Re: [peirce-l] C.S. Peirce • A Guess at the Riddle
Re: Benjamin Udell At: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.science.philosophy.peirce/8026 Re: Terry Bristol At: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.science.philosophy.peirce/8029 In the passage I quoted, Peirce is describing a critical juncture in the evolution of our physical understanding. One of the things we can see in the formula F = ma is the transition from an intuitive, dualistic, cause-effect conception of force to a geometric description of change in differential, relative terms. To observe all that in the physics of his day was not only perceptive but downright prescient. But my present interest is more directed to this question: “Is there a similar transition to be expected in the evolution of semiotics, the theory of signs, or the theory of inquiry itself?” Developing a conceptual framework that allows us to consider that question in any productive way will require us to pursue the matter of “Thirdness as it naturally arises … more generally in systems theory.” Regards, Jon -- academia: http://independent.academia.edu/JonAwbrey inquiry list: http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/ mwb: http://www.mywikibiz.com/Directory:Jon_Awbrey oeiswiki: http://www.oeis.org/wiki/User:Jon_Awbrey word press blog 1: http://jonawbrey.wordpress.com/ word press blog 2: http://inquiryintoinquiry.com/ - You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the PEIRCE-L listserv. To remove yourself from this list, send a message to lists...@listserv.iupui.edu with the line SIGNOFF PEIRCE-L in the body of the message. To post a message to the list, send it to PEIRCE-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
Re: [peirce-l] C.S. Peirce • A Guess at the Riddle
TB = Terry Bristol TB: I like it up to this statement that I find obscure. CSP: Now an acceleration, instead of being like a velocity a relation between two successive positions, is a relation between three; so that the new doctrine has consisted in the suitable introduction of the conception of Threeness. On this idea, the whole of modern physics is built. TB: I very much look forward to your comments on the overall passage. Terry, This just says that we estimate the velocity of a particle moving through a space by taking two points on its trajectory and dividing the distance traveled between them by the time it takes to do so. To get the instantaneous velocity at a point on the trajectory we take the limit of this quotient as pairs of points are chosen ever closer to the point of interest. We estimate acceleration by taking three points, taking the velocity between the first two, taking the velocity between the last two, then taking the rate of change in the velocities as an estimate of the acceleration. We get the instantaneous acceleration by choosing the three points ever closer and taking the limit. By the way ... This is probably a good time to mention an objection that is bound to arise in regard to Peirce's use of the series of quantities, Position, Velocity, Acceleration, to illustrate his 3 categories. There is nothing about that series, which can of course be extended indefinitely, to suggest that the categories of monadic, dyadic, and triadic relations are universal, necessary, and sufficient. Not so far as I can see, not right off, at least. So making that case for Peirce's Triple Threat will probably have to be mounted at a different level of abstraction. Regards, Jon -- academia: http://independent.academia.edu/JonAwbrey inquiry list: http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/ mwb: http://www.mywikibiz.com/Directory:Jon_Awbrey oeiswiki: http://www.oeis.org/wiki/User:Jon_Awbrey word press blog 1: http://jonawbrey.wordpress.com/ word press blog 2: http://inquiryintoinquiry.com/ - You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the PEIRCE-L listserv. To remove yourself from this list, send a message to lists...@listserv.iupui.edu with the line SIGNOFF PEIRCE-L in the body of the message. To post a message to the list, send it to PEIRCE-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
Re: [peirce-l] C.S. Peirce • A Guess at the Riddle
Jon, Terry, list, I've seen it suggested in a thread somewhere on the Web that the reason that the position-velocity-acceleration trichotomy is a good one is that that there are universal laws of acceleration and velocity (and position?) but not of the third or higher derivatives. (The third derivative of position is informally known as jerk, also, jolt, surge, and lurch.) I don't know why there shouldn't be a universal law of jerk, becoming very salient when two strongly gravitating masses drift toward each other. But I'm no physicist. In fact, a two-ton truck does put on a few pounds as it moves from mountain top to sea level. The weight difference wouldn't make it fall faster, but I think that the difference in the strength of the gravitational field would. Otherwise one should be falling earthward at 32ft per sec. per sec. no matter how far from Earth one is. Also toward everything else in the universe. Then they'd all cancel each other out and there'd be no gravitation. I'd better stop before I drift too far out into space myself. Best, Ben - Original Message - From: Jon Awbrey jawb...@att.net To: PEIRCE-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [peirce-l] C.S. Peirce • A Guess at the Riddle TB = Terry Bristol TB: I like it up to this statement that I find obscure. CSP: Now an acceleration, instead of being like a velocity a relation between two successive positions, is a relation between three; so that the new doctrine has consisted in the suitable introduction of the conception of Threeness. On this idea, the whole of modern physics is built. TB: I very much look forward to your comments on the overall passage. Terry, This just says that we estimate the velocity of a particle moving through a space by taking two points on its trajectory and dividing the distance traveled between them by the time it takes to do so. To get the instantaneous velocity at a point on the trajectory we take the limit of this quotient as pairs of points are chosen ever closer to the point of interest. We estimate acceleration by taking three points, taking the velocity between the first two, taking the velocity between the last two, then taking the rate of change in the velocities as an estimate of the acceleration. We get the instantaneous acceleration by choosing the three points ever closer and taking the limit. By the way ... This is probably a good time to mention an objection that is bound to arise in regard to Peirce's use of the series of quantities, Position, Velocity, Acceleration, to illustrate his 3 categories. There is nothing about that series, which can of course be extended indefinitely, to suggest that the categories of monadic, dyadic, and triadic relations are universal, necessary, and sufficient. Not so far as I can see, not right off, at least. So making that case for Peirce's Triple Threat will probably have to be mounted at a different level of abstraction. Regards, Jon -- academia: http://independent.academia.edu/JonAwbrey inquiry list: http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/ mwb: http://www.mywikibiz.com/Directory:Jon_Awbrey oeiswiki: http://www.oeis.org/wiki/User:Jon_Awbrey word press blog 1: http://jonawbrey.wordpress.com/ word press blog 2: http://inquiryintoinquiry.com/ - You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the PEIRCE-L listserv. To remove yourself from this list, send a message to lists...@listserv.iupui.edu with the line SIGNOFF PEIRCE-L in the body of the message. To post a message to the list, send it to PEIRCE-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
Re: [peirce-l] C.S. Peirce • A Guess at the Riddle
Jon, Ben et al. – Bypassing the triad theme for a moment – I think Peirce makes a crucial point that classical mechanics had a problem with acceleration. Modern physics is based in the new 'acceleration paradigm' – but this is far from being unproblematic. If one starts with the Cartesian notion of a sort of billiard ball universe with inelastic collisions (viz no deceleration/acceleration as atoms bounce off each other), then it is rather surprising that we have phenomena of deceleration/acceleration. This and the calculus enter with Galileo and Kepler, then Huygens points out inertial when you go around a corner, and Newton proposes 'gravity' to account for the circular motions of planets etc. For Pragmatism, what is crucial is that deceleration/acceleration requires 'work' to be performed. Enter the language of forces. The transition Peirce is pointing to is from the classical Mechanical Philosophy – where causes are just prior states that 'naturally change' into subsequent effects-states – to a Pragmatic Universe where change requires the performance of work (deceleration/acceleration). Much of modern physics – in my opinion – accepts this and then tries to make sense of it while still remaining in the Mechanical Philosophy. You see this particularly in the presumptions about 'isolated systems' and conservation laws – both closely linked to Symmetry presumptions. In the Mechanical universe things just 'happen' whereas in the Pragmatist's developmental model the universe arises and evolves from 'doings' – the performance of work. Work here might be understood along the lines of what engineers do. In the Mechanical Philosophy's universes there is 'no net work.' Whatever 'happens' is energetically balanced by an equal and opposite 'happening' – net change is always zero always retaining symmetry (cf John Barrow's The Book of Nothing). Terry On Mar 22, 2012, at 3:06 PM, Benjamin Udell wrote: Jon, Terry, list, I've seen it suggested in a thread somewhere on the Web that the reason that the position-velocity-acceleration trichotomy is a good one is that that there are universal laws of acceleration and velocity (and position?) but not of the third or higher derivatives. (The third derivative of position is informally known as jerk, also, jolt, surge, and lurch.) I don't know why there shouldn't be a universal law of jerk, becoming very salient when two strongly gravitating masses drift toward each other. But I'm no physicist. In fact, a two-ton truck does put on a few pounds as it moves from mountain top to sea level. The weight difference wouldn't make it fall faster, but I think that the difference in the strength of the gravitational field would. Otherwise one should be falling earthward at 32ft per sec. per sec. no matter how far from Earth one is. Also toward everything else in the universe. Then they'd all cancel each other out and there'd be no gravitation. I'd better stop before I drift too far out into space myself. Best, Ben - Original Message - From: Jon Awbrey jawb...@att.net To: PEIRCE-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [peirce-l] C.S. Peirce • A Guess at the Riddle TB = Terry Bristol TB: I like it up to this statement that I find obscure. CSP: Now an acceleration, instead of being like a velocity a relation between two successive positions, is a relation between three; so that the new doctrine has consisted in the suitable introduction of the conception of Threeness. On this idea, the whole of modern physics is built. TB: I very much look forward to your comments on the overall passage. Terry, This just says that we estimate the velocity of a particle moving through a space by taking two points on its trajectory and dividing the distance traveled between them by the time it takes to do so. To get the instantaneous velocity at a point on the trajectory we take the limit of this quotient as pairs of points are chosen ever closer to the point of interest. We estimate acceleration by taking three points, taking the velocity between the first two, taking the velocity between the last two, then taking the rate of change in the velocities as an estimate of the acceleration. We get the instantaneous acceleration by choosing the three points ever closer and taking the limit. By the way ... This is probably a good time to mention an objection that is bound to arise in regard to Peirce's use of the series of quantities, Position, Velocity, Acceleration, to illustrate his 3 categories. There is nothing about that series, which can of course be extended indefinitely, to suggest that the categories of monadic, dyadic, and triadic relations are universal, necessary, and sufficient. Not so far as I can see, not right off, at least. So making that case for Peirce's Triple Threat will probably have to be mounted at a different level of abstraction. Regards
[peirce-l] C.S. Peirce • A Guess at the Riddle
Peircers, Here is a passage from Peirce that I find telling and personally compelling, for reasons I hope to tell later on. It often comes up in explaining Thirdness as it naturally arises in physics, and more generally in systems theory. Selections from C.S. Peirce, “A Guess at the Riddle”, CP 1.354–416 [quote] 359. First and Second, Agent and Patient, Yes and No, are categories which enable us roughly to describe the facts of experience, and they satisfy the mind for a very long time. But at last they are found inadequate, and the Third is the conception which is then called for. The Third is that which bridges over the chasm between the absolute first and last, and brings them into relationship. We are told that every science has its Qualitative and its Quantitative stage; now its qualitative stage is when dual distinctions,— whether a given subject has a given predicate or not,— suffice; the quantitative stage comes when, no longer content with such rough distinctions, we require to insert a possible half-way between every two possible conditions of the subject in regard to its possession of the quality indicated by the predicate. Ancient mechanics recognized forces as causes which produced motions as their immediate effects, looking no further than the essentially dual relation of cause and effect. That is why it could make no progress with dynamics. The work of Galileo and his successors lay in showing that forces are accelerations by which a state of velocity is gradually brought about. The words cause and effect still linger, but the old conceptions have been dropped from mechanical philosophy; for the fact now known is that in certain relative positions bodies undergo certain accelerations. Now an acceleration, instead of being like a velocity a relation between two successive positions, is a relation between three; so that the new doctrine has consisted in the suitable introduction of the conception of Threeness. On this idea, the whole of modern physics is built. The superiority of modern geometry, too, has certainly been due to nothing so much as to the bridging over of the innumerable distinct cases with which the ancient science was encumbered; and we may go so far as to say that all the great steps in the method of science in every department have consisted in bringing into relation cases previously discrete. [/quote] — Charles S. Peirce, “A Guess at the Riddle”, MS 909 (1887–88). • First published in CP 1.354–416. Reprinted in EP1, 245–279. • http://inquiryintoinquiry.com/2012/03/21/c-s-peirce-%E2%80%A2-a-guess-at-the-riddle/ Regards, Jon -- academia: http://independent.academia.edu/JonAwbrey inquiry list: http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/ mwb: http://www.mywikibiz.com/Directory:Jon_Awbrey oeiswiki: http://www.oeis.org/wiki/User:Jon_Awbrey word press blog 1: http://jonawbrey.wordpress.com/ word press blog 2: http://inquiryintoinquiry.com/ - You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the PEIRCE-L listserv. To remove yourself from this list, send a message to lists...@listserv.iupui.edu with the line SIGNOFF PEIRCE-L in the body of the message. To post a message to the list, send it to PEIRCE-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
