En relación a [PEN-L:1399] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ,
el 7 Sep 00, a las 6:30, Brad De Long dijo:
> >En relación a [PEN-L:1354] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A slight, el 6
> >Sep 00, a las 16:25, Brad DeLong dijo:
> >
> >> >It is too long a story, but there has never existed a single
> >> >"habit of obedience" to those generals. Fear and hatred was what
> >> >there existed and exists. People here has never equated the Junta
> >> >Generals (pupils of American and French military, butchers of
> >> >their own people) with the great revolutionary civilians and
> >> >military of our Wars of Independence. The distinction was always
> >> >clear...
> >>
> >> To you the distinction was always clear. To others it was not--or
> >> the Junta would not have lasted as long as it did.
> >>
> >
> >You have no right to pass judgement on other people's toils under a
> >terrorist, pro-imperialist Junta. This para above is simply insulting
> >and I will not answer anything else on this thread.
> >
> >
> >Néstor Miguel Gorojovsky
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> I have every right to analyze what happened. If you want to know why
> the left in South America is in *big* trouble today, you look at the
> above claim--that analysis is to be avoided because it might be
> "insulting"--as a partial cause.
I am not avoiding analysis. I am trying not to lose my time with an
ignorant who does not want to learn.
>
> As I said: to teach people via public iconography that dulce et
> decorum pro patria mori reinforces nationalist-militarist habits of
> thought that are very convenient to Juntas.
On the contrary, because the problem lies in the "pro patria". There
are reams of writings on nationalism in semicolonial countries, and
Ho had a simple saying ("This country and socialism are one and the
same thing") that you will not read.
The Argentine Junta fell
> not because they were "butchers of their own people" (which they were)
> and the objects of "universal fear and hatred": the Junta fell because
> they failed on their own terms--they provoked and lost a war with
> Margaret Thatcher. That the Junta fell not because of their domestic
> crimes but because of their nationalist-militarist failure in exterior
> war may be "insulting," but it is also a fact.
Again you are displaying your ignorance. The war was exactly the
opposite than what they had done inside the country. They lost
because the smartest among them realized that they could not go on
betraying their own country and at the same time confronting
imperialist powers. So a coup was given, Bignone replaced Galtieri,
and we Argentinians were bestowed a colonial democracy.
>
> Will you at least *think* about what the sources of the Junta's power
> were, and how nationalist-militarist iconography reinforces them?
Not only I think about them, I have written lots on the issue, and
that monster you hate, nationalist-militaristic iconography, had to
do with them only in the flaccid minds of Buenos Aires petty
bourgeois intelectuals who feared bombings of the city if the just
war over our occupied territories would go ahead.
>
> For after all, if you won't remember and reflect upon the past, you
> are doomed to repeat it--and unfortunately the rest of us will be
> doomed to repeat it with you.
Nobody in Argentina is more reflexive upon the past of the country
than yours truly and the political current I belong to. We are even
known as historicist bums by some! Are YOU reflexive upon your past,
Brad?
Again: I will not go on with a thread where there are so many basic
issues to explain. Go take a good course in Marxism and history of
Latin America, and then, maybe, Doctor Gorojovsky will be in for you.
Néstor Miguel Gorojovsky
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
