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Peter Dorman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/25/99 05:08PM
I hesitate to get into this, but I'm on record as having posted that
Brad's satire was hilarious. Which it was. The humor has nothing to do
with Chinese culture; it is a spoof of a certain type of Marxism known
all over the world.
Carrol Cox wrote:
Reference Doug's post on Zizek on Ideology.
This is defining one use of the word. Clearly there are not enough words
in English to confine any word to one usage. The word "ideology" will
often have to be used in senses different from or even contradictory to
the sense(s)
The Independent, 27 June 1999
Propaganda wars: Phillip Knightley places the Kosovo atrocity stories in
their historical context
If history is any guide, then many of the atrocity stories from Kosovo that
have dominated the media since the end of the war will turn out to be
false. Written and
I now live and work in New York, the capital of capitalism, Marxists do not dismiss or
deny capitalism. Marxists recognize capitalism's contribution in a historical context.
It is a neccessary phase in human development towards socialism.
In fact, Chinese Marxists are now claiming that it was
Correction: Racism and anti-Marxism are mutually exclusive.
It should read NOT mutually exclusive.
"Henry C.K. Liu" wrote:
Charles Brown wrote:
Peter Dorman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/25/99 05:08PM
I hesitate to get into this, but I'm on record as having posted that
Brad's satire was
Ricardo Duchesne wrote:
Blaut's position is a lot narrower than this. His Colonizer's Model
is a blanket criticism of any argument which suggests that
Europe was able to industrialize first because of "cultural
differences". But drawing such differences is essential to any
serious
[PEN-L'ers might find this post to the Marxism list interesting in light of
last week's thread on the subject.]
Louis,
I think citing IBM as a foretaste of what will eventually happen to a
mature PC industry (or better yet, a mature digital economy) is probably
right. Sooner or later, the
True. Yet differences are just differences. Ranking is another matter. There
are undeniable differences among people and culture, but we are all morally and
humanly equal. The more technically or culturally advanced people are different
but not better than their less developed
Jim Blaut's paper doesn't say that they are. In fact, it explicitly says,
"It is one thing to respect
culture, and to appreciate cultural differences, and quite another thing to
rank human groups on cultural criteria, and to claim then that you have
explained history" (emphasis mine). T
-Original Message-
From: Brad De Long [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 9:47 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:8414] Re: Re: Re: racism
Charles: Yes, I know it was an insult against Marxists and that Brad
and Max felt they were only spoofing the Marxists.
Charles, this person has a right to hold incoherent views. It was not his
biased view that was racist, it was his manner of ridiculing something he
disagrees with that made it an racist act. Of course he is clever enough
to keep shifting his position. Note the standard counter attack and the
Rod Hay wrote:
My remarks had a very simple message. If Henry is going to accuse people on
this list of racism, he had better back it up.
It's an odd response, given that the paper in question was written by Jim
Blaut, not Henry.
Yoshie
Ricardo wrote:
Just to say a few words about David McNally, who was one of my
Ph.D supervisors at York University. He too completed his diss. at
York, where he teaches now, under Ellen Wood's supervision, who also
supervised Comninel. A revised version of his diss. was eventually
published
Yes, though if you consider that one of the main missions of the WB
today is the commodification of nature - putting the right price and
property regimes on the environment and resources - then you'd have
to strike the "marginally smaller extent."
Doug
We could keep doing what we have been
Ah, Yoshie, Jim is not nonwhite.
Singling out Henry is not racist, its just that any time racism is mentioned one
tends to think of that nonwhite trouble maker.
Its just free association, its not racist.
Or, its just funny, its not racist.
Henry
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
Rod Hay wrote:
My
-Original Message-
From: Louis Proyect [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 10:43 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:8421] Roemer
Jim Craven:
Instead of attempting to deal with their congitive dissonance problems
associated with building careers through
Doug wrote:
Actually Zizek gave three definitions in that passage, and I only
quoted his expanded definition of the first. Here's the nut graf
again:
"Hegel distinguished three moments: doctrine, belief, and ritual;
one, is thus tempted to dispose the multitude of notions associated
with the
Jose:
I think citing IBM as a foretaste of what will
eventually happen to a mature PC industry (or better yet, a
mature digital economy) is probably right. Sooner or later,
the explosive growth of the digital economy will slow, and
it is going to get one hell of a hangover.
I want to
Response:
If we could separate out the so-called "techniques" of neoclassical
economics from the overall Weltanschauung of neoclassical economics and from
the rhetorical intentions, real-world consequences and ugly interests served
of neoclassical economics, then I could see part of your point.
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
I agree that neoclassical economics is both a complex of ideas and a
material practice, but I think that neoclassical economics isn't the
'spontaneous' understanding of the world without qualifications. Not
everything solid melts into thin air, when it comes to gender,
I fail to get your point.
Simply, to talk about "undeniable" cultural differences is to make evaluations
about those differences, ranking not being far off .
True. Yet differences are just differences. Ranking is another matter. There
are undeniable differences among people
Doug wrote:
I'm prepared to attach big qualifications to the idea that
spontaneous understanding of the world in terms of NE is pretty
widespread, but there's a lot of it out there. And as for the
exceptions you name, there are plenty of bourgeois feminists who only
want women to be admitted as
Institute for Public Accuracy
915 National Press Building, Washington, D.C. 20045
(202) 347-0020 * http://www.accuracy.org * [EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
Monday, June 28, 1999
GORE AND AIDS DRUGS
Vice President Gore's role in setting policies for
Rod Hay wrote:
If neoclassical economics was totally bogus it would soon wither away.
That's just the problem. Instead what happens is that the residual truth
content of NC economics sustains an ever enlarging and more tenuously
connected bogus content in a kind of Gresham's law of doctrines.
Henry,
Yes, it seems something of an exaggeration to say Lin Biao was saying that all are to
think as one ABOUT EVERYTHING as, Brad sort of implies. The positive way to think
about "thinking as one" is UNITY. This is the type of unity necessary to overcome
European imperialism and domination.
Rod Hay wrote:
Ranking is human we can not avoid it. Every one likes some thing more that
others.
So you are saying Racism is human? You don't have to like us, just keep your
opinion to yourself. People are not things.
China's constant claim that others should not judge her abuses of
Charles wrote in response to the statement that "Racism is a serious charge
that should not be thrown around lightly":
The irony comes in with the post-Reagan,liberal-"lefts" who turn the new
gravity of the charge of racism into a basis for suppressing most charges
of racism. In effect they say,
JERK SEEKS CHICK: Stupid, lazy, insensitive, insecure SWM seeks
SWF. I hate the arts, travel, reading and anything new. I love
sitting, sleeping, drinking beer and TV. You are a former
cheerleader with a lobotomy, earn 100K, and would like nothing
more
Charles,
First of all, as I said at the very beginning, the Lin Biao piece was taken out of
context. A preface is a statemetn of adulation, not a critical analysis. People
likely to challenge a writer's view ususally are not asked or not accept an invitation
to write a preface. So to
Not true and not ncessary.
Ricardo Duchesne wrote:
I fail to get your point.
Simply, to talk about "undeniable" cultural differences is to make evaluations
about those differences, ranking not being far off .
True. Yet differences are just differences. Ranking is another matter.
Rod Hay wrote:
Wow, you must have a good thesaurus. I think it is a mistake to regard your
adversaries as idiots. They are not. If neoclassical economics was totally
bogus it would soon wither away.
No. Stupidity evolves also. Christianity and theism are totally bogus
and they have not
Henry,
Yes, it seems something of an exaggeration to say Lin Biao was
saying that all are to think as one ABOUT EVERYTHING as, Brad sort
of implies.
To me the most horrible thing is that it isn't *anything* of an exaggeration:
Mao Zedong thought is Marxism-Leninism of the era in
Yes, it seems something of an exaggeration to say Lin Biao was
saying that all are to think as one ABOUT EVERYTHING as, Brad sort
of implies.
No.
It is not an exaggeration.
Go reread your copy of the little red book:
Mao Zedong thought is Marxism-Leninism of the era in which
I've taken a look at the exchange on race on lbo, and it is quite
interesting to see what appears to be unintended effects of whiteness
studies. Three fragments on whiteness from lbo:
*
i thought that describing people who have a european ancestry as "anglo"
seemed a bit limiting. after
In short order rioting and looting will begin. All the Uzis the Chinese
have put in the hands of street gangs will appear. (Clinton didn't ask Zhu
Rongi about that, did he?) Americans will exterminate each other. The
Chinese will have a victory not unlike that of Gideon in the Bible, where
Quite an interesting practice, responding to people who aren't here.
Doug
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
I've taken a look at the exchange on race on lbo, and it is quite
interesting to see what appears to be unintended effects of whiteness
studies. Three fragments on whiteness from lbo:
*
i
Many establishments run by Albanians in Kosovo will now not
accept the dinar (FRY currency) as legal tender but only the
German mark. The so-called sovereignty of the FRY over Kosovo
is purely nominal. Are the UN administrators to ensure that FRY
laws apply in Kosovo? In what sense is Kosovo
Note the tactic of shifting the issue to one of protocol rather than substance.
true.
Very good post Yoshie!
Henry
Doug Henwood wrote:
Quite an interesting practice, responding to people who aren't here.
Doug
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
I've taken a look at the exchange on race on lbo, and
Peter Dorman wrote,
FWIW, I wrote a book about the neoclassical approach to calculating the
disutility of work what's wrong with it. (Markets and Mortality) There
is a theory out there, it is sophisticated, and I think it's wrong.
It's worth a lot to me. Would it be safe to take the
Original Message Follows
From: Sam Pawlett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
No. Stupidity evolves also. Christianity and theism are totally bogus
and they have not withered away. Because a majority of people believe
something to be true does not make it true. Marxism is withering away, does
that mean
That's the version of the theory that says you can read the willingness to pay
for disutility (such as physical risk) directly from wage data. There is a
somewhat softer version (which is critiqued in the book) that admits that labor
markets don't work this way, but through surveys ("contingent
On Monday, June 28, 1999 at 21:36:23 (-0400) Yoshie Furuhashi writes:
...
... Besides, it's nearly impossible to
discuss race on e-lists in any case, which I think has been proven before.
Yes, particularly when you blandly say things of the form "Asian
studies has
I was thinking of the endless repitition of S.M.'s war crimes.
Examples? I haven't heard anyone engage in mindless repetition of the
official line of the government...
Brad DeLong
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel.
At least Stern and Imus, unlike DeLong and Max, are honest and out front, and
they don't hide behind the love for freedom and democracy and independence of
mind. Read any of Kennedy's campaign speech, its not much different than the
Lin Biao preface. To quote a piece designed for exultation and
Quite an interesting practice, responding to people who aren't here.
Doug
I wish to have my observations remain observations about the effects of
whiteness studies. I don't see any point in responding to the individuals
who happen to say something typical. (I just thought those fragments are so
Craven, Jim wrote:
Just another pampered self-absorbed CV-building punk.
I am terribly disappointed. I have not gone to bed yet after my flight
from
Oz. Some of you are probably strong travellers, but not me.
I have just skimmed through a few of the posts -- a What sort of
strategy
Tom Lehman, who is not a racist, forwarded this to me. I have his
permission to post it on this list. He would appreciate some analysis.
Henry C.K. Liu
Dear Henry,
What do you make of this? Too racist and goofy---but some truth?
Tom
A middle-aged Asian-American in white suit and
FWIW, I wrote a book about the neoclassical approach to calculating the
disutility of work what's wrong with it. (Markets and Mortality) There is a
theory out there, it is sophisticated, and I think it's wrong.
Peter
Tom Walker wrote:
Case in point: I've asked the question three times "how
forwarded by Michael Hoover
"The [Florida Civil Rights Initiative committee]
has raised $100,000 to date, most of it coming from white
contractors who claim minority preferences are keeping them from
getting government contracts."
snip
The petitions being circulated support four proposed
Doug:
Though they do pay allegiance to "equal pay for equal work."
But many men don't. If they did, the above would be practice, not a
feminist slogan.
Also, if women lived totally in accordance to the NE understanding of the
capitalist world, women (as rational economic actors) would refrain
16:36 STOCKS HIGHER AS INVESTORS LOOK AHEAD TO TUESDAY'S FOMC MEETING.
16:33 JIM NABORS RELEASES NEW CD.
regards,
Tom Walker
http://www.vcn.bc.ca/timework/worksite.htm
THE INVISIBLE HAND OF TRUTH
by David C. Colander
In his biting critique of the economics profession Robert Glower suggests
that much of the profession is irrelevant, more concerned with techniques
and game-playing than with ideas. Because it is irrelevant, economists do
not take their own
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
Yes, but the majority of women are, alas, not feminists, bourgeois or
otherwise.
Though they do pay allegiance to "equal pay for equal work."
Isn't the very fact that race still matters (despite many non-white
persons' passionate desire for inclusion + equal
On Monday, June 28, 1999 at 16:34:32 (-0400) Yoshie Furuhashi writes:
...
P.S. As a Benthamite, I only accept guys who like nothing better than doing
my dishes and laundry.
JERK SEEKS CHICK: Stupid, lazy, insensitive, insecure SWM seeks
SWF. I hate the arts, travel, reading and
Thomas Lunde (on another list) wrote:
Marx's suggestion that "the theft of somebody else's labor time" is a
miserable foundation to calculate our wealth - which we should measure by
disposable time not by labor time - is so much truer today than it was 150
years ago.
Sometimes the common sense
Whatever is said about Mao Zedong, his ideas, policies, contributions or
impacts, it is clear that revolutionary theory is anything but
hypothetico-deductivist; theory flows from, in the service of and is tested
by revolutionary practice.
So it is fair game to ask those who equate Mao with
I personally never charged him with being a racist; I did not join that
discussion.
Jim C
-Original Message-
From: Rod Hay [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, June 28, 1999 12:34 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [PEN-L:8434] Re: racism
So Brad is not only a racist, and a
So Brad is not only a racist, and a careerist, he is also out of shape.
Original Message Follows
From: "Craven, Jim" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
How many li do you think you would have lasted on the Long March?
__
Get Your Private, Free
Ranking is human we can not avoid it. Every one likes some thing more that
others. China's constant claim that others should not judge her abuses of
human rights is just a smoke screen to cover up those abuses. To critise the
abuses is not a claim that the Chinese are inherently more cruel or
Wow, you must have a good thesaurus. I think it is a mistake to regard your
adversaries as idiots. They are not. If neoclassical economics was totally
bogus it would soon wither away. It must have some portion of the truth
about how capitalist economies work. When Marx attacked the vulgar
Ricardo wrote:
Blaut's position is a lot narrower than this. His Colonizer's Model
is a blanket criticism of any argument which suggests that
Europe was able to industrialize first because of "cultural
differences". But drawing such differences is essential to any
serious comparative historical
Just to say a few words about David McNally, who was one of my
Ph.D supervisors at York University. He too completed his diss. at
York, where he teaches now, under Ellen Wood's supervision, who also
supervised Comninel. A revised version of his diss. was eventually published
by California
from Scott Shuger's "Today's Papers" SLATE column: The LA [TIMES] lead
reports that the latest Kosovo murder victims include a man and a woman who
had been international monitors there before the war, and a man who died of
gunshot wounds after the British Army medics working on him were driven
How do you separate the "techniques" of neoclassical economics from the
ultra-reductionist, hypothetico-deductivist, Panglossian ("everthing is for
the best in the best of all possible worlds"--capitalism), tautological,
"positivist", contrived-syllogism-ism, contrived parameters/angles of
Charles: Yes, I know it was an insult against Marxists and that Brad
and Max felt they were only spoofing the Marxists. But I think that
Henry is a better judge as to whether they also stumbled into an
insult to Chinese culture or people.
An insult to the Chinese people?
Why, yes, I do
Peter Dorman wrote: Sounds to me like bipolar journalism. Last year it
was a global depression rippling outward from Asia. This year it's
prosperity unto the end of time. So what will the next mood swing bring?
I wonder what would happen if someone actually sat down and constructed the
At 02:02 PM 6/27/99 -0400, Doug Henwood wrote:
Jim Devine quoted :
Is it a freak, the economic equivalent
of a 100-year flood? A growing number
of experts think not.
Not only will today's good times roll
longer than ever before, according to this
view, but the traditional cycle of boom
Rob Schaap wrote:
Ý* Computer technology has revolutionized the way
Ýprivate industry manages the flow of products and
Ýmaterials. Disruptive pile-ups of unused goods and
Ýbottlenecks caused by shortages--historically major
Ýcauses of economic instability--appear to be less of a
Ýthreat these
Charles Brown wrote:
Peter Dorman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 06/25/99 05:08PM
I hesitate to get into this, but I'm on record as having posted that
Brad's satire was hilarious. Which it was. The humor has nothing to do
with Chinese culture; it is a spoof of a certain type of Marxism known
all
Jim Blaut's paper doesn't say that they are. In fact, it explicitly says,
"It is one thing to respect
culture, and to appreciate cultural differences, and quite another thing to
rank human groups on cultural criteria, and to claim then that you have
explained history" (emphasis mine). T
But the 60s was the period where there was real trickling down, not like now.
There was so hope for a brief moment that the age of socialism was dawning and
America, the richest nation was leading the way. There are different faces (and
phases) of capitalism.
But then, corporate
BLS DAILY REPORT, FRIDAY, JUNE 26, 1999:
Today's BLS News Release: "College Enrollment and Work Activity of 1998
High School Graduates" indicates that nearly two-thirds of 1998 high
school graduates were enrolled in colleges or universities in the fall.
The proportion of graduates going
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