Howdy Secular Economists,
Yoshie's reply provoked a lot of thought in me over the last 24 hours.
I will take off on this comment,
Yoshie,
The Panopticon has metaphoric as well as literal aspects. The
literal aspect includes Echelon; surveillance cameras everywhere
(from malls to schools to s
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
>
> >
> >Frankly, I find concerns with mass psychology somewhat boring. I am much
> >more interested in what's going on in the base, such as the IMF's attitude
> >toward Yugoslavia in 1996. But what do I know. I am a stodgy old Marxist
> >with an unhealthy obsession with
ject: [PEN-L:4939] Re: Re: Moral Panics / Law & Order (was Re: Samir Amin
vs. Green Consumerism)
> >Better yet, try not to succumb to a moral panic yourself.
> >
> >Yoshie
>
> I have no idea why you would try to salvage the reputation of a rightwing
> cult, but there
Hi Economists,
A brief tangential reply to Yoshie's comments. I have been reading "The
Sociology of Philosophies", by Randall Collins. Collins makes the point
that philosophers do not exist in a vacuum. We tend to see them as great
individual thinkers, but Collins demonstrates how that sort
At 12:02 PM 11/25/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>The Panopticon has metaphoric as well as literal aspects. The literal
>aspect includes Echelon; surveillance cameras everywhere (from malls to
>schools to street corners); random drug testing; satellite photography;
>etc. The metaphoric aspect refers
Hello destitute Economists,
Yoshie quotes from her original posting in regard to the subject of
moral panic. I will hop around in the interior of her re-posting taking on
metaphor here and assertion there,
Yoshie,
"Freedom, Equality, Property, & Bentham" demand the Panopticon. It
is no coin
On Thu, 23 Nov 2000, Louis Proyect wrote:
> >Good luck selling your agenda to the masses. At least religion
> >promises eternal life under the loving care of God. I guess that's
> >why you want to restore "the sacral."
> >
> >Doug
>
> Well, Doug, I am challenging existing class relations. Thi
For the impoverished economist,
Yoshie writes metaphorically to Lou,
Yoshie,
Better yet, try not to succumb to a moral panic yourself.
Doyle
The description of how Lou reacts depends upon a realistic understanding of
the psychological mechanisms described. Since the sentence is so simple and
co
>Better yet, try not to succumb to a moral panic yourself.
>
>Yoshie
I have no idea why you would try to salvage the reputation of a rightwing
cult, but there are lots of things that puzzle me nowadays.
Despite their pleasant demeanor on various progressive Internet forums,
these people are That
Yoshie:
>Actually, they had a pretty decent & detailed special section on
>Kosovo, though I believe now it's unavailable on the net due to the
>libel suit that they lost.
Pretty decent?!!!? Ha-ha-ha. That's a good one. It stated that the war in
Kosovo started because the Labor Party in Great Br
Yoshie:
>Well, the above has to be a tongue-in-cheek remark, so I was gonna
>let it slide, but let me make one point here. There is a reason why
>James Heartfield & LM have been among the very few in the West who
>have made a very forceful criticism of demonization of Milosevic,
>Serbia, Huss
Lou:
> >For such a transition to happen, first of all, the FARC (with aid
>>from Hugo Chavez of Venezuela perhaps) -- or some other social forces
>>if the FARC fail -- have to _win_. Then, it will be up to them --
>>not you -- to reshape Columbia for the benefit of the Columbian
>>masses. What
>Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
>
>>Furthermore, under capitalism, folks in rich nations going
>>sugar-free, caffeine-free, nicotine-free, etc.
>
>...are more likely to be upscale, no?
>
>Doug
* ...Lower caste people partake of or otherwise come into
contact with substances which are considered
But we don't need to make fun of people here.
>
> I was making fun of Doug. Here's a grinning face to make that clear. ;-)
>
> Louis Proyect
> Marxism mailing list: http://www.marxmail.org/
>
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 530-898-5
you wrote: >"Mean People Suck" <
of course, here in Southern California, we also have bumper stickers saying
"Nice People Swallow."
in the center of actually-existing civilization,
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] & http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~JDevine
> >Socialism is _not_ about trying individually not to be an "icky"
>>person. You are sounding like high school students who buy bumper
>>stickers that say "Mean People Suck" & stuff like that. Harmless,
>>but a little silly.
>>
>>Yoshie
>
>I was making fun of Doug. Here's a grinning face to ma
>Greetings Economists,
> Yoshie writes,
>Would you say that the relation between Cuba & the Soviet Union was a
>"colonial" one because in it Cuba's role was to serve as a sugar
>producer albeit on terms 5-6 times better than those offered in the
>world market? Should each nation feed itself &
>Socialism is _not_ about trying individually not to be an "icky"
>person. You are sounding like high school students who buy bumper
>stickers that say "Mean People Suck" & stuff like that. Harmless,
>but a little silly.
>
>Yoshie
I was making fun of Doug. Here's a grinning face to make that
Yoshie:
>For such a transition to happen, first of all, the FARC (with aid
>from Hugo Chavez of Venezuela perhaps) -- or some other social forces
>if the FARC fail -- have to _win_. Then, it will be up to them --
>not you -- to reshape Columbia for the benefit of the Columbian
>masses. What'
> >Good luck selling your agenda to the masses. At least religion
>>promises eternal life under the loving care of God. I guess that's
>>why you want to restore "the sacral."
>>
>>Doug
>
>Well, Doug, I am challenging existing class relations. This is my
>obligation as a socialist. The richest fif
Lou:
>Yoshie:
>>What makes you think that communism as a world system -- should we
>>ever make a transition to it -- would be incapable of supplying folks
>>with not just corn, beans, vegetables, etc. but with tobacco, tea,
>>coffee, sugar, beef, etc. in moderate quantities?
>
>Moderate quantitie
le & even counter-productive.
Marxists' jobs is to disabuse them of the illusion of green
consumerism.
Doyle
We don't disagree about green consumerism. The local natural food store
with high prices, with the liberal clientele that has little or no fondness
for workers. That is not
>Good luck selling your agenda to the masses. At least religion
>promises eternal life under the loving care of God. I guess that's
>why you want to restore "the sacral."
>
>Doug
Well, Doug, I am challenging existing class relations. This is my
obligation as a socialist. The richest fifth of th
Yoshie:
>What makes you think that communism as a world system -- should we
>ever make a transition to it -- would be incapable of supplying folks
>with not just corn, beans, vegetables, etc. but with tobacco, tea,
>coffee, sugar, beef, etc. in moderate quantities?
Moderate quantities? I supp
_? If so, you are trying to make us
go back to Malthus & classical economists & say farewell to Marx.
> >Marxists' jobs is to disabuse them of the illusion of green
>>consumerism.
>
>I am not sure what you are talking about when you refer to "green
>consume
Louis Proyect wrote:
>Land and water should not be wasted, even under communism. Tobacco, tea and
>coffee vie for the same soil and water as corn, beans and vegetables. For
>that matter, beef will probably become as scarce as truffles.
Good luck selling your agenda to the masses. At least religi
be wasted, even under communism. Tobacco, tea and
coffee vie for the same soil and water as corn, beans and vegetables. For
that matter, beef will probably become as scarce as truffles. Meanwhile,
Cuba is not a "communist" country. Communism is a world system.
>Marxists' jobs is to dis
Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:
>Furthermore, under capitalism, folks in rich nations going
>sugar-free, caffeine-free, nicotine-free, etc.
...are more likely to be upscale, no?
Doug
ctive.
Marxists' jobs is to disabuse them of the illusion of green
consumerism.
Yoshie
At 09:27 AM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote:
>some of the best examples are available in another new book from Schor,
>coedited with Douglas Holt, The Consumer Society Reader. The benchmarks
>make the book worth buying: Marx on commodity fetishism; Veblen on
>"conspicuous consumption"; Galbraith on ho
prequel. It sought to explain how the nation allowed itself to get
to this pass in the first place: It's all those bills we have to pay.
The heart of that argument is distilled, and argued over by 12 other
prominent scholars of consumerism, in the excellent new paperback Do
Americans Shop To
e Triumph of American Materialism, would be
> excruciating. Twitchell, a professor of English and advertising at the
> University of Florida at Gainesville, seems to have deliberately crafted
> his tongue-in-cheek thesis to annoy as many people as possible.
> Consumerism, he argue
alism, would be
excruciating. Twitchell, a professor of English and advertising at the
University of Florida at Gainesville, seems to have deliberately crafted
his tongue-in-cheek thesis to annoy as many people as possible.
Consumerism, he argues, is not a bad thing; it is "democratic&qu
Dear Pen-Lrs,
Relevant to the recent discussion of the "Affluenza" program, I went back
and found an old staff memo ('94) done reviewing literature on the causes
and nature of "consumerism"--I just pass along here some of the concluding
findings that may or may not be
In a message dated 97-06-21 09:20:33 EDT, you write:
>Am I stuck in "Volume I" or did that old "naughty man" (as my 3-year old
>daughter Sarah tells me as she looks at the Dancing Marx's on my URPE
>t-shirt) say something about the real wage being "socially and historically"
>determined?
I think
r (8 mpg) when a "small" car will suffuce?; 2) you're not a
"real person" until you move up from a Toyota Tercel to a etc.
Consumerism is ingrained in our culture, much thanks to the socioeconomic
forces.
Are Americans ready to take on the values of Henry David T as oppose
Thad Williamson:
> 50 years from now we could have (at least) a 20
>hr work week society without giving anything up in income, and probably a
>lot saner society, if we converted all productivity gains into more free
time.
>
Thad is on the right track. Although I reject the sort of blueprint
appr
It seems to me that you can't even begin to talk about the consumerism issue
among the majority of Americans until some form of real economic security is
in place; otherwise the response Doug reports will be repeated over and over
with considerable justification. Universal economic securi
ot.
2. It ignores an analysis of where consumerism comes from--consumerism is to
capitalism as the sacraments are to Catholicism. Consumerism is fostered by
capitalism: it is what keeps us in debt and makes banks rich. For people to
reduce consumption, they must somehow reject the heart of
1 t 3 plant closings and had experienced long
spells of unemployment. I wonder where the leadership of this presumably
progressive union has been and why it does not have any program to offer in
place of rampant consumerism and killing work.
With this group i did not feel elitist to suggest
Doug Henwood asked,
>There's a lot that's right in Juliet Schor's critique of overwork and
>overconsumption, but there's also an elitism lurking somewhere in it that
>bothers me. . .
>
>How do you do this critique without risking snobbery?
The short answer is: with better accounting practices.
he is much better at
diagnosing a problem than coming up with a solution.
There is an underlying question that socialism needs to come up with a
solution for, but has not. Consumerism is a symptom of a profound spiritual
and psychological malaise that affects the more prosperous nations. In its
own mudd
There's a lot that's right in Juliet Schor's critique of overwork and
overconsumption, but there's also an elitism lurking somewhere in it that
bothers me. Years ago, at a Center for Popular Economics summer session,
Schor was pointing around on a map, saying essentially that with the folks
in the
hat's Wrong with Consumer Capitalism?"
quickly glances at Scitovsky's work and then develops a "structural
critique of consumerism" in the U.S.
The article raises some interesting points and is generally quite
good, though I disagree with parts of it. I thought I would shar
44 matches
Mail list logo
