RE: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions,

2014-09-28 Thread John Collier
: September 28, 2014 6:05 AM To: Stephen C. Rose Cc: Peirce-L Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions, Stephen: You simply state: Beauty and truth are teleological terms I wonder why. Cheers Jerry On Sep 26, 2014, at 1:05 PM, Stephen C. Rose wrote: Beauty and truth

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions,

2014-09-28 Thread Stephen C. Rose
*Subject:* Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions, Stephen: You simply state: Beauty and truth are teleological terms I wonder why. Cheers Jerry On Sep 26, 2014, at 1:05 PM, Stephen C. Rose wrote: Beauty and truth are teleological terms

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions,

2014-09-28 Thread Sungchul Ji
Stefan, Excuse me for asking a silly question: You wrote . . . are unable to destinct their own dreams . . . Can you use distinct as a verb ? Or did you mean distinguish ? With all the best. Sung Ben, Gary, R., Gary F., i've got to start from the end of your post. You speak of the

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions,

2014-09-28 Thread Jerry LR Chandler
, hypothetically, as it were. John From: Jerry LR Chandler [mailto:jerry_lr_chand...@me.com] Sent: September 28, 2014 6:05 AM To: Stephen C. Rose Cc: Peirce-L Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions, Stephen: You simply state: Beauty and truth

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions,

2014-09-27 Thread Jerry LR Chandler
Stephen: You simply state: Beauty and truth are teleological terms I wonder why. Cheers Jerry On Sep 26, 2014, at 1:05 PM, Stephen C. Rose wrote: Beauty and truth are teleological terms and valuable as objectives that continuity heads toward and fallibility clouds. @stephencrose On

Fwd: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions,

2014-09-26 Thread sb
Ben, Garys, list, seems i took some things down the wrong pipe (see my post to Gary). There is not much in what you say that I'd disagree with. But there is still the truth-problem, but maybe this is just a problem of labeling. For me truth has no little errorbars, but i'm apodictic here

Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions,

2014-09-26 Thread Stephen C. Rose
Stefan Would it not be an act aiming toward truth and beauty to stop using the word pragmatism entirely when seeking to articulate CP's thought and instead say pragmaticism even if in doing so one has to explain why? *@stephencrose https://twitter.com/stephencrose* On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 5:52

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions,

2014-09-26 Thread sb
Stephen, in germany we have a saying I am not more papal than the pope. There are times of loose thinking/speaking and there are times of strict thinking/speaking. When the setting is right people will understand you even if use the wrong words. Best Stefan Am 26.09.14 13:24, schrieb

Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions,

2014-09-26 Thread Gary Richmond
Stefan, all, I think that there's much to be said for your suggestion of our jettisoning 'truth' and replacing it with 'knowledge', at least in science. There are, I believe, strong hints of this notion in Peirce as well, for example, here: When our logic shall have paid its *devoirs* to

Re: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions,

2014-09-26 Thread Stephen C. Rose
Beauty and truth are teleological terms and valuable as objectives that continuity heads toward and fallibility clouds. *@stephencrose https://twitter.com/stephencrose* On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Gary Richmond gary.richm...@gmail.com wrote: Stefan, all, I think that there's much to be

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions,

2014-09-24 Thread sb
Ben, Gary, R., Gary F., i've got to start from the end of your post. You speak of the society rewarding diciplines and this sheds a light on your idea of sociology in this discussion. Your sociology consists of conscious actors who reward, strive for power, wealth or status. This is more a

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions,

2014-09-23 Thread Benjamin Udell
Stefan, Gary F., list, I was indeed addressing the snakebite example, just not mentioning it by name. If two traditions, two people, two of anything, arrive at incompatible conclusions about snakebites, then at most one of their conclusions is true. That's what incompatible conclusions means.

RE: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions,

2014-09-23 Thread Gary Fuhrman
: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions, Gary F., Ben, List, yes, it is an extremist position. Ludwik Fleck in some of his texts about the Denkkollektive (thought collectives) comes close to this point. But his microbiological bench research maybe prevented him to fall prey to such solipcism

RE: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions,

2014-09-22 Thread Gary Fuhrman
compelled) to polarize the issue. And Ben was responding in kind (appropriately, I think). gary f. From: sb [mailto:peirc...@semiotikon.de] Sent: 21-Sep-14 5:41 PM To: peirce-l@list.iupui.edu Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions, Dear Ben, Gary R

[PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions,

2014-09-21 Thread Frederik Stjernfelt
Dear Stan, lists, The problem here is a bit as when Collier thought all the world was in the head - for where is that head? in the world? in another head? The same holds here: the world will be constructed by each [tradition] via different models - now, WHERE are those traditions? Seems to be

[PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions,

2014-09-21 Thread Gary Richmond
Ben, lists, A most excellent post, and one of the strongest arguments against constructivist epistemology that I've read, having the added virtue of being succinct. Best, Gary *Gary Richmond* *Philosophy and Critical Thinking* *Communication Studies* *LaGuardia College of the City University

Re: [PEIRCE-L] Re: [biosemiotics:6912] Re: Natural Propositions,

2014-09-21 Thread sb
Dear Ben, Gary R., Gary F., List wich social constructivists with some reputation do hold the position that the objects or findings of inquiry are unreal and mere figments? Schütz, Berger Luckmann, Piaget, von Foerster, Latour, Bloor or Knorr-Cetina? Foucault, Mannheim or Fleck? I wonder