--part1_f4e96039.2453e25f_boundary
Louis,
With eloquence and substance, presented and argued.
By the way, anybody feel that the FBI Building, a building of the JUSTICE
department, being named after J. Edgar (aka "Mary") Hoover is on the one hand
quite appropriate, while on the other hand, in terms of the real meaning of
Justice, analogous to naming a shelter for battered women after Ted Bundy?
The rank, ugly, destructive, evil and hypocritical tentacles of imperialism,
colonialism, fascism, bourgeois "democracy" and their clients and puppets are
producing massive death and misery and far beyond Kosovo. Being "radical"
from the Latin "radix" or root meands get to the "root of it" in
understanding fundamental causes and getting rid {uprooting"] of them.
Jim Craven
In a message dated 4/21/99 12:06:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
<< Subj: [PEN-L:5711] Trotskyists and WWII
Date: 4/21/99 12:06:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Louis Proyect)
Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Max:
>The real throwback here is not Tomasky/Shachtman, but Louis et al. to the
>Trots who opposed U.S. entry into WWII, or to the CP-USA when it condemned
>all trade unions but the ones it organized itself.
I probably should have let this ignorant garbage go unanswered, but just to
clarify the real position of Trotskyism on WWII for those interested in the
truth. For the Trotskyists, WWII was a complex phenomenon that
incorporated 4 wars in one:
1. An interimperialist war between plunderers in which the United States
and England were just as reactionary as Germany and Japan.
2. A just war of self-defense by the Soviet Union against Hitlerism.
3. A just war of oppressed nationalities against their colonial overlords
whether allied or axis, including Japan, England and France.
4. A just war by working-people and peasants in Nazi-occupied Europe. The
Resistance in France was the best example of such a just war.
The Trotskyists were imprisoned under the Smith Act not for "opposing"
WWII, but for exposing the imperialist motives of the ruling-class as
indicated in point one above. Since the ruling class prefers to keep its
vampire profit lust a secret, they will deny freedom of speech to leftists
who want to point this truth out. They imprisoned the SWP leaders for the
same reason they went after Daniel Ellsberg during Vietnam. It is
considered deeply subversive to break through the propaganda lies of
capitalist governments when they go to war. Ironically, during WWII CPUSA
leaders took the same stance as Max does today. They identified the
interests of the workers with the war aims of the superrich. US soldiers
died by the tens of thousands in the Pacific theater to make the region
safe for rubber, oil, banking, construction, railroad and shipping
companies. We resented another vulture--Japan--picking at the flesh of
China, the Philippines, and other of our post-1898 conquests.
Furthermore, the SWP advocated a revolutionary armed struggle against
Hitler modeled on the Spanish Civil War popular militias. They argued that
armies under ruling-class leadership with their officer corps would not be
as effective as those under working-class control. While they were doomed
to be in a small minority due to the ideological lock the CP had on left
opinion back then, their case was actually quite powerful. If you study the
Spanish Civil War, you will learn that the POUM militias were far more
effective than the CP-led regular army which was defending the interests of
the Spanish landlords while fighting against Franco. When the Popular Front
troops repressed strikers and peasants occupying the land on rural estates,
they ensured Franco's victory. All this is depicted in Ken Loach's "Land
and Freedom".
Louis Proyect
(http://www.panix.com/~lnp3/marxism.html)
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Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 15:00:06 -0400
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From: Louis Proyect <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [PEN-L:5711] Trotskyists and WWII
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Max:
>The real throwback here is not Tomasky/Shachtman, but Louis et al. to the
>Trots who opposed U.S. entry into WWII, or to the CP-USA when it condemned
>all trade unions but the ones it organized itself.
I probably should have let this ignorant garbage go unanswered, but just to
clarify the real position of Trotskyism on WWII for those interested in the
truth. For the Trotskyists, WWII was a complex phenomenon that
incorporated 4 wars in one:
1. An interimperialist war between plunderers in which the United States
and England were just as reactionary as Germany and Japan.
2. A just war of self-defense by the Soviet Union against Hitlerism.
3. A just war of oppressed nationalities against their colonial overlords
whether allied or axis, including Japan, England and France.
4. A just war by working-people and peasants in Nazi-occupied Europe. The
Resistance in France was the best example of such a just war.
The Trotskyists were imprisoned under the Smith Act not for "opposing"
WWII, but for exposing the imperialist motives of the ruling-class as
indicated in point one above. Since the ruling class prefers to keep its
vampire profit lust a secret, they will deny freedom of speech to leftists
who want to point this truth out. They imprisoned the SWP leaders for the
same reason they went after Daniel Ellsberg during Vietnam. It is
considered deeply subversive to break through the propaganda lies of
capitalist governments when they go to war. Ironically, during WWII CPUSA
leaders took the same stance as Max does today. They identified the
interests of the workers with the war aims of the superrich. US soldiers
died by the tens of thousands in the Pacific theater to make the region
safe for rubber, oil, banking, construction, railroad and shipping
companies. We resented another vulture--Japan--picking at the flesh of
China, the Philippines, and other of our post-1898 conquests.
Furthermore, the SWP advocated a revolutionary armed struggle against
Hitler modeled on the Spanish Civil War popular militias. They argued that
armies under ruling-class leadership with their officer corps would not be
as effective as those under working-class control. While they were doomed
to be in a small minority due to the ideological lock the CP had on left
opinion back then, their case was actually quite powerful. If you study the
Spanish Civil War, you will learn that the POUM militias were far more
effective than the CP-led regular army which was defending the interests of
the Spanish landlords while fighting against Franco. When the Popular Front
troops repressed strikers and peasants occupying the land on rural estates,
they ensured Franco's victory. All this is depicted in Ken Loach's "Land
and Freedom".
Louis Proyect
(http://www.panix.com/~lnp3/marxism.html)
--part1_f4e96039.2453e25f_boundary--
