G'day Jim,
Nice post, mate!
I have to take that one extra step, I'm afraid - if 'evil' has any serious
application at all, it is as well applied to a system capable of killing and
incarcerating youngsters who seek change in the expressed spirit of 'The
Internationale', as it is to one capable
Jim Devine wrote:
Louis writes: Actually, state ownership is a socialist goal in itself.
I don't want to get into a discussion of "goal in itself" (though maybe
pen-l's Kant experts want to do so). My point is that state ownership is
necessary but not sufficient to the attainment of
Jim Devine called the following a "fascist" development.
There is a string of encouraging news coming out of China just before the
August annual meeting of the CPC in Baidahe. The wind is blowing left
again,
finally.
Those who prejudge China, do it at their own peril.
Henry
China to Set up
"Even so, China hardly represents much of a threat to the U.S. in the very
near future."
I would not be so sure. There is a 50-50 chance there might be a military
confrontation between China and the US in the Taiwan Straits begore the
year ends.
Henry C.K. Liu
SCMP
NATIONAL LABOR
COMMITTEE
IN
SUPPORT OF WORKER AND
HUMAN RIGHTS
275 Seventh Avenue, 15th Floor
New York, NY 10001
Tel: 212-242-3002
Fax: 212-242-3821
Board of
Hi again,
On the matter of telecommunications 'rationalisation', 'efficiency'
et-bloody-c:
We're always hearing that price drops are exclusively a function of
competition (Oz only privatised its Telco and invited in all-level
competition in 1996). We're also told that technological
Note the following setence in the letter:
workers illegally forced to pay an "entrance fee" to secure their job
No benefits are paid, despite the legal obligation of the factory to do so.
The workers receive no benefits, despite the fact that under China's labor
law, the factories are mandated
Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/19/99 07:21PM
I find it hard to believe that any sane leader would trust the U.S. in
negotiating a deal of such magnitude. The U.S. bullies and bullies and
then pretends that it is suddenly filled with a burst morality. It
reminds me of a sign I saw in a
All of this , and, that the Chinese Communist Party is actually still a communist
party, that China is on the road to socialism with a brief stopover in capitalism,
rather than bypassing it all together.
Charles Brown
Doug Henwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/19/99 10:35PM
Michael Perelman wrote:
All of this , and, that the Chinese Communist Party is actually still a
communist party, that China is on the road to socialism with a brief
stopover in capitalism, rather than bypassing it all together.
Charles Brown
I think part of the problem in writing about China is that is one of the
Christian Parenti, author of the excellent book Lockdown America:
Police and Prisons in the Age of Crisis (due in a couple of months
from Verso), told me the other week that the actual number of prison
workers in the U.S. is much less than you'd believe from the
publicity - around 100,000 out
the opinions expressed are those of these author. we're simply providing space to
diverse points of view.
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 05:33:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: "l'o m b r e noire" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: JFK death a "tragic waste" say anarchist dissenters
MIME-Version: 1.0
I apologize to the list for the infected attachment to the the message on
Russian Agriculture [PEN-L:9288]. The disastrous effects of Russian Ag.
Reform)
That is was infected came as quite a surprise to me. I do a McAfee scan
virtually every day, and have never had a virus reported.
As It
You have to periodically update McAfee or Norton Utilities, which are the
two most commonly used virus-checkers. With Norton, this involves making a
connection to the Internet and then selecting "update virus information"
from their menu. Then, it goes out to the Norton website and downloads and
This is a forward with a comment attached. It is another opinion that the U.S.
committed war crimes in the attack on Yugoslavia.
Clinton sounds a little like Marie Antoinette, if the report on what he said is true.
Charles Brown
(
Just another article from the BBC on
Howdy y'all
The ongoing debates re China are useful, although somewhat mired in
personalities rather than policies.
Whilst on holiday in Finland I have been reading Irving Louis Horowitz's
latest book, "Behemoth: Main Currents in the History and Theory of Political
Sociology" (Transaction,
Unfortunately much debate seems to be guided by the logic of "an enemy of my
enemy is my friend", rather than the acknowledgement of the symbiotic
linkages of means and ends which must guide efforts towards a deeper,
radical democracy. The latter would permit critical observations of China,
Cuba,
Henry is correct. I do think that such statements are inappropriate.
Henry C.K. Liu wrote:
I suppose Perelman thinks that statements like this goes far: "I think Henry Liu
has proven himself to be extremely partisan in favor of the Chinese government and
so I don't think I can rely on him
Eugene Coyle wrote
, July 19, 1999 3:24 PM
Like Jim I am an experienced pilot -- with maybe more actual crashes
than
he
has -- and thought about JFK Jr's flight quite a bit over the last few
days. I
have an instrument rating and have myself become a bit disoriented at
times and
Henry C.K. Liu wrote:
This after I repeated pointed out the China opposed capitalist unions, not
socialist unions.
What's the difference?
Doug
Howdy y'all
Whilst on holiday in Finland I have been reading Irving Louis Horowitz's
latest book, "Behemoth: Main Currents in the History and Theory of Political
Sociology" (Transaction, 1999)...
Is it worth reading? Would you recommend it?
Brad DeLong
Before I start, I want to apologize to Henry for insulting him by saying
that I didn't see him as a reliable source of information about Harry Wu.
Never again. Insults usually say more about the insulter than about the
insultee. I defiled myself.
I wrote: My point is that state ownership is
Sorry, I understand now. I thought that you were saying that they posed a
"military threat." Of course, even a successful Granada would have posed a
serious threat if it pointed to a different model.
Doug Henwood wrote:
So was the "Soviet threat" real?
I think this point of view
I know this is breaking my self-imposed rule, but for those who like to
read Krugman, here's his new SLATE column (copyright 1999 Bill Gates):
Don't Laugh at Me, Argentina: Serious lessons from a silly crisis.
By Paul Krugman
Argentina used to be a place of legendary political
The differences are fiundamental.
Ideologically, capitalist unions aim at preserving capitalism against the
emrgence of socialism while socialist unions aim at destroying capitalisnm to
build toward socialism.
Capitalist unions accept competition and stratification as just and necessary
within
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] 07/20/99 01:16PM Crucially, I don't see why
any country should be _a priori_ exempt from the
application of the materialist principles for understanding the world.
BTW, reading the history of many countries around the world, I find that
(as often as not) countries
Fear of flyers
'The implication of some media reporting is that the world would be a safer
place for everybody else if people did not insist on taking to the sky. But
the facts do not bear this view out.'
Private pilot David Thomas wishes light aircraft could spread their wings
this summer,
Jim Devine wrote:
Before I start, I want to apologize to Henry for insulting him by saying
that I didn't see him as a reliable source of information about Harry Wu.
Never again. Insults usually say more about the insulter than about the
insultee. I defiled myself.
I wrote: My point is
Henry, I did not see Jim Devine saying any such thing. He called Wu
a nutcase.
Look. You probably know more than anyone about China on the list...
--
Michael Perelman
?!?!
Maybe I'm hopelessly old-fashioned, but I had always thought of
"ideology" as something different from "knowledge"...
No, you are not old fashion. You are pompous which is different than
intelligent.
Henry C.K. Liu
Brad De Long wrote:
Henry, I did not see Jim Devine saying any such thing. He called Wu
a nutcase.
Look. You probably know more than anyone about China on the list...
--
Michael Perelman
Brad De Long wrote:
Maybe I'm hopelessly old-fashioned, but I had always thought of
"ideology" as something different from "knowledge"
Which just proves you're in the grip of ideology!
Quoting, as I did a few weeks ago, from Slavoj Zizek's intro to his
edited collection, Mapping Ideology:
or the grip metaphor is misleading.
The second "law" of thermodynamics is true regardless of whether we live in
a socialist society or a capitalist society; this is not the same as
succumbing to scientism, just that some statements are true whether we wish
them to be so or not. The weirdness of
On Tue, 20 Jul 1999, Frank Durgin wrote:
As It will be a couple of weeks before I can get any help 'from the
mainland", I wonder if anyone could offer some advice to this computer
novice on how to handle it.
McAfee will clean it for you. It did for me. (That message someone sent
you was
Brad De Long wrote:
Maybe I'm hopelessly old-fashioned, but I had always thought of
"ideology" as something different from "knowledge"
Which just proves you're in the grip of ideology!
Doug
To which of my ideologies are you referring?
(A) My--ideological--belief that the liberal
Doug Dowd wrote an interesting and short book called *The Waste of
Nations*. There is also a fascinating and very original book called The
World's Wasted Wealth by J.W. Smith a non-academic, Montana ranchhand
and arch left populist.
Sam Pawlett
"Henry C.K. Liu" wrote:
Devine attacks China for opposing capitalist unions.
He defends Harry Wu, even after he has been given some basic facts.
He wants to promote Western democracy in socialist China.
He buys into all the propaganda slandering about China without
any effort to
BY LAW, unions in the USA and those who work in
administrative positions in those unions must declare themselves to be
against communism or they GO TO JAIL (Taft-Hartley Act).
NOT SO! The non-communist affidavit of T-H was thrown out by the Supreme
Court many years ago. I believe the case
Henry C.K. Liu wrote:
The differences are fiundamental.
Ideologically, capitalist unions aim at preserving capitalism against the
emrgence of socialism while socialist unions aim at destroying capitalisnm to
build toward socialism.
Unions in capitalism usually aim at protecting the
Tension over the Taiwan Strait has today escalated higher than the temperature
in August. Jiang Zemin was reported today as having made a declaration of "3
regardless".
1) Regardless of limits, the PLA will reunited China by force to prevent Taiwan
independence, confronting US forces if
Everybody seems so uptight today...workers of the world, relax. It's
freakin' hot..Grab a beer. BTW here's some more bad news.
Ian
Tuesday July 20, 1:00 pm Eastern Time
FOCUS-New Zealand's Moore set to get top WTO job
(recasts throughout)
By Robert Evans
GENEVA, July 20 (Reuters) - Former
Doug:
I thank you for the message.
As regards how to cure it, a message I got yesterday ( copied below)
indicates that
there are ways of cleaning it.
I'm an absolute novice here, but I thought possibly the message might be
of interest
Frank
Virus Incident Information
I agree with Doug's point below. The Soviet Union and the other countries mentioned
were not MILITARY threats. The mindbenders in the capitalist world developed the big
lie of the Communist military threat, as a cover for attacking socialist countries
which were a political alternative and
Michael Perelman wrote:
Agreed. We also hear of the North Korean threat. Remember Reagan's line
about the Sandinistas being close to southern Texas?
I do not think that those people believe in the reality of such threats.
Well, maybe Reagan did.
So was the "Soviet threat" real?
I think this
Frank Durgin wrote:
That is was infected came as quite a surprise to me. I do a McAfee scan
virtually every day, and have never had a virus reported.
As It will be a couple of weeks before I can get any help 'from the
mainland", I wonder if anyone could offer some advice to this computer
Doug Henwood wrote:
I bet we're going to hear a
lot more about the Chinese threat.
Agreed. We also hear of the North Korean threat. Remember Reagan's line
about the Sandinistas being close to southern Texas?
I do not think that those people believe in the reality of such threats.
Well,
This issue has some wrinkles. I would
bet that prisoners would prefer some types
of work to doing nothing. Obviously not
working in chain-gangs or picking tomatoes,
but booking airline tickets or doing light
manufacturing -- even at pitiful or zero
wages -- might be preferable to alternatives.
I suppose Perelman thinks that statements like this goes far: "I think Henry Liu
has proven himself to be extremely partisan in favor of the Chinese government and
so I don't think I can rely on him for such assertions being true."
Devine wrote: Concerning issues of fact, I started and ended
Hi Rob,
I'm not sure who is promoting the idea that natural monopoly is gone in
telecom/telematics, but I would like to see something a bit more analytical
and quantitative on that score; I recall some journalists making that claim.
It still seems pretty solid in the teaching literature. Of
July 1, 1999
President Jiang Zemin's Speech on the 78th anniversary of the founding of
the CPC
¡¡As general secretary of the CPC Central Committee, Jiang made his plea
when addressing a forum on June 28 marking the 78th anniversary of the
founding of Party.
Jiang Urges Party to Emphasize Its
Those were not "optimistic" (in defiant of fact) words. I forwarded pro-Western HK
newspaper reports about leftist opposition to economic reform, WTO and SOE
privatization. These are high visible and well noticed facts that even the casual
observer cannot miss.
Michael Perelman wrote:
What
Devine attacks China for opposing capitalist unions.
He defends Harry Wu, even after he has been given some basic facts.
He wants to promote Western democracy in socialist China.
He buys into all the propaganda slandering about China without any effort to
verify any facts.
I have already
See my web site for a review of Gray (and James Galbraith)
John M. Legge
http://www.users.bigpond.com/msn/jlegge/
- Original Message -
From: Craven, Jim [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 20 July 1999 6:51
Subject: [PEN-L:9311] A Polemic against neo-liberal globalism
For an intresting
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