Re: Re: Re: energy crises

2000-06-29 Thread GBK
But I do keep receiving messages! This time when I finaly got connected I've got more than 100 of them. What is wrong? Boris -Original Message- From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 27 ÉÀÎÑ 2000 Ç. 22:47 Subject: [PEN-L:20749] Re: Re:

Re: Re: Re: Re: energy crises

2000-06-29 Thread M A Jones
You have Yeltsin here? Cool. Mark Jones http://www.egroups.com/group/CrashList - Original Message - From: "GBK" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 1:45 PM Subject: [PEN-L:20935] Re: Re: Re: energy crises But I do keep receiving messages!

Re: Re: Re: Re: energy crises

2000-06-29 Thread Michael Perelman
I think that those messages came before the changes were made. I hope that we are ok now. GBK wrote: But I do keep receiving messages! This time when I finaly got connected I've got more than 100 of them. What is wrong? Boris -Original Message- From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL

Re: Re: Re: Re: energy crises

2000-06-28 Thread Michael Perelman
Nordhaus knows more math than the freshman. Eugene Coyle wrote: What's the difference between Nordhaus' theory and Freshman NC econ -- "the market will solve the problem"? Gene Coyle Michael Perelman wrote: Nordhaus assumed that there would always be an available "backstop"

Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: energy crises

2000-06-28 Thread M A Jones
Brad deLong wrote: Ummm Brad, you may end being known as the man who put the 'um' in 'dumb'. Do you suppose Simon's bet with Ehrlich is safe ground for you to stand on? You too, simply have no idea what the issue is. Mark Jones http://www.egroups.com/group/CrashList

Re: Re: RE: RE: RE: Re: energy crises

2000-06-28 Thread M A Jones
Max Sawicky wrote: I just don't believe it. When fossil fuels become sufficiently expensive, massive efforts will go into developing alternatives. There will be a lot of money to be made, coordination problems aside. To me that's more likely than green consciousness leading to

Re: Re: Re: energy crises

2000-06-27 Thread Jim Devine
At 11:42 AM 6/27/00 -0700, you wrote: Nordhaus assumed that there would always be an available "backstop" technology. I think that he had nukes in mind at the time. yeah, he assumed that nuclear power was a good thing. This suggests that he should have taken externalities into account. Jim

Re: RE: Re: energy crises

2000-06-27 Thread Doug Henwood
Mark Jones wrote: Jim Devine wrote: what's wrong with the Nordhaus theory? My main complaint is that the recovery from an energy crisis might easily be extremely painful and take a long time It might take several million years, and I'm not really joking. What are the alternatives to fossil?

RE: RE: Re: energy crises

2000-06-27 Thread Max Sawicky
Jim Devine wrote: what's wrong with the Nordhaus theory? My main complaint is that the recovery from an energy crisis might easily be extremely painful and take a long time It might take several million years, and I'm not really joking. What are the alternatives to fossil? (don't please

Re: RE: Re: energy crises

2000-06-27 Thread Jim Devine
Jim Devine wrote: what's wrong with the Nordhaus theory? My main complaint is that the recovery from an energy crisis might easily be extremely painful and take a long time It might take several million years, and I'm not really joking. What are the alternatives to fossil? (don't please

Re: RE: Re: energy crises

2000-06-27 Thread Ellen Frank
I haven't jumped into pen-le in a while, but this question spurs me to point out that the problem with the Nordhaus theory is that, right or wrong, it is irrelevant to the fundamental energy problem facing us today, which is global warming, not high fuel prices. And if there are no alternatives

RE: Re: RE: Re: energy crises

2000-06-27 Thread Max Sawicky
It might take several million years, and I'm not really joking. What are the alternatives to fossil? (don't please mention PV's, wind, hydrogen etc, because they are not alternatives) Can we do a Julian Simon-style bet? What's your timeframe, and what exactly are you expecting? Of course, if

Re: Re: Re: energy crises

2000-06-27 Thread Eugene Coyle
What's the difference between Nordhaus' theory and Freshman NC econ -- "the market will solve the problem"? Gene Coyle Michael Perelman wrote: Nordhaus assumed that there would always be an available "backstop" technology. I think that he had nukes in mind at the time. -- Michael

Re: Re: Re: Re: energy crises

2000-06-27 Thread Jim Devine
At 02:40 PM 6/27/00 -0700, you wrote: What's the difference between Nordhaus' theory and Freshman NC econ -- "the market will solve the problem"? it fits with freshman NC, though I think Nordhaus was being Schumpeterian -- and was open to the idea of the gov't helping the market. But then

RE: Re: Re: energy crises

2000-06-27 Thread Mark Jones
Bill Burgess wrote: Sent: 28 June 2000 00:58 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L:20785] Re: Re: energy crises I forget who Simon's bet was with (Paul Erlich?), but it is undeniable that better technology and higher relative prices can increase reserves of non-renewable resources

RE: RE: RE: Re: energy crises

2000-06-27 Thread Mark Jones
-L:20768] RE: RE: Re: energy crises Jim Devine wrote: what's wrong with the Nordhaus theory? My main complaint is that the recovery from an energy crisis might easily be extremely painful and take a long time It might take several million years, and I'm not really joking. What

RE: Re: RE: Re: energy crises

2000-06-27 Thread Mark Jones
says there is is simply deluded. Mark Jones http://www.egroups.com/group/CrashList -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jim Devine Sent: 27 June 2000 21:53 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L:20767] Re: RE: Re: energy crises Jim

RE: Re: RE: Re: energy crises

2000-06-27 Thread Mark Jones
nd general delirium. Mark Jones http://www.egroups.com/group/CrashList -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ellen Frank Sent: 27 June 2000 21:57 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L:20770] Re: RE: Re: energy crises I haven't jumped i

RE: RE: Re: RE: Re: energy crises

2000-06-27 Thread Mark Jones
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Max Sawicky Sent: 27 June 2000 22:05 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L:20771] RE: Re: RE: Re: energy crises It might take several million years, and I'm not really joking. What are the alternatives

Re: RE: RE: RE: Re: energy crises

2000-06-27 Thread Max Sawicky
Max, I'm not sure it *would* take to shake your sang-froid, the point I was making was the opposite, ie, despite fatuous assertions to the contrary, You're doing a good job. This is all a scenario for political disaster, I might note. By the time the shit hits the fan, it's too late to do

Re: RE: Re: Re: energy crises

2000-06-27 Thread Brad De Long
Bill Burgess wrote: Sent: 28 June 2000 00:58 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [PEN-L:20785] Re: Re: energy crises I forget who Simon's bet was with (Paul Erlich?), but it is undeniable that better technology and higher relative prices can increase reserves of non-renewable