Re: Islam's Black Slaves

2001-05-18 Thread ALI KADRI
There are plenty of errors in this and it is grossly misleading. Islamic history cannot be characterised with a single brush stroke as homogenous. The status of slavery changed with the various stages of Islamic history. In the early stages, many of the slaves were Arabs. Under this regime as

Re: Islam's Black Slaves

2001-05-18 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
Ali wrote: There are plenty of errors in this and it is grossly misleading. Islamic history cannot be characterised with a single brush stroke as homogenous. The status of slavery changed with the various stages of Islamic history. In the early stages, many of the slaves were Arabs. Under this

Re: Reply to Ellen Meiksins Wood, part 1

2001-05-18 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
Lou replies to Ellen Wood: Instead, capitalism is conceived as a more or less natural outcome of age-old and virtually universal human practices, the activities of exchange, which have taken place not only in towns since time immemorial but also in agricultural societies. In some versions of

Re: Reply to Ellen Meiksins Wood, part 1

2001-05-18 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
At 05:43 PM 5/17/01 -0400, you wrote: You can find out her views on the MR website in the article The Agrarian Origins of Capitalism. She states that capitalism existed without workers. I really don't care about her position _per se_ (or Bob Brenner's position _per se_) as much as what helps us

Re: Re: Reply to Ellen Meiksins Wood, part 1

2001-05-18 Thread Louis Proyect
Yoshie: Well, capitalism must have begun sometime somewhere, or else it would have to be thought of as having existed everywhere throughout human history -- a conception of history to which you would no doubt object (the point you made in your objection to Jim Devine's use of the term

Re: Reply to Ellen Meiksins Wood, part 1

2001-05-18 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
Brenner has a specific theory of capitalism that Anderson doesn't address in the quote above. As I understand Brenner, he's would agree with Marx that capitalism arose when different elements systematically combined in England at the end of the 17th century. But not being a postmodernist, he

Fwd: Value Theory Symposium

2001-05-18 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
From: Drewk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: POST-KEYNESIAN THOUGHT [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Value Theory Symposium Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 08:18:56

RE: Fwd: Value Theory Symposium

2001-05-18 Thread Max Sawicky
INTERNATIONAL WORKING GROUP ON VALUE THEORY 2d SUMMER SYMPOSIUM AT GREENWICH 9-10 JULY, 2001 Not to be missed will be the session on litigation as productive labor. mbs

Re: Re: Islam's Black Slaves

2001-05-18 Thread ALI KADRI
Indeed, thanks for bringing this back. That is what I meant. Slaves were not involved in a commodity producing labour process like that of the plantation style, especially one leading to or involving surplus extraction. This, of course, changed as a result of Portuguese, Spanish and English

Re: Fernand Braudel's Daily Bread

2001-05-18 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
One major difference between wheat and rice is that the later tends to grow in a system of polyculture. Along with the rice, fish or ducks and sometimes even pigs are grown. Comparing grain yields can be misleading. That is a major difference as I take that term to mean multicropping.

Re: Fwd: Value Theory Symposium

2001-05-18 Thread Yoshie Furuhashi
INTERNATIONAL WORKING GROUP ON VALUE THEORY 2d SUMMER SYMPOSIUM AT GREENWICH 9-10 JULY, 2001 Not to be missed will be the session on litigation as productive labor. mbs Hey, the quip's more appropriate for LBO-talk with its many opinionated lawyers Yoshie

Re: Re: Fwd: Value Theory Symposium

2001-05-18 Thread Rob Schaap
Hey, the quip's more appropriate for LBO-talk with its many opinionated lawyers Yeah, and won't I be taking refuge here until that load of much ado about nothing is over ... Reminds of something I think I saw in a movie once. Some bloke in a pub loudly proclaims all lawyers are assholes,

IMF

2001-05-18 Thread Keaney Michael
Brad replies to Michael P.: Re: As if he were a school marm correcting wayward children Michael. Look what I'm dealing with here: ... repeated smart-ass intrusions... deigns... self-delusion ...confirmation of prejudice... disciplinary culture of condescension... brilliant economist...

Re: Re: Reply to Ellen Meiksins Wood...Relative starts

2001-05-18 Thread Nemonemini
It might be interesting to sketch briefly the 'eonic effect' solution to this intractable problem of defining the beginning of capitalism. The problem disappears. If we perceive discontinuity and the need for a model to mirror this, then a new property is available, relative onset, or relative

BLS Daily Report

2001-05-18 Thread Richardson_D
BLS DAILY REPORT, THURSDAY, MAY 17, 2001: RELEASED TODAY: In the first quarter of 2001, there were 1,664 mass layoff actions by employers that resulted in the separation of 305,227 workers from their jobs for more than 30 days, according to preliminary figures released by the Bureau of

Re: RE: Fwd: Value Theory Symposium

2001-05-18 Thread Ian Murray
- Original Message - From: Max Sawicky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 18, 2001 5:57 AM Subject: [PEN-L:11760] RE: Fwd: Value Theory Symposium INTERNATIONAL WORKING GROUP ON VALUE THEORY 2d SUMMER SYMPOSIUM AT GREENWICH 9-10 JULY, 2001 Not to be

Re: Re: Re: Fwd: Value Theory Symposium

2001-05-18 Thread Justin Schwartz
I'm always trolling for good lawyer jokes. My sister, a TV producer, made some snipe at lawyers the other day. I told her that she was in what is perhaps the only technically lawful profession that the public holds in lower regard than mine. --jks From: Rob Schaap [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Fwd: Value Theory Symposium

2001-05-18 Thread Doug Henwood
Justin Schwartz wrote: I'm always trolling for good lawyer jokes. My sister, a TV producer, made some snipe at lawyers the other day. I told her that she was in what is perhaps the only technically lawful profession that the public holds in lower regard than mine. 'fraid not, Justin. You're

Re: Re: Re: Lindsey speaks

2001-05-18 Thread Jim Devine
Micael wrote: The Journal of Economic Perspectives once had a number of widely differing estimates of the amount of dollars abroad. If the dollar were to suddenly threaten to loose value, say to the Euro, and people wanted to dump them, wouldn't that create serious problems in the US? Brad

Re: IMF

2001-05-18 Thread Brad DeLong
Brad replies to Michael P.: Re: As if he were a school marm correcting wayward children Michael. Look what I'm dealing with here: ... repeated smart-ass intrusions... deigns... self-delusion ...confirmation of prejudice... disciplinary culture of condescension... brilliant economist...

Re: Re: IMF

2001-05-18 Thread Michael Perelman
I have to leave in a moment, so I don't have time to respond in detail. You are absolutely wrong, Brad. Maybe saying that Michael K. has no social skills may seem to be a tit-for-tat strategy, but it only leads to escalating flame wars. Why do you need to do that? It is absolutely

Re: Re: Re: Islam's Black Slaves

2001-05-18 Thread Brad DeLong
Indeed, thanks for bringing this back. That is what I meant. Slaves were not involved in a commodity producing labour process like that of the plantation style, especially one leading to or involving surplus extraction. ??? I see the lack of plantation-style labor to produce staples for a

Re: Re: IMF

2001-05-18 Thread Jim Devine
Brad wrote: For the record: Bullshit. Total bullshit. language! Don Roper might kick us off the archive at csf. and: People like Michael Keaney--people with no social skills whatsoever, who never learned how to behave in any company, polite or not--ruined USENET as a forum. In my view,

globalization news

2001-05-18 Thread Jim Devine
from SLATE's on-line news summary: Several papers report that while visiting Poland, Bill Clinton was hit on the sleeve with an egg tossed by an anti-globalization protestor, and that he more or less laughed off the incident. But the WP's T.R. Reid reports that during a campaign appearance in

intellectual property question

2001-05-18 Thread Michael Perelman
When did the term, intellectual property, first appear? -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University [EMAIL PROTECTED] Chico, CA 95929 530-898-5321 fax 530-898-5901

RE: intellectual property question

2001-05-18 Thread David Shemano
Doing a quick Lexis search of Federal cases: These principles, however, are not inconsistent with another one, equally well settled, which is, that a liberal construction is to be given to a patent, and inventors sustained, if practicable, without a departure from sound principles. Only thus

Re: intellectual property question

2001-05-18 Thread ravi narayan
Michael Perelman wrote: When did the term, intellectual property, first appear? as soon as the first conservative figured out that it was necessary not just to steal the people's land and water but also their thoughts? ;-) would the invention of the term coincide with the invention of the

Re: intellectual property question

2001-05-18 Thread Nathan Newman
- Original Message - From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] When did the term, intellectual property, first appear? Doing a quick scan through Supreme Court decisions, a pretty isolated example is a mention in the 1873 case, Mitchell v. Tilghman, 86 U.S. 287, where the opinion quotes

Schleifer

2001-05-18 Thread Brown, Martin (NCI)
I got a pdf file of the Who Owns the Media paper. If anyone wants a copy, let me know.

Re: Re: Re: IMF

2001-05-18 Thread Doug Henwood
Apropos Brad's suggestion that legislative decorum might be a model for PEN-L, this is from the Paul Keating Insults Page http://www.webcity.com.au/keating/. Many of these gems were uttered on the floor of the Australian parliament. Doug On former Labor Prime Minister, Bob Hawke: Now

BLS Daily Report

2001-05-18 Thread Richardson_D
BLS DAILY REPORT, FRIDAY, MAY 18, 2001: RELEASED TODAY: Regional and state unemployment rates were generally stable in April. All four regions reported little change from March, and 41 states recorded shifts of 0.3 percentage point or less, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reports. The

Re: Re: Re: IMF

2001-05-18 Thread Carrol Cox
Jim Devine wrote: )[re congress] Further, the scope of the debate is severely limited, so that fundamental issues are hardly ever addressed (while people are lambasted for using class struggle rhetoric if they make obvious points about the regressivity of Bush's tax cuts). So the speech

CA electricity rip-off

2001-05-18 Thread Jim Devine
Gene Coyle should have been there instead, but it was I who attended. For unknown reasons (I'll ask), I was invited to a meeting today with a bunch of business people and folks who work for municipal-owned power companies to hear talks on what's happening on the California electricity rip-off

Re: Informational simultaneity/Fair Disclosure paradox

2001-05-18 Thread Andrew Hagen
Article Translation: open disclosure cuts deeply into the pockets of the big Wall Street firms; it really chaps their hides, and they would like to go back to the old system of managed disclosure. The only relevant source for the article appears to be the Securities Industry Association. It

Re: Lindsey speaks - strong dollar

2001-05-18 Thread Chris Burford
At 18/05/01 08:27 -0700, Jim Devine wrote: Right. The US is _lucky_, since its currency is used as the world money (as befits its economic, financial, political, and military might). However, a rapid fall in the dollar might encourage efforts to replace the dollar as the world currency (with

eonic effect

2001-05-18 Thread Andrew Hagen
John Landon, I respect your intellectual courage in going public with your extravagantly alternative thesis. These dark times require new light for our lamp. I am not persuaded by your thesis, however. First, I don't understand why you don't like Darwin. It's true that his science wasn't as

Re: RE: CA electricity rip-off

2001-05-18 Thread Ian Murray
DS wrote: You say that demand is inelastic and the power companies can charge whatever they want. Well, how can you say that, as an empirical matter, when retail prices haven't risen? Epistemologically, how can you know? Aren't you saying that conservation is impossible? How about a

Re: RE: CA electricity rip-off

2001-05-18 Thread Joel Blau
A biographical note: William Tucker is the guy who used to argue that rent control caused homelessness. Joel Blau David Shemano wrote: Jim Devine wrote: One point the fellow made, BTW, was that the situation was made worse by the California commitment to avoid

Re: eonic effect

2001-05-18 Thread Nemonemini
Thank you for your comments. Generally, even answering me is bad form, and takes courage, due to my "extravagantly alternative thesis'. It is remarkable, but not extravagant, and not so alternative as it might seem. Alternative to what? The current scene of historical theory is incoherent. So

Re: Fw: How Paul O'Neill turned back the Eurocrats

2001-05-18 Thread Andrew Hagen
Another interesting conservative lie. The article states that They want to impose economic sanctions on nations with low taxation rates, implying this would include the US. In response, the United States Treasury Secretary raises the issue of national sovereignty. The article sidesteps the fact

Re: Re: eonic effect 2

2001-05-18 Thread Nemonemini
One more 'chiller' to make Darwin fans weak kneed. Before looking at the eonic effect you feel sure there is no going back, burn your bridges behind you. The following quotation is from my webpage and is a critique by John Campbell of population genetics models that are often presented as a

Re: Re: Re: eonic effect 3

2001-05-18 Thread Nemonemini
Here's a quick effort to complete the argument, but it is already impossible to quite make the point in one post. The term 'eonic' for some is a problem, perhaps, it can be dropped. Just think of 'intermittent', or 'on-off'. Also, we have a problem. Some mysteries are of the unknown, new

Re: Re: Re: Re: eonic effect 4 Concluded Checkmate

2001-05-18 Thread Nemonemini
Checkmate for Darwinism applied to history. I defy any team of scientists, philosophers, Darwinists or anyone else to sit down and try and refute this argument taken in its full scope. They won't because they can't, and prefer, since they control the paradigm to play ostrich, and simply