least two places where it has worked:
Cochabamba, Bolivia, and Chiapas, Mexico."
What does 'IT' refer to? What worked?
2] The Marxist-Leninist theory of linear socioeconomic phases is
simply a Seminar Room The
Edwina, Gary, List,
I am against utopism too, but I do not see what should be wrong with the Leap Manifesto: They are not propagating an utopian regime, but a basic-democratic change. And that is not utopian (no place), I spontaneously recall at least two places where it has worked: Cochabamba, B
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}Gary R, list:
Yes, I think that any utopian regime, to maintain its 'purity of
type', must act as an Authoritarian regime to maintain the holistic
purity and prevent the natural dissipation of type that occurs wit
Edwina, list,
The LEAP manifesto sounds like North Korea? Well, while I agree with you
that the manifesto is at least quasi-utopian, I think equating it with the
brutal NK is way off the mark.
In any case, there was an op-ed piece today in The Stone, that section of
the New York Times editorial p
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don't see that it is Peirce-related for it is utopian; operating
purely in the realm of Homogeneic Purity; it is Hegelian, i.e.,
rejecting the reality of individual Secondness and finiteness;
rejecting the adaptive reali
Gary F, Edwina, Gene, list,
Well, before we accept or reject the LEAP proposal (which has implications
far beyong Canada), let's consider what it says. See:
https://leapmanifesto.org/en/the-leap-manifesto/.
If we do consider it here, please try to keep the discussion
Peirce-related. I've copied a
Gary F - as you say, these issues really have no place in a Peircean
analytic framework - unless we want to explore the development of
societal norms as a form of Thirdness - which is a legitimate area of
research.
I, myself, reject the Naomi Klein perspective [all of her work] and
cert
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Gene, list - very interesting -
I wonder if there are multiple issues here about the 'decline of
empathy'.
One reason might be the postmodern method of raising children which,
in a sense, isolates the c
: Peirce-L ; Gary Richmond
Onderwerp: Re: Re: RE: [PEIRCE-L] RE: AI
Gary R - I'd agree with you.
First - I do agree [with Peirce] that Mind [and therefore semiosis] operates in
the physic-chemical realm. BUT - this realm which provides the planet with
enormous stability of matter [just im
Gary F wrote:
GF: In fact, the development of AlphaGo involved a collaboration of
programmers with expert human Go players who described their own thinking
process in coming up with strategically powerful moves. Just like a
scientist coming up with a hypothesis, a Go player would be hopelessly los
Gary, you wrote,
“the rapid, varied, and numerous inductiosn of the Gobot, for example, do not
yet lead to true abduction. The Gobot merely chooses out of the extraordinarily
many possible moves (more than an individual player would be able to imagine
towards the ends of the game) those which a
Edwina, list,
Edwina wrote:
AI is not, as I understand it - similar to a biological organism. It
seems similar to a physico-chemical element. It's a programmed machine with
the programming outside of its individual control.
I agree. And this would be the case even if it were to 'learn' how to
re
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}Gary R - I'd agree with you.
First - I do agree [with Peirce] that Mind [and therefore semiosis]
operates in the physic-chemical realm. BUT - this realm which
provides the planet with enormous stability of matter
Auke, Edwina, Gary F, list,
Auke, quoting Gary F, wrote: "Biosemiotics has made us well aware of the
intimate connection between life and semiosis." Then asked, "What if we
insert ‘mind’ instead of life?"
Edwina commented: "Excellent - but only if one considers that 'mInd'
operates in the physic-
Excellent - but only if one considers that 'mInd' operates in the
physic-chemical realm as well as the biological.
Edwina
On Sat 17/06/17 12:27 PM , "Auke van Breemen" a.bree...@chello.nl
sent:
Gary’s,
Biosemiotics has made us well aware of the intimate connection
betwe
How about the most obvious reason. Ran out of gas.
Best,
J
On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 4:48 PM, Helmut Raulien wrote:
>
>
> Supplement: Some more Science Fiction, not to be taken too seriously, but
> this time including the belief I agree with, that machines cannot become
> alive:
> The riddle is:
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Jon - my use of the term 'random' [ which means without a law or
intentionality] equates it with indeterminacy; i.e., the absence of
regular behaviour- and regular behaviour obviously operates according
to a law or inte
Edwina, List:
Indeterminacy is not equivalent to randomness. Where did Peirce ever
suggest that habits could/did emerge from randomness?
Regards,
Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA
Professional Engineer, Amateur Philosopher, Lutheran Layman
www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt - twitter.com/J
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I'd suggest that an AI system without a goal is not an AI system;
it's pure randomness. The question emerges - can a goal, or even the
Will to Intentionality, or 'Final Causation', emerge from randomness?
After all, Pe
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