Louis,
Minor detail. A deceleration of growth, that is a
slowdown in a positive growth rate is not the same
thing as "economic decline." That is currently happening
in Japan and would be a negative growth rate.
Barkley Rosser
-Original Message-
From: Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tom Walker wrote:
Doug is not going to like my questioning of bourgeois statistics.
It's fine with me. Bourgeois economic statistics are designed to measure
life under capitalism, and they do a fairly good job of it. They don't tell
you anything about alienation, atomization, overwork, or
Doug,
How much of this stuff would Clinton have
done if the Dems had retained control of the
US Congress? (quite a bit of it, I think, but not
all of it)
Barkley
-Original Message-
From: Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Friday, April 30,
It should be borne in mind that Havel has no credibility any more among
people who know what is happening in the Czech Republic. He was
courageous in his opposition to the communist regime; now he fronts for
those who have looted his country. Any hypocrisy in international
affairs is merely
Actually I just read that Representative Blagojevich
from Ilinois is of Serbian descent. He was the one who
early on was floating a partition proposal. He is part of
some delegation that is going over there.
Again, I would reserve the word "partition" for the
idea of dividing up
At 06:23 PM 4/29/99 -0400, Michael Hoover wrote:
watching the debate and vote on this matter on C-SPAN last evening, I
couldn't help but notice that 'socialist' Bernie Sanders voted for the
resolution to sanction the bombing...how fortunate that there aren't
more leftists like him in the
Charles to Wojtek:
Again I do not think that there is an overall master plan or capitalist
conspiracy to take over CEE. I view it as a rather incoherent process of
muddling through, with no master plan, no coherent strategy, conflicting
interests, great uncertainty, and even greater short-term
"J. Barkley Rosser, Jr." wrote
Again, I would reserve the word "partition" for the
idea of dividing up Kosovo-Metohija somehow, not a
separation of some sort of the whole province from Serbia.
This would keep our discussion clear. The example to think
of is Bosnia-Herzegovina which has
Tom Walker wrote:
Doug is not going to like my questioning of bourgeois statistics.
Doug replied:
It's fine with me. Bourgeois economic statistics are designed to measure
life under capitalism, and they do a fairly good job of it. They don't tell
you anything about alienation, atomization,
Brother and sister Genossen, the time has come (a tad early because
I'm presently telnetting from a cyber-cafe' that's awash in pseudo-Sinatra
yuppie music). Let's hope I do this right.
Further comment to the list will be infrequent, and posted at the whim
of the member to whom it's sent.
1. The general picture over the past ten
to fifteen years has been one of failure
to accomplish the growth-rates of
the post-WWII period.
2. BOOMING CONSUMPTION AGAIN LEADS GROWTH
In both cases, the numbers rely on the book keeping fiction that for one
particular "commodity" n = -n. Doug is
I was going to do a column today on the connections between NATO's war and the
massacre in Colorado, using Clinton's speech on teaching our children that violence is
not an acceptable way to resolve conflict and Hillary's statement on violent video
games where you get more points based on how
Max Sawicky wrote:
I've gotten worse from HCKL in the past and didn't complain, but I'm not
gonna bother him any more; he takes the fun out of it.
Give an example or evidence what you got from me in the past that justifies your
making fun of my name.
BTW, if you had pronounced my name LIU
At 06:23 PM 4/29/99 -0400, Michael Hoover wrote:
watching the debate and vote on this matter on C-SPAN last evening, I
couldn't help but notice that 'socialist' Bernie Sanders voted for the
resolution to sanction the bombing...how fortunate that there aren't
more leftists like him in the
Date sent: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 02:51:39 EDT
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: PROGRESSIVE SOCIOLOGISTS NETWORK [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Re: an A-Z of US aggression
Originally to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
An A-Z of US
(copyright 1999, Microsoft)
today's papers
China Syndrome
By Scott Shuger
For the first time in weeks, the domestic economy leads at one of the
majors. The LAT leads with the government's report that the first quarter's
growth of wages, salaries and benefits was unexpectedly slow, which is
In fact, in one of my posting to lbo-talk I hypothesized that the Euro
social democrats willingness to go to a war on "human rights" issue was an
effort to divert the public attention from their inability to deliver on
their electoral promises of changing the neo-liberal policies. Afraid that
Doug,
While you are at it, don't forget Clinton's encouragement of the re-emergence of
Japanese militarism, the selling of arms to Taiwan, and authorized the Asia TMD
(Theatre Missile Defense) system, sparking a new arms race. The Dems has been
accused as being the party of war, but they do
Greetings to all you born-again Republicans, relieved we don't have more
Bernie Sanders' and fewer Pat Buchanans, lest the air war vote have been
decided in favor of the Clinton Administration.
Actually, if I had a vote I might have voted nay as well, in protest over
Clinton's conduct of this
I don't quite get the connection here between economic stagnation in
Western Europe and bombing Belgrade. What do you think it is?
Doug
Final paragraphs of Sean Gervasi's "Why Nato is in Yugoslavia", at:
http://www.mclink.it/assoc/fondpasti/nato/gerv-e.htm
When closely considered, the proposal
I don't disagree about the main purpose of NATO, but I suspect that the
eastward expansion of NATO has a great deal to with the expansion of the demand
for American arms manufactures. I understand NATO has been pushing its new
members by more U.S. fighter planes.
Louis Proyect wrote:
The main
I thought Milton's heaven had as its materialist basis capitalist free markets
and as its pyschological basis self-interest :)
Cheers, Ken Hanly
Carrol Cox wrote:
Thomas Kruse wrote:
Here's a very healthy anti-dote to much of the spin on Columbine High. As
a non-jock whose school was
NATO has always been a conventional arms organization. In the post-Cold War
environment strategic nuclear arms control is in danger of becoming nuclear
disarmament, a fundamental shift in the role of arms control being the effect
deterrent to disarmament.
The aggression by NATO against a
Wojtek wrote:
- it is patently false. The current institutional design is based on two
developments, the institutional designed developed under central planning
and the interplay of occupational and professional interests under the
central planning regime (for the primer see Konrad and
Received this, this am from a little-bit of an Ohio politician that I
had no idea was of Yugo Serbian ancestry...
Tom,
"Thanks for sending along your posts on the crisis in the Balkans. I
have seen
some of them, but not others...so I appreciate your periodic messages.
This
tragedy has special
DH:
Lemme get this straight, Max. The Dems are now the
party of the IMF and imperial war.
I don't buy the first premise, so that which follows from it is
irrelevant.
The principal problem with the IMF is the conditions it attaches
to loans. Dems in Congress are not necessarily enthusiastic
Interesting that Havel claims that the world is moving away from the naton-state
concept while
he is president of a newly minted Czech state that resulted from the division of a
larger nation state. How does this brilliant observation fit in with the division
of Yugoslavia into umpteen nation
Yoshie's posting on Vuk Draskovic is a classic example. We used to call
those people "nomenklatura" - implying a list of names that would pop up
whenever a political opportunity arises, and saying the most opportune
things for the occasion (Milan Kundera's novel _The Joke_ contains a nice
The following is an expanded version of remarks I made a few days
ago on the marxism list.
I think I have mentioned Sartre's "On Genocide" in other posts.
His
core argument was that the Vietnam War was fought not primarily
over Viet Nam but over Latin America, which is and always has
Pen-l Friends,
While agreeing with much of Richter's commentary beow, I think he overlooks
the geopolitical implications of another Russia debt default to Western
creditors, who want to avoid a replay of the financial crisis last August.
Such a strategy must surely be related to an expanded
This is forwarded:
Reply-To: "Ray Bristow" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: "Ray Bristow" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Terry Riordon - died this morning.
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 22:17:24 +0100
Terry Riordon, 45 year old Gulf War Veteran. The first Canadian Veteran to
be tested for Uranium 238. Tested
Wojtek Sokolowski [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/30/99 03:55PM Again I do not think that
there is an overall master plan or capitalist
conspiracy to take over CEE. I view it as a rather incoherent process of
muddling through, with no master plan, no coherent strategy, conflicting
interests, great
Yoshie Furuhashi [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/29/99 05:50PM
An army of occupation (whether in
South Korea or the Balkans) basically exists to keep restive workers,
students, and other uppity elements under control, in case they demand even
a tiny degree of real self-determination (through reforms or
OTTAWA, April 29 (AFP) - Czech President Vaclav Havel said here Thursday
that human rights supersede the rights of states and justify NATO's attack
on the "genocidal regime" of Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic.
In a wide-ranging address to a joint meeting of Canada's two houses of
Doug:
I'm still mystified about the connection between Eurostagnation - which is
in large part a creation of policymakers, who've imposed tight money and
tight budgets to make the Euro hard and to break European labor - and
cruise missiles. And this:
You are describing a Europe that is being
Max Sawicky wrote:
The principal problem with the IMF is the conditions it attaches
to loans.
But that's their raison d'etre! It's like saying the problem with
bloodletting is the overuse of leeches.
Doug
Thomas Kruse wrote:
Here's a very healthy anti-dote to much of the spin on Columbine High. As
a non-jock whose school was divided between athletes and non-athletes, this
rings true. By pointing attention to the collective culture, it also helps
to see how the enemy is in us, not "out
Doug to Max:
The principal problem with the IMF is the conditions it attaches
to loans.
But that's their raison d'etre! It's like saying the problem with
bloodletting is the overuse of leeches.
Now the IMF doesn't even make a gesture of 'making a loan'; it merely
imposes conditions. For
Date sent: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 00:25:28 +0200
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: "Konstantin Borodinsky" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: WORLD SYSTEMS NETWORK [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:citation
Originally to: "WORLD SYSTEMS NETWORK" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
This might
Yoshie,
Maybe "self-determination" is an illusion, but I
don't see why some kind of limited "autonomy" would
be so. As your post notes there is disagreement over
the nature of any peacekeeping force (or whatever term
you would prefer to use) that would be there. But we now
see a lot of de
Foreign Policy In Focus: Bombs Away
May 1999
Vol.4, No.13
Written by Tom Barry, Codirector, Foreign Policy in Focus Program
Edited by Martha Honey (IPS)
Key Points
o The bombing of Yugoslavia was not authorized by the UN.
o The dynamics of conflict and intervention in the Balkans
Louis Proyect wrote:
When you consider that this analysis is coming from the intellectual
servants of the ruling class, it is remarkable that there has been so
little effort among Marxists or "progressive economists" to understand
things in the same sort of systematic fashion. As I have stated,
"'We're not inflicting pain on these fuckers,' Clinton said, softly at
first. 'When people kill us, they should be killed in greater numbers.'
Then, with his face reddening, his voice rising, and his fist pounding
his thigh, he leaned into Tony [Lake, then his national security
adviser], as if it
Carrol,
Sure. Kosovo-Metohija is by far the poorest part
of the current Serbia (Vojvodina is the richest part).
The only things Kosmet has are those mines, a lot of
historical and religious monuments, and a bunch of
unruly and resentful and rebellious people. Frankly,
the Serbs ought to
Have you guys seen these? Any comments?
"The Kosovo Liberation Army: Does Clinton Policy Support Group with Terror,
Drug Ties?"
http://www.senate.gov/~rpc/releases/1999/fr033199.htm
Yoshie
if anybody can recognize a drug running operation used to finance
armaments, it should be the
Paul,
Thanks. That about does it. I did not remember that
Milosevic was president of Yugoslavia prior to this term,
but maybe he was. I think that the current president of
Serbia is MIlan Milutinovic (sp?), if I have that right, who
switched positions with Milosevic a while ago.
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 13:42:13 -0400 (EDT)
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: "Vaik Yousefi" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:Multiple recipients of list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
GENEVA (Associated Press, April 30)
The U.N.'s human rights chief today denounced Serb
Doug wrote:
I'm still mystified about the connection between Eurostagnation - which is
in large part a creation of policymakers, who've imposed tight money and
tight budgets to make the Euro hard and to break European labor - and
cruise missiles.
Won't a prolonged Balkan war, especially if it
I did not see a list of who voted yes and no in the Post. Was there a
list in the NYTimes? Or can someone post an easy web address for the
vote? I'd like to see how Bernie Sanders voted, for one.
http://clerkweb.house.gov/evs/1999/index.asp
Louis Proyect
Henry made a useful point. Get a K Liu is clever, but it can also be
insulting.
I've gotten worse from HCKL in the past and didn't complain, but I'm not
gonna bother him any more; he takes the fun out of it. And Hoover called me
icky. Get it? Icky Sawicky.
Big guys have feelings too.
Does anyone know enough about Serbia toanswer this question.
Would Serbia be a viable political and economic unit without Kosovo?
Carrol
I'm sure that I don't know enough but:
Kosovo has always been the poorest region in Yugoslavia despite having
considerable mineral and fuel reserves...30
While it's becoming increasingly clear that the domestic imperatives in the
US with regards to Kosovo are to placate Arms sales, we've paid little
attention to realpolotik issues of immediate concern to the US, Britain and
Germany; all of whom will suffer from full EMU 1/1/2002. Rants about
At 11:30 PM 4/29/99 -0700, Max wrote:
Remind me again, who's left and who's right?
Disoriented,
you have to remember that most leftists on this list long ago rejected the
vision of tellingthe sheep to chant "Democrats GOOD, Republicans BD."
To kill a simile I use too often, the GOPsters can
Forwarded message:
From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Apr 30 17:36:25 1999
Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Unverified)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 10:41:37 -0700
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Sid Shniad [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Cuban Bank Chief Touts
J. Barkley Rosser, Jr. wrote:
How much of this stuff would Clinton have
done if the Dems had retained control of the
US Congress? (quite a bit of it, I think, but not
all of it)
Clinton never did anything to campaign for Congressional Democrats - quite
the contrary, he triangulated
Now the IMF doesn't even make a gesture of 'making a loan'; it merely
imposes conditions. For instance:
Yoshie
Call It Democracy/Bruce Cockburn
padded with power here they come
interntional loan sharks backed by the guns
of market hungry military profiteers
whose word is a swamp and whose is
Why is it that with the West locked in an intractable economic crisis, stock
markets set new records from day to day? For countries such as the US and
Canada there doesn't seem to
be any huge economic crisis. Shouldn't it be the Asian tigers expanding into
Eastern Europe )
I really don't think
Carrol Cox wrote:
S Pawlett wrote:
All arguments are subject to counter-arguments. One person's modus
tollens is another persons modus podens. One person's transcendental
argument is another's petitio principii.
As a mere empirical observation that in every situation there is bound
Forwarded message:
From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Apr 30 23:50:43 1999
Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
X-Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Unverified)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1999 14:32:51 -0700
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Sid Shniad [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: U.S. FIRMS POISED TO
Wojtek wrote:
Michael, I am somewhat nonplussed that US-ers still get excited about such
maneuvers. I think we, Eastern Europeans are more street wise in this
respect - we simply do not trust politicians no matter what they profess,
because it is quite clear to us that whatever they profess
Robert Naiman wrote:
The House vote was as close as could be. The resolution
supporting the bombing failed 213-213. Twenty-six Democrats
voted against the Administration and against the bombing.
This group included some of the most progressive Members of
the House, like Dennis Kucinich,
Max Sawicky wrote:
Greetings to all you born-again Republicans, relieved we don't have more
Bernie Sanders' and fewer Pat Buchanans, lest the air war vote have been
decided in favor of the Clinton Administration.
Actually, if I had a vote I might have voted nay as well, in protest over
Louis Proyect wrote:
I don't quite get the connection here between economic stagnation in
Western Europe and bombing Belgrade. What do you think it is?
Doug
Final paragraphs of Sean Gervasi's "Why Nato is in Yugoslavia", at:
http://www.mclink.it/assoc/fondpasti/nato/gerv-e.htm
I'm still
c'right, Microsoft, 1999.
chatterbox
Conspiracy of Silence
By Timothy Noah
Does Rotisserie baseball have blood on its hands? In the days since
the Littleton, Colo., high-school massacre, the media has blamed
the killings on almost every aspect of contemporary life: guns,
rock music, bad
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
Won't a prolonged Balkan war, especially if it spreads, make the Euro soft
and Euro labor rise up against soc-dem-cum-neoliberals?
The euro had a bad day today, falling to an all-time low against the
dollar. A short-lived peace rumor caused it to rally, but it sank again
GDP BYTE 4/30/99
BOOMING CONSUMPTION AGAIN LEADS GROWTH
The growth in consumption again outpaced income,
producing another quarter of very strong GDP
growth. The overall rate of GDP growth in the
first quarter was 4.5 percent. This is down from
the 6.0 percent rate in the previous quarter,
At 01:05 PM 4/30/99 -0400, Lou wrote:
I don't quite get the connection here between economic stagnation in
Western Europe and bombing Belgrade. What do you think it is?
Doug
Final paragraphs of Sean Gervasi's "Why Nato is in Yugoslavia", at:
http://www.mclink.it/assoc/fondpasti/nato/gerv-e.htm
Here is a piece detailing some of the economic consquences of the
war. I should think that unless the fuel situation improves there
will be problems not only with fertilizer in the agricultural
area but also fuel for planting. Dinkic neglects to mention the
devastation of livestock in Kosovo as
The Washington Post
December 19, 1995, Tuesday, Final Edition
U.S. Builds Arc of Alliances to Contain Serbia's Power
BYLINE: John Pomfret, Washington Post Foreign Service
DATELINE: Belgrade
In an effort to ensure that war does not return to the Balkans during or
after a year-long
--- Forwarded Message Follows ---
Date sent: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:37:37 -0700
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Sid Shniad [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:THE DANGER OF A WIDER WAR AND THE CHANCE FOR A WIDER PEACE -
Robin
At 10:37 AM 4/30/99 -0400, Lou Proyect wrote:
You have to read between the lines and you also have to read the entire
article. It makes these basic points, which are interconnected:
Lou, thanks for the clarification. I tend to agree with the point claiming
the inability of the existing
Blagojevich arranged the visit to FRY of Rev. Jesse Jackson and other
religious leaders. They visited the US. POWs but it seems they will not be
able to secure their release. Their arrival was celebrated by the most severe
bombing of Belgrade so far. They are meeting also with leaders of
--- Forwarded Message Follows ---
Date sent: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 17:19:49 -0700
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Sid Shniad [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:ANNAN HITS AT NATO RAIDS, SAYS SOLUTION MUST BE POLITICAL
Agence France Presse
Max Sawicky [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/30/99 02:38PM
On another front, anybody remember HeCKeL and Jeckel?
mbs
Hey Max, remember when you asked me to "lighten up" because you were feeling
vicitmized by my joke about you (see below).
In your own words, "lighten up", Max,
Max Sawicky wrote:
The principal problem with the IMF is the conditions
it attaches to loans.
But that's their raison d'etre! It's like saying the
problem with bloodletting is the overuse of leeches.
Doug
The object of your critique was not the IMF but Democrats.
If most Democrats
At 01:13 PM 4/29/99 -0700, Jim Devine wrote:
At 03:14 PM 4/29/99 -0500, Ken wrote:
... I think the solution is simple. Milosoevic
should use the southern sites as shields for tanks or guns. NATO will
destroy
both site (collateral damage) and military object (legitimate target).
Milosevich will be
MESSAGE TO THE WORKERS OF EUROPA AND THE USA
From VALERY POPOV,
vice-president of the union committee of factory TMZ Yaroslavl, Russia
March 31 1999
As a simple worker from one of the big factories of Russia I want to speak
to our brothers and sisters, to the workers from USA, from England,
At 04:05 PM 4/29/99 -0400, Louis Proyect wrote:
prevailed. The process of democratization was based either on historical
experience (the Czech Republic from 1918 to 1938), the record of resistance
to Communist rule (Solidarity in Poland), or the origins of a genuine
multiparty system under
In general I find the whole piece being more in the tone of an after dinner
talk for foundation liberals than a serious institutional analysis.
Wojtek
You have to read between the lines and you also have to read the entire
article. It makes these basic points, which are interconnected:
1)
Date sent: Thu, 29 Apr 1999 15:32:46 -0400 (EDT)
Send reply to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Joanne Naiman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: PROGRESSIVE SOCIOLOGISTS NETWORK [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Rambouillet "agreement" was a set-up - like Czechoslovakia in 1938!
Ever heard of a monkey going bananas over booze? Here's the
story
about one. Every day, for the past six months, a small yet
distinguished simian has been coming to the Gole market area of
New
the bus conductor's feet and then
81 matches
Mail list logo
