LOUIS P: Part of the problem is terminology. Paul Phillips uses the word interchangeably with "unrealistic". You use it as a synonym for irrelevant. I am much more prosaic. I use the word in the sense that Engels and Marx used it. I guess I have spent too much time working with computers and have a limited imagination. KARL: It would seem to me that the above comments are merely a ruse to avoid concerning yourself on this list with the serious issue of the status of marxism today. I do not use the term "utopian" or "utopianism" as merely another word for irrelevant. As for most of the rest of your message.................. Yours etc., Karl