Max writes: >>What remains difficult to demonstrate, it seems to me, as opposed to theorizing about, is whether the effective popular movement must be overtly revolutionary, or merely strong enough to be a political threat just by playing according to the rules of the bourgeois political system. Strong enough, in other words, to sway and win elections, assume office, write laws, appoint judges, and make changes (not excluding changes in property rights).<< To prevent him from doing fruitless work over the weekend to respond to my response to his response (whew!) to my essay, I should mention that I was NOT talking about "overtly revolutionary" movements. That's another dimension of the political process. To call for an overtly revolutionary movement at this point in US history is fun, but hardly more than adding an extra degree (Fahrenheit) to the air's temperature. What I was talking about was a GRASS-ROOTS movement, as with the "environmental justice" movement that is fighting the dumping of pollutants in "minority" communities. There are many other examples, with which I will not bore one and all. The idea (if we ignore the class dimension) is very much like that of the late Saul Alinsky. We need constant pressure from such movements, preferably from movements that see themselves as being in the political pressure business for the long haul rather than accepting short-term compromises that turn out to be worthless in the longer run. Even better, such movements have to get together, form federations and coalitions, so as to link the various issues being considered. It's these kinds of movements that give the politicians and organizational functionaries the BACKBONE to do progressive stuff once and awhile, to counteract the massively corrupting influence of campaign contributions, etc. It's only with such movements pressuring the professional politicians (and keeping them honest) that we see elections won by reasonable people, reasonably progressive laws written, progressive judges appointed, etc. (A minor example: I attribute Rep. Ron Dellums' relative progressiveness NOT to his personality but to the pressure he gets from his district, i.e., Oakland and Berkeley.) in pen-l solidarity, Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Econ. Dept., Loyola Marymount Univ. 7900 Loyola Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90045-8410 USA 310/338-2948 (daytime, during workweek); FAX: 310/338-1950 "Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti." (Go your own way and let people talk.) -- K. Marx, paraphrasing Dante A.