PARIS, Sept 10 (AFP) - A leading US economist has called on IMF
head Michel Camdessus to resign over the institute's poor handling
of the Russian economic crisis, saying the IMF's actions had
contributed to the chaos.
Jeffrey Sachs, director of the Harvard Institute for
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Friends,
Isn't it the prediction, rather than the abstraction, that is at issue
here. If Marx were alive, I doubt he'd think much needed to be revised
in terms of the abstraction, and he'd sure have a lot of
[NOTE: Just to humor (or should I say humour) the thinly
disguised disdain of The Economist's editorial
staff for trade-unionism, as a card-carrying
member of the American Federation of Teachers
(AFL-CIO), I can confirm that
Barkley,
Well we don't disagree at all. Certainly not everyone who came to
America was thinking how do we exterminate Indians. And despite any
original intentions, the system, and those who ran it, clearly
articulated, and articulate in their classified documents today, the
intention of
"In 1910 Japan annexed Korea resulting in the bitter
hostility between Koreans and Japanese that persists today.
Economic growth accelerated and modernizing reforms
were carried out to integrate Korea into the Japanese
empire in a subordinate position. Among these were the
--- Begin Forwarded Message ---
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 17:33:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: "LYNN TURGEON, PROFESSOR EMERITUS OF ECONOMICS,
HOFSTRA UNIVERSITY, [EMAIL PROTECTED]"
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Hyperinflation Bogeyman
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: POST-KEYNESIAN THOUGHT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If I in any way miscontrued or misunderstood your position or confused with
with Barkley's I sincerely apologize.
No problem.
I do not believe that in my response to either you or Barkley I was hurling
invective as I tried to present my position with supporting evidence and/or
reasoning and/or
Max,
If I in any way miscontrued or misunderstood your position or
confused with with Barkley's I sincerely apologize.
I do not believe that in my response to either you or Barkley I was
hurling invective as I tried to present my position with supporting
evidence and/or reasoning and/or
Bill Lear:
I respectfully disagree with nearly every syllable of the above. You
label Parecon "utopian" based on the formula given by Marx and Engels
--- which really boils down to "It's not Marxism, so it must be
Utopian, therefore not worthy of consideration".
Of course I label Parecon
With all due respect Max, this is why this Jewish exclusivism vis-a-vis ONE
Holocausts and ONE group of victims that were unique in that they were
specifically targeted for extermination is so pernicious and feels for
other victims of THE Holocaust or victims of other Holocausts exactly how
the
On Thu, September 10, 1998 at 14:19:18 (-0400) Louis Proyect writes:
...
Okay, let's examine what Hahnel writes:
-
Do we want to try and measure the value of each person's contribution to
social production and allow individuals to withdraw from social production
accordingly? Or do we want to
On Thu, September 10, 1998 at 12:04:49 (-0400) Mike Yates writes:
Friends,
I concur with Jim's assessment of Robin's analysis. Why is it that so
many people do not grasp Marx's use of abstraction? You would think that
economists, trained in neoclasical abstraction, would understand it
without
On Thu, September 10, 1998 at 08:31:03 (-0700) James Devine writes:
Robin Hahnel writes a lot of stuff I agree with. But I missed where he
wrote about how the capitalists (and other elite groups) would use dirty
tricks and violence to undermine and wipe out the mass democratic movement
for
PILGRIM'S PROGRESS
Paul Watson allies with a far-right Republican in his fight against aboriginal whaling
by: M-J Milloy
HOUR Magazine
Montreal, Quebec
10.9.98/ page 12
www.afterhour.com
It took the early white missionaries and explorers weeks to navigate the rugged
coastline of northern
Gar Lipow wrote:
The
fact that what is good in this excerpt cannot be summarized in a
paragraph is one reason I forwarded it.
Okay, let's examine what Hahnel writes:
-
Do we want to try and measure the value of each person's contribution to
social production and allow individuals to
And don't forget Yahoo's world markets page, at
http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u, updated all day. You can get charts and news
from that page too.
Doug
If you really want to have a laugh, go to http://quote.yahoo.com/ and hit
reload every 5 seconds or so. You will see the D-J, now down 315 points,
Gary Dymski wrote:
By the way, for those interested in checking out some of the trends:
A really interesting source for such gawking, if an incomplete one for
developing markets, is www. bigcharts.com, which readily pulls up
historical data in graphical form.
And don't forget Yahoo's world
Tom Walker asked me what was going on in Brazil, since I'd just visited
and talked with many economists. Thought this might be of more general
interest.
Wrote Tom:
My impression from just looking at the newswire numbers was that the focus
of the storm was shifting to Brazil. What does it look
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Friends,
I concur with Jim's assessment of Robin's analysis. Why is it that so
many people do not grasp Marx's use of abstraction? You would think that
economists, trained in neoclasical abstraction, would
Response to Max:
With all due respect Max, this is why this Jewish exclusivism
vis-a-vis ONE Holocausts and ONE group of victims that were unique in
that they were specifically targeted for extermination is so
pernicious and feels for other victims of THE Holocaust or victims of
other
Regarding:
Max Sawicky:
But other historical episodes which
culminated in the mass slaughter of
an ethnic group, a religious group,
or of a nation did not entail an
intent to bring about that result.
The enslavement of Africans in the
Western Hemisphere would seem to be
a good example.
What of
Jokes are also a way of releasing aggression in a way more socially
acceptable than punching someone in the nose. Most leftish writing these
days is as dull as dirt precisely because it's so shy about aggression and
the risk of being offensive.
Watcha got against dirt, Henwood?
Tom Kruse /
--- Forwarded Message Follows ---
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 07:14:05 -0800
To:(Recipient list suppressed)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (S.I.S.I.S.)
Subject: BC's Round Lake Treatment Center Sex-abuse Case
NATIVE DRUG CENTRE FACES SEX-ABUSE SUIT
Vancouver Sun,
This headline from the CBS marketwatch wire:
IMF'S FISCHER: LATIN AMERICAN FUNDAMENTALS BETTER THAN RUSSIA
"Prosperity is just around the corner."
"We're beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel."
"I am not a crook."
"I never had sexual relations with that woman."
Regards,
Tom
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
-- =_NextPart_000_01BDDCB5.D5997790
BLS DAILY REPORT, WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 9, 1998
With high-technology industries particularly hard hit, the pace at
**The Wealth (and Poverty) of Nations
**The global economic pie may be expanding, but the poor are getting an
even smaller slice
NEW YORK: Cheer up, all you Marxists. Communism may have collapsed, but you
were right about one thing: The rich are still getting richer and the poor
are still
There is no question for me that the net effect of
what has happened to Indians has been genocidal. But a
significant portion of this was pretty unconscious and
essentially accidental, if "convenient" for the invaders.
Before I start, I want to acknowledge that
I have no expertise on
Quoth the Rob of Oz, in part:
Just a note on jokes - a harsh joke is great shorthand sometimes. And I do
believe the intentions of the joker and what it is that's funny about it
very much depend on the context of the telling - ..
Two Aborigines walking down the road
James Devine wrote:
I don't think that a joke about something condones that activity. Gallows
humor has always been a part of human life, part of human efforts to
survive the absurdity and cruelty of society and many of our fellow human
beings.
Jokes are also a way of releasing aggression in a
G'day Penners,
Frank writes some compelling stuff about Russia that remind me of an
interesting idea I picked up somewhere over the weekend (at which time my
post got lost somewhere in cyberspace). In short, the idea is to project
Rusia's crisis on to the world economy as a whole. Frank wrote:
G'day Jim'n'Jim,
Just a note on jokes - a harsh joke is great shorthand sometimes. And I do
believe the intentions of the joker and what it is that's funny about it
very much depend on the context of the telling - Wittgenstein insisted each
communicative act is a 'speech game' (sprachspiel)
Max Sawicky:
Obviously the Nazi intent encompassed
other populations than Jews, and this
truth is neglected by many Jews. But
other historical episodes which
culminated in the mass slaughter of
an ethnic group, a religious group,
or of a nation did not entail an
intent to bring about that
September 10, 1998
ECONOMIC SCENE
What's an Ailing Economy to Do?
By MICHAEL M. WEINSTEIN
The International Monetary Fund, having bailed out Thailand, Indonesia,
South Korea and Russia over the last 15 months, is nearly out of money, and
Congress is not yet rushing to its defense. But its
Robin Hahnel writes a lot of stuff I agree with. But I missed where he
wrote about how the capitalists (and other elite groups) would use dirty
tricks and violence to undermine and wipe out the mass democratic movement
for socialism that he (and I) advocate. (I recommend "How the Change Came"
in
Thomas Kruse wrote:
Jokes are also a way of releasing aggression in a way more socially
acceptable than punching someone in the nose. Most leftish writing these
days is as dull as dirt precisely because it's so shy about aggression and
the risk of being offensive.
Watcha got against dirt,
At 09:04 AM 9/10/98 -0700, Tom wrote:
Given the inevitability of capitalist crises (emphasis on the plural) and
the non-inevitablity of socialism, would it be possible to clearly outline
the conditions of under which stabilization and resumption of dynamic
capitalist development become
Since I have such a personal and political dislike for Hahnel and Albert,
and since I am trying to turn over a new leaf and be the most popular guy
on the Internet, I have waited until the last minute to say a few words
about "Parecon."
But how can one not see how irrelevant it is at this point
I sent a small excerpt from a much longer Robin Hahnel argument to
three lists. Thanks to midnight posting syndrome, I forgot to add the
URL to the entire article when I sent the excerpt. For those who are
interested, the entire article can be found at
http://www.zmag.org/hahdefpe.htm .
Note
What of intentions? Doe it matter it the agressors intended to commit
genocide or not? As a matter of historical record, sure. But what about in
teaching history, trying to draw lessons?
The guilt of individuals not acting in
concert but doing similar, inhumane
things is one matter. The
The sports media has mentioned that Mark McGuire hit homer number 61 on his
dad's 61st birthday. I was wondering if anyone had seen anything yet about
how Kieko the whale (of 'Free Willy' fame) was flown to Iceland on the same
day that Starr's report was delivered to Congress? My guess is there
I wrote But if capitalism fits Marx's abstract description, the
prediction works better. It seems to be working pretty well these days,
even in the "first world."
Bill Lear writes:
I disagree: what we are witnessing is not the meltdown of the system.
I wasn't talking about a _meltdown_. I was
Brazil's Bovespa falls 15.09 pct,
trading halted
SAO PAULO, Sept 10 (Reuters) - Brazilian shares plummeted at
1626 local/1926 GMT, triggering the circuit-breaker for the
second time Thursday and halting trading for an hour, the exchange said.
Sao Paulo's key Bovespa index tumbled to 4,802
Louis,
I noted in my original post that there certainly were
cases of "smallpox blankets" and conscious and often
successful efforts at extermination. That is not the same
thing as saying (as you appeared to do) that (nearly) all
immigrants to the Western Hemisphere came with such
Tom Walker wrote:
Tommorrow, September 11, 1998 is the 25th anniversary of the coup in Chile.
When Neruda died during the coup, my late father wrote the following:
Neruda
I will not mourn for Neruda, no crooked cross
Can foul his dreams with the stench
Of graveyard breath, the albatross
Will
Marty,
I was under the impression that in both Korea and
Taiwan land reform was made easier because much of it
involved dispossessing Japanese landlords.
Barkley Rosser
On Thu, 27 Aug 1998 16:04:45 -0700 (PDT) Martin
Hart-Landsberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just a quick response to
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From wrl Thu Sep 10 06:57:23 1998
Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thu, 10 Sep 1998 06:47:47 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Thu, 10 Sep 1998 09:55:40 -0400
To: (Recipient list
On Wed, 26 Aug 1998, Louis Proyect wrote:
The
aftermath led to introspective discussions about blacks and jews, such as
the kind found in book co-edited by Paul Berman and Cornel West.
By any chance do you mean *Blacks and Jews* by West and the loathesome
Michael Lerner?
frances
Max,
I agree with what you are saying and see--possibly--where it is
coming from. But you know, the highest tribute and honor to the
victims of the nazi Holocaust--Jewish and non-Jewish-- is to learn
and apply the lessons (paid for with horrible suffering and death)
that flow inexorably
On Thu, September 10, 1998 at 15:55:15 (-0400) Louis Proyect writes:
The key to utopian thought is that it projects a
socialist system that is not rooted in the class struggle. ...
ParEcon envisions removing private control over the means of
production, hence by definition a
Jim,
I am well aware of the atrocities you cite and the
especial obnoxiousness of Columbus. But his voyage(s) were
at the front end of a long process. Those atrocities were
for establishing control of and dominating the local
populations, not for total extermination. Those sources
"Social Democracy thought fit to assign to the working class the role of the
redeemer of future generations, in this way cutting the sinews of its
greatest strength. This training made the working class forget both its
hatred and its spirit of sacrifice, for both are nourished by the image of
Louis, you are ignoring about 90% of the excerpt.
In addition to the Parecon specific parts what about:
It is nonsensical for progressives to denigrate pre-capitalist
cultures and applaud when capitalism replaces older cooperative
institutions with competitive behavior patterns, as
.. . . For example, Keynesian policies worked for quite awhile in the US, but
contributed in a big way to the stagflation crisis of the 1970s.)
We seem to have some area of agreement
here between you and BDL, which puts
you (and he) in good company, but on
the basis of an apparently flaky
Since Louis invoked my name and because I don't really want to grade
economics problem sets, here are a couple of comments.
Louis writes:
This is the same old crapola. It is a variation of the sort of silly
discussions that take place ad nauseum on Usenet: how can socialism work.
The people who
In this case your hatred of HA (which at one point led to you confuse
the two with one another) has led you to overlook that excerpt I
forwarded has a hell of a lot of relevance to things other than
Parecon. I forwarded specifically because it has good strategic points
in general; I think it is
Jim Devine wrote,
I've studied crisis theory a bit (and seemingly a bit more than Robin).
Some of the theories are wrong, some are right, often in different
situations. In my work, I've tried to synthesize the valid aspects of them.
I won't bore people with the details. But the key point is that
Thanks for the post, Louis. One point reminded me of one thing. QUoting:
There is, however, one effective remedy on which most economists agree.
Russia and other besieged countries cannot pay off their Western loans.
Just as debt relief was the key to South America's recovery in the 1980s,
At 08:31 AM 9/10/98 -0700, I wrote:
Robin Hahnel writes:Marx's prophesy of economic emiseration did not prove
true for the first
world.
I wish leftists wouldn't imitate the right's labeling of Marx as a prophet
and his predictions as "prophecies." Marx's prediction of _relative_
immiseration
Gary Dymski wrote,
I am sorry for bursting in late to what has probably been a party. I was
in Brazil for 10 days, giving some talks on financial crisis and developments
in the global financial system. I did a pretty brutal triage on my stored-up
pen-l mail on my return, and don't know if
Date: Wed, 09 Sep 1998 15:33:09 -0700
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: James Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:41] Re: Re: rude jokes heard at lunch
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I don't think that a joke about something condones that activity. Gallows
== There are those who begin to speak prose and eventually know that
(apologies to Moliere) without necessarily having read a lick of Marx.
It often takes someone with an Olympian perch, and it's better when
s/he owns that perch outright.
At the time of his death a little over a
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