Many on this list would be sympathetic to regimes resisting neo-liberal
interference by the US, Britain, and other western imperialist governments.
Charles makes a good point that historically there will be many imperfect
forms of socialism, and need to be.
The positive news this week that
One of the key pointers on the new Kostunica regime will be whether
Filopovic is released. Filipovic was imprisoned for revealing evidence of
Yugoslav military atrocities in Kosovo. An appeal has already been made.
The report below from IWPR is full of international connections, including
no
At 6:05 AM +0800 7/10/00, Nestor Miguel Gorojovsky wrote:
In Belgrade we have had a rehearsal of the "out wih Ferdinand Marcos"
play, where a good fraction of the petty bourgeoisie, with the
company of diverse fractions of lower classes, seems to have tilted
the balance in the Yugo armed forces
Dennis:
Whence this fetishism of Eastern European state-party father-figures? Per
capita GDP in Poland, Slovenia and the Czech Republic is higher now than
in 1989, and many of these economies are growing pretty fast.
Inequality is higher now as well. Socialists are not interested in economic
Ken wrote:
The majority may not like Milosevic but they have given his party more than
a majority in recent elections. That is why you are seeing a
Western-generated uprising. Interesting that some leftists cheer the
burning of parliament buildings when the supposed aim is to impose
democracy.
Paul wrote:
I was listening to "As it Happens", the CBC news backgrounder,
this evening on the events in Yugoslavia. Rather interesting.
Apparently Milosevic met with the Army Chiefs and Kostinica,
congratulated Kostinica on his electoral victory and announced he
was going to retire temporarily
Now, a quick question. Several on this list who are otherwise
perceptive and critical thinkers have accepted, and indeed
broadcast, the view that Milosevic is an agent of the devil, etc.
What evidence does anyone on this list have that he is evil, anti-
democratic, satanic etc. other than
G'day Brad,
Two responses come to mind. Firstly, how would you define 'nationalist
thug' such that the utterances and actions of US presidents don't qualify
them as just that, and, secondly, are all nationalist words and actions much
of a muchness? As Joanna Sheldon wrote the other day,
Jim D. wrote:
I wrote:
It's true that the ascension of neoliberalism in (and "Western"
dominance of) Serbia will rule out the realization of the
potential of state ownership.
Yoshie replies:
This is the main point we should focus on, since there has been no
existing socialist alternative to
En relación a [PEN-L:2763] Re: Re: Milosevic out?,
el 7 Oct 00, a las 11:16, [EMAIL PROTECTED] dijo:
At 6:05 AM +0800 7/10/00, Nestor Miguel Gorojovsky wrote:
In Belgrade we have had a rehearsal of the "out wih Ferdinand Marcos"
play, where a good fraction of the petty bourgeoisie, with
En relación a [PEN-L:2764] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Economic revolut,
el 7 Oct 00, a las 9:01, Louis Proyect dijo:
Dennis:
Whence this fetishism of Eastern European state-party father-figures?
Per capita GDP in Poland, Slovenia and the Czech Republic is higher
now than in 1989, and many of these
Building Protests in Support of The Palestinians-
This forward is to the Action Alert page for the AAADC,, which is
beginning to list the demonstrations being built around the United
States. In addition, one should feel free to contact the mosques
in your community, to find out if other
Dennis:
Whence this fetishism of Eastern European state-party father-figures? Per
capita GDP in Poland, Slovenia and the Czech Republic is higher now than
in 1989, and many of these economies are growing pretty fast.
Inequality is higher now as well. Socialists are not interested in economic
En relación a [PEN-L:2768] Of Nationalist Thugs (and those who ,
el 8 Oct 00, a las 1:59, Rob Schaap dijo:
G'day Brad,
[overwhelming mass of evidence snipped]
Reckon the Balkans'd be a much better place if 'we' had kept our
filthy mits off the place ...
Just the Balkans?
Néstor Miguel
I agree completely that this will be the crucial struggle in the days
ahead. The left won a solid majority in both assemblies. That is definitely
the reason Kostunica refused to participate in the Oct. 8 runoff, even
though he was sure to win. A Kostunica win in the second round would leave
in
At 01:59 AM 10/08/2000 +1000, you wrote:
Then, in March of 1992, 'we' sought to impose the Lisbon accord (which
'we' would do again at Dayton), explicitly and deliberately perpetrating a
three-way ethnic division within a sovereign state, effectively enshrining
nationalist leaders (who owed
Yoshie wrote:
Yes, and I'm saying that the opposition to neoliberal humanitarian
imperialism is the key to the future of the Left at the core and the periphery.
then we agree. I've been saying for a while that socialism is likely to
arise as a result of the struggle against the emergent
Any news of protests elsewhere?
Yoshie
NY Times, Oct. 7, 2000
Times Square Marchers Protest Killing of Palestinians
By AMY WALDMAN
Several thousand demonstrators gathered south of Times Square during the
evening rush yesterday to protest the killing of dozens of Palestinians by
Israeli
In response to the posting below by the editor of left.ru, we would say
this:
as a whole (and there are exceptions), the Western Left does not completely
reject the mentality, the false consciousness created by its own ruling
class, and this often cripples the Left when it comes to offering
- Original Message -
From: neil [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Penners [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Neil C. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 12:42 AM
Subject: [PEN-L:2760] Milosevic out??
. If the masses see through the capitalists turned market stalinists (sic)
quite well etc. how
Press Release
Belgrade, September 26, 2000
"A free and fair election", international observers say.
The 210 international observers from 54 countries who have come to
Yugoslavia to monitor the elections have among them current and former
parliamentarians, representatives from political
Perhaps Bill Rosenberg might comment upon this.
Cheers, Ken Hanly
THE EVENING POST 2
AUGUST 2000
Labour to abolish market-led health model
Health Minister Annette King today unveiled the Government's health
reform legislation, promising to restore public confidence in the health
system
I thought that Sachs was one of them! What happened?
CHeers, Ken Hanly
The Financial Times 26 September 2000
The charade of debt sustainability
The World Bank and IMF fail the world's poorest people by siding
with western governments.
By Jeffrey Sachs
Many of the protesters in
In a message dated 10/6/00 9:06:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
It seems to me unfortunate when North American leftists become
spokespersons for CIA propaganda.
And I think it unfotrtunate when any leftist becomes an apologist for
nationalistic chauvinism and
In a message dated 10/7/00 9:07:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Inequality is higher now as well. Socialists are not interested in economic
growth for the same of economic growth. We are interested in social justice.
Not all socialists:
"What is a 'fair
In a message dated 10/7/00 9:12:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
It's like Yeltsin's shelling of the Duma.
I see, The present leaderships victory in a democratic election, despite
Slobo's virtually total control of the media and ability to stuff ballot
boxesa t will,
I had written:
The protestors -- who seemed to have come from all major classes,
unlike previous anti-Milosevic waves, which were primarily based
in the urban middle classes -- were fighting the Yugoslav
government, led by a man who had committed the ultimate sin among
Ken H--
When you get into election circuses, east and west in this epoch, they are
all
tightly run ruling class affairs. Their legal parties only real
differences in practice
are tactical, not strategic, but yes, true, regional class antagonisms
crop up as well..
But if any political
Justin wrote:
In a message dated 10/7/00 9:07:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Inequality is higher now as well. Socialists are not interested in economic
growth for the same of economic growth. We are interested in social
justice.
Not all socialists:
"What is a 'fair
At 20:19 06/10/00 -0700, you wrote:
Now, a quick question. Several on this list who are otherwise
perceptive and critical thinkers have accepted, and indeed
broadcast, the view that Milosevic is an agent of the devil, etc. What
evidence does anyone on this list have that he is evil, anti-
In a message dated 10/7/00 9:12:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
It's like Yeltsin's shelling of the Duma.
I see, The present leaderships victory in a democratic election, despite
Slobo's virtually total control of the media and ability to stuff ballot
boxesa t will, and
Yugoslavia Must Make Good on Reforms, U.S. Says
By ROBIN WRIGHT, Times Staff Writer
WASHINGTON--Despite almost giddy diplomatic euphoria over Slobodan
Milosevic's political demise, the United States cautioned Friday that
Yugoslavia still must act on several contentious issues before it
will
This just in, from the Sunday edition of The Independent:
(The new government of Yugoslavia was furious yesterday after Washington
suggested that sanctions would not be lifted unless Slobodan Milosevic was
handed over to the War Crimes Tribunal in The Hague.
Vladeta Jankovic, the number two to
Hi Pen-l,
Starting this Nov. 12, I'm going to teach a six-week course entitled "Marx,
Class and Race" at the Marxist School of Sacramento.
For the first two-hour session, I'd like to have folks read and discuss a
brief article or essay by Marx (and Engels) on British racism and capitalist
En relación a [PEN-L:2787] Re: Re: Re: Re: Milosevic out?,
el 7 Oct 00, a las 10:49, Jim Devine dijo:
Néstor ripostes:
The same could be said of the mob who gathered at the Murillo Square
of La Paz, in Bolivia, in 1943, and hang President Gualberto
Villaroel, whose only crime had been
I am reading Eric Wolf's EUROPE AND THE PEOPLE WITHOUT HISTORY as part
of a team-taught course in political economy. It's my first time with
the book; parts of it I like, parts I don'tand then I hit chapter
10, which summarizes his take on Marxian economics. It seems to me that
he made a
On Fri, 6 Oct 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
president of the new Republic. To the best of my knowledge, there
has been no EU money for the environment. etc.
Probably because Slovenia is a fairly wealthy country, and can finance
these things themselves. The EIB, though, is making money
Peter wrote:
1. Doesn't Wolf confuse the long-run, secular "tendency for the rate of
profit to fall" with the intermediate-term, cyclical mechanism Marx
describes in Chapter 25 of Vol. 1 of Capital? For Wolf, the rising
organic composition of capital leads to a declining rate of profit, then
Ken Hanly wrote:
Perhaps Bill Rosenberg might comment upon this.
Cheers, Ken Hanly
Aint got a lot I can say other than, potentially, yes this will take us away
from the "market-led health model". It sets up elected health boards similar to
ones we had a decade ago, in place of the
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