Re: Brad bearish in Oz
Hey, Brad! You're speaking on a radio in a spider-infested little shed in New South Wales's southern highlands! You're rhetorically scratching your head at the empirical demise of homo economicus as I tap away (he may still be autonomous, acquisitive and competitive - but he ain't being rational, so the maximising-of-utility bit is moot, eh?). And you're arguing against John Naisbitt (did you know that's what you were doing?) that the old laws of economics should not so blithely be forgotten. Okay, so you're having a few bucks each way - still made a lot more sense than Naisbitt, mate. And sounded rather modestly unsure about the future, too - the sort of authoritatively reasoned bemusement that makes you very likeable and credible in juxtaposition with Naisbitt's (surprisingly, but sadly fashionable) abrasive and simplistic know-all certainty. And congrats on your homepage, too - I'm making my ISP very happy coz of it. There goes my sweetness quota for March. Cheers, Rob. Thanks. Flame away!... Brad DeLong
Re: What's going on here?
It has been some time now since I have seen anything remotely touching on economics here on the list. Maybe you're like me and don't exactly know what's going on in the economy. Will this series of interest rate hikes cut into the economy before the election? Naah. The lags are too long for any future interest rate hikes to affect production or employment before the election. Will the supposedly tight labor market lead to a round of union victories before the interest rate hikes take hold? Devoutly hope so. But this high-pressure labor market doesn't smell as high-pressure as the unemployment rate suggests that it should. Will a slowing United States economy pull down the rest of the world? Japan is doing a good job of pulling itself down all by itself. Elsewhere I see demand as likely to keep expanding even if the U.S. tanks... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: [Fwd: Re: Keeping Tabb]
G'day Carrol, Yes. I believe some other poster tried to confuse issues by claiming that when originally coined the word was intended to mean "split mind," but the claim is pointless. There is no significant sense in which schizophrenia is characterized by a "split mind," and the use of the term as a pejorative is offensive in the same way as racist and sexist terms are. Why? Schizophrenic people would generally like not to be schizophrenic (you ask 'em) - they feel something is wrong with 'em, and would like it fixed. There are arguments with which there is something wrong, too. And part of trying to fix an argument is to identify what's wrong with it, no? The vast majority of people understand 'schizophrenia' as 'split personality', Say, rather, that the colloquial English definition of the word "schizophrenia"--as split personality or cognitive dissonance or a failure to recognize that beliefs X and Y cannot both be true--has nothing to do with the disease "schizophrenia"... Brad DeLong
Re: Brad DeLong's column
Later, he writes that "Lowered interest rates [in the 1990s] driven in part by the shrinking of annual budget deficits..." According to the usual sources on interest rates, the 1990s real interest rates were high, not low. I wrote "lower*ed*" for a reason... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Brad DeLong's column
Both of the quotes-- deficits crowd out private investment and deficits cause high interest rates (more specifically there that lowering deficits cause lower interest rates) are pure Summers, but you are right that "pre-Keynesian" is the correct general label. Nah. In the context of the 1980s and 1990s, the Federal Reserve has its target for real GDP and unemployment that it will try to hit--so a bigger deficit means higher interest rates. It's not the pre-Keynesian childish babbling of a Say, but a certain (I think correct) view of how the Federal Reserve behaves... Brad DeLong -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- "Now 'in the long run' this [way of summarizing the quantity theory of money] is probably true But this long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. **In the long run** we are all dead. Economists set themselves too easy, too useless a task if in tempestuous seasons they can only tell us that when the storm is long past the ocean is flat again." --J.M. Keynes -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- J. Bradford De Long; Professor of Economics, U.C. Berkeley; Co-Editor, Journal of Economic Perspectives. Dept. of Economics, U.C. Berkeley, #3880 Berkeley, CA 94720-3880 (510) 643-4027; (925) 283-2709 phones (510) 642-6615; (925) 283-3897 faxes http://econ161.berkeley.edu/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: Re: Re: Brad DeLong's column
(BTW, before I start my diatribe, notice that higher interest rates (Brad's topic) are not the same thing as "crowding out" of private investment (Mat's topic). This is especially true because government deficits encourage private spending via the accelerator effect.) Very true... In the early 1980s, the Fed wasn't targeting real GDP. Rather, it was trying to break the back of inflation (and indirectly, that of the working class). Correct. But starting in 1984 or so they *were* trying to target real GDP... In the process, the second problem with Brad's riposte was revealed, i.e., the assumption that the Fed has the _power_ to target real GDP. They think they do (albeit imperfectly, with substantial errors) Brad DeLong
Re: Re: genome news
A Marxist sociologist Steve Rosenthal replies to those who think that there is no problem with studying genome. Mine Aysen Doyran PhD Student Department of Political Science SUNY at Albany Nelson A. Rockefeller College 135 Western Ave.; Milne 102 Albany, NY 1 Because of these sharp critiques, Wilson reinvented himself as an environmentalist concerned about bio-diversity. Serious critics of Wilson don't make such an accusation because it is false. One can be--and Wilson always has been--both a sociobiologist and an environmentalist concerned about bio-diversity. And a critique of sociobiology is not an argument against trying to use knowledge about our genes to cure and prevent diseases... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: genome news (fwd)
Brad,can you please read the rest of Steve's post, or the sentence that prior to the sentence you cite? since Steve is not here, I can not talk on behalf of him, but his work is an excellent piece in Marxian sociology. Steve wrote: Because of these sharp critiques, Wilson reinvented himself as an environmentalist concerned about bio-diversity. If it is an excellent piece of Marxian sociology, why does it make false claims about Wilson's intellectual development? Either Steve does not know enough about E.O. Wilson to know that he was always *both* a sociobiologist and an environmentalist--in which I have better things to spend my time reading, things written by people who have done their homework--or Steve knows that he is lying when he claims that Wilson's environmentalism is an intellectual re-make--in which case I have better things to spend my time reading, things written by people who don't lie to me. Brad DeLong
Re: RE: Re: Re: Re: genome news (fwd)
Brad,can you please read the rest of Steve's post, or the sentence that prior to the sentence you cite? since Steve is not here, I can not talk on behalf of him, but his work is an excellent piece in Marxian sociology. Here's a precious snippet from this nitwit (Steve Rosenthal) from a couple of years ago: . . . This line of attack against the Clintonites is being led by Dick Gephardt and the business and big labor forces behind him. The Economic Policy Institute (EPI), whose funding comes from the Rockefeller Foundation, C.S. Mott (GM), Russell Sage (Cabot gas and banking money), sets forth the line Gephardt has been offering . . . http://csf.colorado.edu/mail/psn/jan98/0072.html No I don't save this stuff. I remembered since I wrote a reply (which he didn't answer), and I thought I would see if I could find it quickly with Google. Came up instantly. Google rules. mbs Google Rules! Brad DeLong
Re: Re: guns, germs, steel
I dont know if this is a work of "total genius" but it is certainly a masterful explanation for the differing patterns of development of the continents of the world. But what is so troubling for many in the left about this book is that it proves beyond a doubt that Africa's backwardness was a result of its ecology - i.e., lack of domesticable animals among other things - and not some mythical "underdevelopment" process. Diamond's argument is that ecology and distance explain Africans' relatively poor command over technology as of 1500. The underdevelopment comes later, with the triangle trade and its effect on west Africa. And this has always been the part of Diamond's argument that I have had the most doubts about. East Africa seems to me at least to have been part of the Eurasian ekumene--why else would the largest city on the east African coast, the House of Peace, have a name from a language whose heartland is two thousand miles north? Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: guns, germs, steel
I do know that Jim Blaut makes a few dismissive comments in Diamond's direction. Myself, I have yet to see anything in the reviews that would make me want to delve into his book. I first stumbled across Diamond about ten years ago, when reviews portrayed him as a sociobiologist in the Robert Ardrey mold. Here's one to give you a flavor for how he was perceived in the press. I am just not motivated to read these characters, who seem to be a subspecies of social Darwinism. Well, you are wrong. That ain't Diamond... Brad DeLong
Re: guns, germs, steel
I don't know, West Africa was "more advanced" than Europe during the European Middle Ages, the 500 years before 1500. The ecology didn't change in the interim. I tend to think of Europe's leap forward over the rest of the world (not just Africa) in the last 500 years, as an expression of a sort of law of evolutionary potential ( "the last shall be first"). The idea is that the area that is most backward in one period has the most potential to leap forward in the next period because when you at the bottom of the heap you are more open to change, whereas when you are on top you cling to the status quo. CB Interesting idea Ken Pomeranz's _The Great Divergence_ develops it to some degree--that the very *success* of India and China at mobilizing resources gave them large populations, and that Europe's earlier lack of success at mobilizing resources gave at an extra edge of free resources that helped propel it forward in the early modern period... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: guns, germs, steel
Because, he would say, that region is not Africa, that is, Black Africa. __ CB: What does being BLACK Africa have to do with "ecological/geographical conditions" ? Sounds like Diamond has an inconsistent and racist theory. Simply saying that one can, as Diamond does, draw a rough line accross the African continent to distinguish "white" Africa from "black" Africa proper. Egyptians, Tunisians, Moroccans, Libyans and others in the Northern areas are "white". No. They're not. They're Mediterranean--it's really easy for them to trade, fight, and learn from people from all over Eurasia...
Re: Re: Re: Close the IMF
At 02:35 PM 4/11/00 -0500, you wrote: Dornbusch was just on Talk of the Nation on NPR. Just disgraceful. Spoke of the "poor IMF," it's working people's fault for electing bad governments, etc. one of his main enemies is something called "populism," which refers to any kind of effort to control markets, corporations, etc. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://liberalarts.lmu.edu/~jdevine Not a fair characterization of Dornbusch's category of "populism," as you should know... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: guns, germs, steel
Logically, therefore, scholars and intellectuals of color militantly critique books, lectures and other intellectual expressions that express and reflect this white supremacy or racism. Even liberal scholars can reflect white supremacy, such that one part of their work is anti-racist, but mixed with it are racist concepts. The dualism of liberals on race is a well-settled phenomenon. CB And when they accuse anti-racist authors *whom* *they* *have* *not* *read* of racism, they look *really* *stupid*... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: racism, eurocentrism
Jim Blaut in his book *The Colonizer's Model of the World* gives a partial list of what he takes to be core eurocentric theories. I hope he doesn't mind me reproducing it here. 1. The Neolithic Revolution-- the invention of agriculture and the beginnings of a settled way of life for humanity-- occurred in the Middle East (or bible lands). This view was unopposed before 1930, and is still the majority view. what's eurocentric about this?- never mind that this is still the proven view. This is one of the odd things about Blaut--that sometimes the Middle East (all the way to Iran!) is "Europe," and sometimes it is not. And you seem to think that "truth" has something to do with this: as the English Common Law did not say, the greater the truth, the greater the eurocentrism... :-) Brad DeLong
Re: Re: racism, eurocentrism (fwd)
very true. plus Luxemburg.. Lenin and Trotsky were both champions of arguments against the Second International-Menshevik claim that socialism couldn't take root in 'backward' places. Bill Burgess And on all the evidence, all three of them were wrong, and Martov and company were right... Brad DeLong
Re: PK on A16
In the NY TIMES, April 19, Paul Krugman writes: When Seattle Man [sic] went to Washington, his activities were coordinated in large part by a Web site, www.a16.org. Browsing the site, I was struck by the critique of the World Bank, written by Robert Naiman -- the activist who threw a pie in the face of Michel Camdessus, the former International Monetary Fund chief, a few months ago. Mr. Naiman's favorite -- indeed only -- example of how bank-imposed policies inflict economic damage is the way the bank "destroyed Mozambique's cashew nut processing industry, by forcing Mozambique to remove export tariffs on raw cashew nuts." ... So the anti-globalists trumpet one of the few cases in which a third-world group actually advocates export restrictions. Somehow nobody notices that this group actually represents a small, relatively privileged minority, and that its demands would directly harm a much larger group of even poorer people. And thus Seattle Man [sic] maintains his [sic] comfortable sense of moral superiority. This is a common strain in PK's works, attacking the motives of those who disagree with him. And he then ignores the elitism and moral self-righteousness of those at the IMF and the World Bank, who know "what's best" for humanity and thus leverage the poor countries' indebtedness into the power to impose the same cookie-cutter neo-Liberal "solution" on all of the countries of the world. BTW, is there anyone on this list who has more knowledge on Mozambique's cashews? Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think Paul's gotcha. A strong bias against relatively small-scale rural producers has been one of the worst things about African state-led development over the past generation (see Robert Bates's _Markets and States in Tropical Africa_, or Dumont's _False Start in Africa_). And it does look like this Mozambiquan export tax is a remnant of that bias. After all, successful episodes of state-led development involve export promotions much more than export taxes... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: PK on A16
Brad DeLong wrote: A strong bias against relatively small-scale rural producers has been one of the worst things about African state-led development over the past generation (see Robert Bates's _Markets and States in Tropical Africa_, or Dumont's _False Start in Africa_). And it does look like this Mozambiquan export tax is a remnant of that bias. which is why, probably, Prof. Bates wrote the book _ Toward a political economy of development: a rational choice perspective _ Publisher: Berkeley :University of California Press,c1988. -- Mine Aysen Doyran I'm missing something...
Re: Re: Re: Re: PK on A16
Brad, you are not missing anything! I was making a critical comment on Bates' approach to development. I am assuming we are talking about the same Bates here (Robert). Regarding his _Markets and States_, I don't completely disagree with the fact that state-led development had biases towards small agricultural producers in Africa. This is evident. What I don't agree is that Bates treats this problem as if it is simply state's choice to promote export strategy or behave in certain ways to disbenefit rural producers. Bates' method is methodologically individualistic. He treats states as individuals. Accordingly, he disregards world systemic dynamics, or the question of why Africa was left with promoting a "certain" type of development strategy. I think this methodological problem is more evident in his later book _Toward a political economy of development: a rational choice perspective_ that is what i meant... Mine Actually I thought that in _Markets and States_ Bates treated holders of state power as actors constrained by politically-powerful classes, kind of like someone else did in _The Eighteenth Brumaire_... But I agree that more recently Bates's insights have seemed to me to be more obscured than sharpened by the "rational choice" methodology in political science... Brad DeLong
Re: query on cashews
I don't think it's worth my time forwarding the articles on Mozambican cashews to Krugman, since he's already staked his reputation on the cashew question in the NY TIMES and is unlikely to back down. But we have someone who's a pretty orthodox economist on pen-l. Brad, what do you think of the articles... Let me look... Not here. I block-deleted a big chunk of unread mail last weekend, and it must have been in there... Could you please send 'em again?
Re: query on cashews
I have seen summaries of a Deloitte and Touche report supporting the Mozambique cashew-nut producers, described as saying: The new study was carried out by international consultants Deloitte Touche and the World Bank's previous policy "should be abandoned" [because]: 1) Indian subsidies to its industry "tilt the playing field" and make competition unfair. 2) Peasants did not gain anything from liberalised exports; extra profits were all earned by "traders" and those few farmers who were able to store nuts until the end of the processing season 3) "Improved management practices continue to contribute to factory efficiency" in the newly privatised Mozambican factories. 4) Mozambique can earn an extra $130 per tonne by processing its own cashew kernels--increasing total earnings from about $750 per tonne to $880 per tonne.. My first reaction is that something's wrong with the subsidy argument. If India *subsidizes* its cashew nut processing industry than Mozambique can capture part of that subsidy by letting Indian workers do the processing--the bigger the subsidy, the stronger the argument for exporting raw nuts. (Unless, of course, you think there is something special and important about the learning-by-doing generated in the cashew processing industry, which I don't). My second reaction is that, as Paul Krugman wrote, any claim out of Africa that "peasants did not gain anything from liberalized exports; extra profits were all held by the traders" should be viewed with great suspicion: it is a remnant of the old-fashioned belief-- criticized by Dumont a generation ago--that the countryside is a stagnant source of resources to be taxed and exploited to support urban development, that it is important to foreclose any options that rural producers and marketers have that would increase their bargaining power. Over the past generation such policies have been a disaster for rural Africa. Thus anyone making such an argument should have to answer two questions: Where does the extraordinary market power held by these traders come from? And why weren't they exercising it under the old trade regime? To argue that it is good to redistribute wealth from rural peasants to urban factory-owners by cutting off their ability to export raw nuts is one thing. To argue that cutting off the ability to export raw nuts does not harm peasants is something else entirely and is hard to credit. My third reaction is that management consultants--like Deloitte and Touche--always claim that the firm they are studying is about to experience enormous increases in managerial efficiency, and they are almost always wrong. And my fourth reaction is that Mozambique would probably be better off spending the money needed to realize that $130 a ton on schools and transportation. Vietnamese and Indian cashew-nut processors are willing and able to pay higher prices on the dock at Maputo than are domestic producers--that's why the domestic industry is crying for protection. And if your domestic industry can't match the costs of foreign producers, that's a powerful sign that this is not an industry into which a country should be pouring its resources. Brad DeLong
Re: Re: query on cashews
BUT IS IT TOO LATE? But is it all too late? The export tax was cut to 14% this year and more than half of Mozambican raw nuts were exported to India. Factories ran out of nuts and by mid-year began to shed staff. Most of the 14 factories are now closed; 7000 of the 9000 workers (most women) are now out of work. Cutting the export tax from 20% to 14%--from about $150 per tonne of cashews to $105 per tonne--caused more than half of Mozambican raw nuts to be exported to India? And caused 80% of the workers to be laid off?
Re: Poor in US more likely to face tax audits (fwd)
Poor in US more likely to face tax audits By Shannon Jones 22 April 2000 Another side of this issue is that the General Accounting Office did a report to follow up on the infamous Roth hearings that ventilated citizen tales of IRS abuses. GAO found that none of the anti-IRS charges held water. GAO was prevented from releasing the report, purportedly on the grounds of citizen confidentiality. A copy leaked out anyway and it turns out there was little or no confidentiality issue -- any personal stuff was blacked out and there wasn't much of it. mbs I'd like a copy,if you know where I could find one... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: youth crime enforcement bias (fwd)
Jim Devine: the author, Scott Shuger, was simply asking questions about these issues. I was hoping for answers to these questions rather than name-calling based on a partial reading. first, let me decompose the neo-liberal journalist Mr.Shuger's Hey! Shuger is not a neo-liberal. I'm a neo-liberal. Shuger is a guy who believes that the reason African-American college students have fewer computers than white college students is that African-Americans prefer to spend their money on fast cars and loud music systems. What he is... is unprintable... Brad DeLong
Re: cabbies
is there any indication at all that cabdrivers are paid more in order to compensate them for the riskiness of their jobs? To my mind, this lack of a wage premium seems a nail in the coffin of Adam Smith's "compensating differences" theory. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://liberalarts.lmu.edu/~jdevine No. As Alan Krueger says, attempts to use labor market data to demonstrate the existence of compensating differentials routinely fail: even controlling for a bunch of stuff, the most difficult and unpleasant jobs are also the lowest paid... Brad DeLong
Re: [weisbrot-columns] Not Exactly Free Trade
Once again, American workers at the lower rungs of the pay scale are being asked to sacrifice their jobs and wages on the altar of "free trade," so that the poorer countries of the world might pursue an economic development strategy that offers little hope for the vast majority of their own populations. Over the last 25 years, we have lost more than a million jobs in textiles and apparel... Name: Mark Weisbrot Why this extraordinary desire to keep Africa from exporting textiles to the U.S.--to keep Africa poor and keep Roger Milliken rich? Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Darwin's dilemma (fwd)
Has anyone else here read R.P. Wolff's lovely litearry appreciation of Capital, Moneybags Should be So Lucky? Yes... If Wolff is correct in his assessment of what Marx is trying to do in chapter 1, volume 1, then all I can say is that Marx failed--that Wolff is perhaps the first and only reader to understand him... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: [weisbrot-columns] Not Exactly FreeTrade
Since capital is so much more mobile than labor, the free movement of capital will give far more advantages to the employers then the employees. Part of the story is also the opening up of agriculture to free trade so that people will be swept off the land and forced into low-wage jobs which will not create much opportunity. We saw this in Mexico. Michael Perelman Roger Milliken thinks that he will lose a *lot* of money if the quotas on African textile imports into the United States are removed. Are you saying that he is a bad judge of his own interests, and that he will actually profit *more* if Africans export more textiles to America? Brad DeLong
Re: Re: [weisbrot-columns] (fwd)
Besides the problems with the article (which i have not read in details), the fact that Indians make "commercial movies" should not lead you to normalize the brutality of western imperialism and epidemic violence done to third world people. did you ever attempt to think why Indian directors shift to producing commercial movies? Actually, you don't need to go to third world.Indians were killed here. African Americans were used as slave labor, and they are still treated as non-humans. Criticizing this has nothing to do with "returning to the innocence and purity" of the third world. On the contrary, white men wanted to create this "purity" by _actually_ eliminating people. It was not so long ago-- eugenic laws were practiced here till 1965. Mine Why this extraordinary desire to keep Africa from exporting textiles to the U.S.--to keep Africa poor and keep Roger Milliken rich? If I understand what you are saying, it is that (a) eugenic laws were practiced here in the U.S. until 1965, and so (b) African textile businesses should be prohibited from exporting more than a narrowly-limited quota of goods to the U.S. I'm missing something here... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [weisbrot-columns] Not ExactlyFreeTrade
Much of the poverty of Africa has to do with the devastation imposed by Europe and North America. Yes, they have been plauged by corrupt leaders also, but that was probably also fostered by the same powers. Now, the idea is to intergrate more closely into the global economy with a minimum of local control. Roger M. will do ok either way. Just because it is in his interest to oppose such arrangements does not make the opposition irrational. -- Michael Perelman Ummm... You said that AGOA was in Milliken's interest--that capital was more mobile than labor, and hence that (American) capital would benefit rather than (African) labor from removing the quotas on exports of textiles from Africa. Are you now withdrawing that claim? It seems so. I agree that your initial claim was false. But I would like to know on what grounds you then oppose AGOA, if you now agree that it will make Roger Milliken somewhat poorer... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: [weisbrot-columns] Not Exactly FreeTrade
At 09:09 AM 5/8/00 -0700, you wrote: Once again, American workers at the lower rungs of the pay scale are being asked to sacrifice their jobs and wages on the altar of "free trade," so that the poorer countries of the world might pursue an economic development strategy that offers little hope for the vast majority of their own populations. Over the last 25 years, we have lost more than a million jobs in textiles and apparel... Name: Mark Weisbrot Why this extraordinary desire to keep Africa from exporting textiles to the U.S.--to keep Africa poor and keep Roger Milliken rich? if the (neo)liberals in government (a group that included Brad awhile ago) would push to adequately compensate workers who lose their jobs due to trade-related problems (not to mention capital flight), then you would see many fewer unions and pro-union folks siding with slimy folks like Milliken. Give me Speaker Gephardt and Majority Leader Daschle, and we would do it...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [weisbrot-columns] Not Exactly FreeTrade
Michael P writes: Roger M. will do ok either way. Just because it is in his interest to oppose such arrangements does not make the opposition irrational. it's important to avoid Brad's style of argument here, which seems similar to guilt-by-association: If Roger Milliken (boo, hiss) is for something, it _must be_ bad. That's like saying that just because Farrakan or the UC-Berkeley economics department is for something, it must be wrong. Jim Devine BULLSHIT!!! Michael Perelman said that he was opposed to AGOA because capital was internationally mobile--hence the beneficiaries from AGOA are not (African) labor but (American) capital. I pointed out that Roger Milliken--American textile capital--thinks that AGOA is not in his material interest, suggesting that (as I believe) the beneficiaries from AGOA will be (among others) African labor. No guilt-by-association.
Re: RE: Re: Re: Re: [weisbrot-columns] Not ExactlyFreeTrade
if the (neo)liberals in government (a group that included Brad awhile ago) would push to adequately compensate workers who lose their jobs due to trade-related problems (not to mention capital flight), then you would see many fewer unions and pro-union folks siding with slimy folks like Milliken. Give me Speaker Gephardt and Majority Leader Daschle, and we would do it... We should all hope so, but why didn't our boyz Foley and Mitchell 'do it' in 1993? mbs Damned if I know... I remember people wanting to stack striker replacement between the budget (with the EITC) and NAFTA, before health care began. The arguments I always heard from the White House were that it would be easier to do striker replacement after health care was won... I still remember the days when Bill Clinton used to argue that in the context of rapidly-rising income inequality the Democrats could not afford to nominate someone as conservative as Paul Tsongas. And I fell for it. No more unknown governors from small southern states... Brad DeLong
Re: RE:Milliken
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c106:5:./temp/~c106uyCI0L:e76497: SEC. 402. TRADE ADJUSTMENT ASSISTANCE FOR TEXTILE AND APPAREL WORKERS. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, workers in textile and apparel firms who lose their jobs or are threatened with job loss as a result of either (1) a decrease in the firm's sales or production; or (2) a firm's plant or facility closure or relocation, shall be certified by the Secretary of Labor as eligible to receive adjustment assistance at the same level of benefits as workers certified under subchapter D of chapter 2 of title II of the Trade Act of 1974 not later than 30 days after the date a petition for certification is filed under such title II = So Brad, who should pay for this, the taxpayers or the firms that move their plants? Ian Taxpayers in general. The European experience with charging firms for firing workers *may* have been counterproductive. I'd rather run a slightly more progressive tax system and put responsibility for TAA on general revenues... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: Re: [weisbrot-columns] NotExactly FreeTrade
In a message dated 00-05-08 18:36:14 EDT, you write: No more unknown governors from small southern states... What about relatively well known ex-Senators from small Southern states, Brad? --jks Better than unknown governors from *large* southern states... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: contradictions of capitalism
Also, I'm not defending a romantisized version of the traditional farm. I would like to see progress, but I do not believe that the sweat shop is the appropriate agency for development. As long as the choice is between the traditional farm and the sweat shop, the case for the sweat shop will be stronger. The corporate press usually frames the choices that way. I don't think that we have to. Michael Perelman But when you support quotas against imports of textiles from Africa, that is exactly the choice that you are making... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: Re: contradictions of capitalism
The actual sweatshop employees will have to build their own struggles from within their own conditions -- and what we think about sweatshops is irrelevant. So to some extent this whole debate, on both sides, as been academic trivializing. Carrol Oh not at all. It is very real. Whether or not the U.S. removes its quotas on textile imports from Africa matters... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: Re: Clarification about African trade(fwd)
I agree with Micheal. Workers earning their livings in sweatshops do not even get a living wage. Let's not make the situation look better. Particulary, women workers are more vulnerable to exploitation in this process.It is true that most of the women in this part of the world come to cities to find jobs in order to escape themselves from old fashioned rural patriarchy. Yes, they prefer to work in Nike rather than in rice fields. What happens is that they are now exploited by capitalist bosses who use them as slave labor. But they're better off than they would be if they weren't exploited by capitalist bosses, right? Didn't Joan Robinson understand this? Brad DeLong -- This is the Unix version of the 'I Love You' virus. It works on the honor system. If you receive this mail, please delete a bunch of GIFs, MP3s and binaries from your home directory. Then send a copy of this e-mail to everyone you know...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)
Title: Re: [PEN-L:18928] Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd) How much of the legislation relates to tariffs? Brad De Long wrote: And this is supposed to be an argument that U.S. restrictions on imports of African textiles are for Africans' own good? -- Michael Perelman Title: An act to authorize a new trade and investment policy for sub-Sahara Africa, expand trade benefits to the countries in the Caribbean Basin, renew the generalized system of preferences, and reauthorize the trade adjustment assistance programs. Title I: Extension of Certain Trade Benefits to Sub-Saharan Africa - Subtitle A: Trade Policy for Sub-Saharan Africa - African Growth and Opportunity Act - Declares the support of Congress for: (1) encouraging increased trade and investment between the United States and sub-Saharan Africa; (2) reducing tariff and nontariff barriers and other obstacles to sub-Saharan and U.S. trade; (3) negotiating reciprocal and mutually beneficial trade agreements, including the possibility of establishing free trade areas that serve the interests of both the United States and the countries of sub-Saharan Africa; (4) focusing on countries committed to accountable government, economic reform, the eradication of poverty, and the development of political freedom; and (5) establishing a United States-Sub-Saharan African Economic Cooperation Forum. Subtitle B: Extension of Certain Trade Benefits to Sub-Saharan Africa - Amends the Trade Act of 1974 to authorize the President to designate a sub-Saharan African country as a beneficiary sub-Saharan African country eligible to receive duty-free treatment, through September 30, 2006, for any non-import-sensitive article (except for textile luggage) that is the growth, product, or manufacture of such country, if the President determines that such country: (1) has established, or is making continual progress toward establishing, a market-based economy, a democratic society, an open trading system, economic policies to reduce poverty, and a system to combat corruption and bribery; (2) does not engage in gross violations of internationally recognized human rights or provide support for acts of international terrorism; and (3) otherwise satisfies applicable eligibility requirements. (Sec. 111) Directs the President to monitor and review the progress of sub-Saharan countries to determine their current or potential eligibility under the requirements of this Act. Waives the competitive need limitation with respect to eligible beneficiary sub-Saharan African countries. (Sec. 112) Grants duty-free treatment, without any quantitative limitations, to textile and apparel articles (including textile luggage) imported from a beneficiary sub-Saharan African country, if such country: (1) adopts an efficient visa system to guard against unlawful transshipment of such goods and the use of counterfeit documents; and (2) enacts legislation or promulgates regulations that would permit U.S. Customs verification teams to have the access necessary to investigate allegations of transshipment through the country. Directs the President to deny trade benefits under this Act to any exporter that has engaged in transshipment with respect to textile or apparel products from a beneficiary sub-Saharan African country. Directs the Customs Service to monitor, and report annually to Congress, on the effectiveness of certain anti-circumvention systems and on measures taken by sub-Saharan African countries that export textiles or apparel to the United States to prevent circumvention as described in article 5 of the Agreement on Textiles and Clothing. Authorizes the President to impose appropriate remedies, including restrictions on or the removal of quota-free and duty-free treatment provided under this Act, in the event that textile and apparel articles from a beneficiary sub-Saharan African country are being imported in such increased quantities as to cause serious damage (or actual threat thereof) to the domestic industry producing like or directly competitive articles. (Sec. 113) Directs the President to convene annual meetings between U.S. Government officials and officials of the governments of sub-Saharan African countries to foster close economic ties between them. Directs the President to establish a United States-Sub-Saharan African Trade and Economic Cooperation Forum which shall discuss expanding trade and investment relations between the United States and sub-Saharan Africa. (Sec. 114) Directs the President to examine, and report to specified congressional committees, the feasibility of negotiating a free trade agreement with interested sub-Saharan African countries. (Sec. 116) Expresses the sense of Congress that: (1) it is in the interest of the United States to take all necessary steps to prevent further spread of infectious disease, particularly HIV-AIDS; and (2) there is critical need for effective incentives to develop new pharmaceuticals, vaccines, and therapies to combat
Re: Re: technology and legal systems
Rod Hay [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/13/00 09:31AM "Technology always ends up putting some other industry 'out of business.' The automobile replaced the carriage; the airplane replaced the train (if you're looking for socialism, look at how the U.S. government props up Amtrak); the Internet is replacing traditional publishing industries. _ CB: If you are looking for faux socialism ( state monopoly capitalism) look at how the U.S. government, the Federal Reserve Bank, bailed out that giant hedge fund when it failed. Or Chrysler , before it was Daimler. How much money did the U.S. government commit to Long Term Capital Management? How much money did the U.S. government lose in its investment in Chrysler? Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: Re: technology and legal systems
CB: If you are looking for faux socialism ( state monopoly capitalism) look at how the U.S. government, the Federal Reserve Bank, bailed out that giant hedge fund when it failed. Or Chrysler , before it was Daimler. How much money did the U.S. government commit to Long Term Capital Management? How much money did the U.S. government lose in its investment in Chrysler? none and none. But didn't the Fed implicitly guarantee the loans that the private banks made to LTCM? No. They took equity positions...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: technology and legal systems
At 07:57 PM 05/15/2000 -0700, you wrote: CB: If you are looking for faux socialism ( state monopoly capitalism) look at how the U.S. government, the Federal Reserve Bank, bailed out that giant hedge fund when it failed. Or Chrysler , before it was Daimler. How much money did the U.S. government commit to Long Term Capital Management? How much money did the U.S. government lose in its investment in Chrysler? none and none. But didn't the Fed implicitly guarantee the loans that the private banks made to LTCM? No. They took equity positions... so didn't the Fed implicitly promise to support these equity positions that the banks took? Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://liberalarts.lmu.edu/~JDevine How do you support an equity position?
Re: Re: China
The answer is that this fight should not be made our fight. The problem is that many progressive groups are making this a top priority. We should be putting our energy into and mobilizing people around other issues and struggles. Marty You're right: trying to keep China poorer is not a "progressive" cause... Brad DeLong
Re: China
Martin Hart-Landsberg wrote: Max previously quoted a labor publication which opposed giving China PNTR based on a variety of arguments including that the country was communist, that the government did not follow free market policies, that workers were repressed, and that China's entrance into the WTO would unleash an export flood that would hurt US workers. The anti-China campaign gives me a serious case of the creeps - it's right out of the long tradition of Yellow Perilism, compounded with old-fashioned anti-Communist Red Perilism. But today's Financial Times reports that 9 out of 10 U.S. CEOs support PNTR and WTO entry. This is a major priority for big capital. So is the one true "progressive" position on this to support PNTR/WTO entry, along with the Fortune 500? Seems to me this is an extremely complicated issue, much too complicated for a simple yes/no answer. Doug No one seems to be arguing that PNTR will make China poor. No one seems to be arguing the U.S.'s trade policy can be used as significant leverage to improve Chinese government treatment of its own people. The argument against PNTR seems to be that it is a move in a symbolic card game, an implicit approval of China's anti-human policies. So why not go with David Ricardo on this one?
Re: Re: FW: LAT - China, Mexico: Same DepressingTale on Labor Rights
Very nice article, Max. Brad tended to write about the Africa bill as if it were choice between helping Africa or helping the United States. In fact, as the article from the Progressive showed, the effect of the bill would be to transform both Africa and United States to be more to the liking of capital. -- Michael Perelman Keeping quotas on imports of African textiles will keep Africa poorer than it would otherwise be, yes. And if Africa is poorer Africa will be less to the liking of capital, yes. But you have forgotten the object of the exercise. The object is not to keep Africans barefoot and under the thumb of corrupt despots and to cheer "hooray! It's not to the liking of capital!" Brad DeLong
Genderization (fwd)
Jim, from what I see, Marge Piercy is not a Marxist feminist. Thus, it is difficult for me to understand what her relevance to leftism is, because she evidently suffers from biological essentialism. Feminists like Marge Piercy belongs to what we know as radical feminist tradition. The big problem with her argument is that she assumes "gender inequality" stems from "biological inequality", the type of argument proposed by Schulamit Firestone in the 70s in the _Dialectics of Sex_. Since she sees the problem in the biology, but not in the gendered system, she offers "biological alteration" as a form of "cultural solution" to inequality problem--the problem which does not originate in biology to begin with (men and women may be biologically different but not unequal!!!). so she effectively perpetuates the sexist biological discourses.. Piercy is also naive to expect technology to liberate women or socialize men into feminine practices. We (socialist feminists) want MEN to feed babies not because they should be "biologically recreated" to do so (since the problem is NOT in the biology), but because it is "desirable" that men and women share mothering equally!! Mothering is a social function, it does not lie in women's biological disposition. I refuse Marge Piercy type of feminist discource that idealizes and radicalizes motherhood as a form of new intimacy!! Mine Much more of this and I'll start thinking about all of modern sociobiology's good points... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: Re: FW: LAT - China, Mexico: SameDepressingTale on Labor Rights
Brad, we're arguing at cross purposes. If the bill with were merely lower tariffs, you would be correct. If the bill is going to be used to impose neoliberal policies, then I would strenuously oppose it. Shoddy argument. As written, the bill offers countries a choice: do whatever is required to get certified as a country moving toward a market economy and get substantial market access; or don't get certified and don't get any of the quota relaxations and tariff reductions. "Neoliberal policies" get "imposed" only if the governments of the countries themselves decide that the game is worth the candle. Yes, many governments of African countries are undemocratic; many are dominated by cruel elites; many should be overthrown immediately. Yes, African countries should be offered a better menu of choices than the bill offers them. But whether the principal effect is to aid or harm African development--and whether they ought to accept or reject their package--ought to be *their* choice. You want to make that choice for them, and restrict their options. One thing that the statist old-socialist tradition never, never learned was that to narrow somebody's options is in general not to do them a benefit.
Re: Re: Re: Re: FW: LAT - China, Mexico: SameDepressingTale on Labor Rights
What was the problem with Jesse Jackson's bill? No problem with Jesse Jackson's bill--save that 218 representatives wouldn't vote for it.
Re: Re: Re: China
No one seems to be arguing the U.S.'s trade policy can be used as significant leverage to improve Chinese government treatment of its own people. The argument against PNTR seems to be that it is a move in a symbolic card game, an implicit approval of China's anti-human policies. Actually lots of people are arguing that. So who's "no one"? As significant leverage? Maybe I just hang out with too many people who think that economic sanctions are ineffective against non-democratic governments...
Re: Re: FW: LAT - China, Mexico: SameDepressingTale on Labor Rights
Yes, African countries should be offered a better menu of choices than the bill offers them. But whether the principal effect is to aid or harm African development--and whether they ought to accept or reject their package--ought to be *their* choice. You want to make that choice for them, and restrict their options. No. I do not want to make that choice for them, and restrict their options. Why do you always use such attributions? -- Michael Perelman Yes you do: you want to keep countries that want to "make progress toward a market economy" and get the increased trade access from doing so...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FW: LAT - China, Mexico: Same DepressingTale on Labor Rights
At 02:39 PM 05/16/2000 -0700, you wrote: What was the problem with Jesse Jackson's bill? No problem with Jesse Jackson's bill--save that 218 representatives wouldn't vote for it. so might makes right? Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://liberalarts.lmu.edu/~JDevine Say rather that politics is the art of the possible...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FW: LAT - China, Mexico: Same DepressingTale on Labor Rights
At 02:38 PM 05/16/2000 -0700, you wrote: Brad, we're arguing at cross purposes. If the bill with were merely lower tariffs, you would be correct. If the bill is going to be used to impose neoliberal policies, then I would strenuously oppose it. Brad writes: Shoddy argument. As written, the bill offers countries a choice: do whatever is required to get certified as a country moving toward a market economy and get substantial market access; or don't get certified and don't get any of the quota relaxations and tariff reductions. "Neoliberal policies" get "imposed" only if the governments of the countries themselves decide that the game is worth the candle. this is not really a choice if you run a country that is dominated by debt service. If you have no choice, than the AGOA is a clear, clear winner: you have the structural adjustment program anyway, and better to have it with the opportunity to export than to have it with one's exports quotaed...
Re: Re: Re: essentialism
It would be "essentialist" to reduce men to that characteristic... It is also "essentialist" to speak of "men" as a category that a single thought can "reduce"... It is also "essentialist" to speak of "essentialism" as a single intellectual move that has common effects in a wide range of domains... It is also "essentialist" to speak of "essentialism" as if it has an "essence" that can be unproblematically labeled... It is also "essentialist" to label "essentialism" as "essentialist"... It is also "essentialist" to subject all "essentialism" to the common criticism of being "essentialist"... To deny the heterogeneity of the different things collected under the heading of "essentialism" is "essentially" "essentialist"... :-)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: FW: LAT - China, Mexico: Same DepressingTale on Labor Rights
If one really wants the world to improve, one has to make an effort to _change_ the balance of power. That involves _organizing_ people to counteract the powers that be. It does not mean that we say "oh, there's only one choice: a bogus 'free trade' bill that forces African countries to toe the neoliberal Party Line OR continued protection for the evil Roger Miliken and his puppets." It means that we have to look for better alternatives, like the bill proposed by JJJr. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://liberalarts.lmu.edu/~JDevine I think that removing quotas on U.S. imports of African-made textiles will make the world a better place: more better jobs at better wages for Africans. It isn't "bogus." As Michel Foucault once said: "There is a difference between criticizing 'reformism' as a political practice, and criticizing a political practice because it might lead to a reform." The first involves criticizing people who think that whatever is currently politically attainable is enough--that one should do what is immediately possible, and then stop and go home. The second involves refusing to do what is currently politically attainable on the grounds that it isn't enough... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Marx and Malleability
At 10:48 AM 05/17/2000 -0400, you wrote: Second, the claim that forcing people to be free is OK does not follow from malleability, if if Marx held the malleability thesis. Rousseau used the seemingly sinister saying about forcing people to be free. But one of his points, I believe, is that _any_ society involves forcing people to be free. Well, most societies force people to be *not* free. It is very important to maintain a proper distinction between "forcing people to be free" and "forcing people not to be free"...
Re: RE: Re: Re: Re: essentialism
Listen, I have a small jar of vanilla essence in my kitchen, what does that make me? Vanilla or essential? Mark Jones You cannot have such a jar. The critique of essentialism has finally, totally, and completely demonstrated that the "essence" of vanilla does not exist.
Re: Re: Re: Re: essentialism (fwd)
since those who regularly employ the term "essentialism" are anti-Enlightenment, should it be a surprise that their discussion isn't enlightening? Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://liberalarts.lmu.edu/~jdevine ROFLOL...
Re: Re: Marx and Malleability
yea, and why do you stop the citation in the comma? I am well aware that there are two Marxes, the one who tends to be democratic and the one who tends to be dictatorial. A kinder, gentler way to put it is that there are two Marxes, the one who believes in the free development of each and the one who believes that when they fight their oppressors the people have one single general will that the dictatorship of the proletariat expresses... Ole Charlie didn't understand much about political organization, or tyranny of the majority, or bureaucratic process, or separation of powers, or rights that people should be able to exercise against every form of state. In many ways Tocqueville thought deeper and saw further as far as political sociology is concerned... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: Re: Marx and Malleability
Not contradictory. As Draper has shown, the Dictatorship of the P. is a temporary waystation to allow the future free development. Brad De Long wrote: yea, and why do you stop the citation in the comma? I am well aware that there are two Marxes, the one who tends to be democratic and the one who tends to be dictatorial. A kinder, gentler way to put it is that there are two Marxes, the one who believes in the free development of each and the one who believes that when they fight their oppressors the people have one single general will that the dictatorship of the proletariat expresses... Ole Charlie didn't understand much about political organization, or tyranny of the majority, or bureaucratic process, or separation of powers, or rights that people should be able to exercise against every form of state. In many ways Tocqueville thought deeper and saw further as far as political sociology is concerned... Brad DeLong -- Michael Perelman Or, in other words: "Democracy? We don't need no stinkin' democracy! We directly express the general will!" I would think that Cromwell was the first to make this mistake, when he dismissed the Long Parliament. Robespierre certainly made it--and then executed both Hebert and Danton when it became clear that their vision of direct expression of the general will was different from his. Dictatorship is not a temporary waystation but a switchpoint that--as Camille Desmoulins, Nikolai Bukharin, Peng Dehuai, and many, many others learned--led straight to Hell. But the point was made a long time ago by Rosa Luxemburg: "The suppression of political life in the whole of the country must bring in its wake a progressive paralysis of life in the Soviets themselves. In the absence of universal franchise, of unrestricted freedom of press and assembly and of free discussion, life in any public body is bound to wither, to become a mere semblance of life in which only bureaucracy can remain an active element. This is a law from which nobody is exempt. Public life gradually becomes dormant while a few dozen party leaders of inexhaustable energy and boundless idealism do the ruling and directing; from among these a dozen outstanding intellectuals do the real leading while an elite from the working class is summoned from time to time to meetings, there to applaud the speeches of the leaders and to give unanimous approval to the resolutions laid before them - in fact, power in the hands of cliques, a dictatorship certainly, but a dictatorship not of the proletariats but of a handful of politicians"
Re: African trade (was lots of re:) Mexico: Same DepressingTale on Labor Rights
Brad De Long wrote: I think that removing quotas on U.S. imports of African-made textiles will make the world a better place: more better jobs at better wages for Africans. It isn't "bogus." If there are going to be better jobs at better wages in Africa, where are the folks who lose their jobs? Guatamala? China? Indonesia? USA? Somebody has to pay with their livelihood. Or is your argument that clothes will become so much cheaper we will throw them away just that much more rapidly that demand will meet the new supply? Gene Coyle Probably the U.S.: Africa sends us textiles; we send Africa backhoes, VCR tapes, and more opportunities for African elite families to shop on 5th Avenue. Effects on the U.S. economy are impossible to see--the U.S. economy is so big. Effects on African economies may be substantial. Average labor productivity in both Africa and the U.S. rises. Real wages in Africa for urban workers surely rise, and for rural workers probably rise. Real wages in the U.S. for unskilled manufacturing and service workers probably fall. (In a new-growth-theory world, however, the fall in the price of clothing may lead to rising real wages in the U.S., at least for non-textile industry workers.) Income inequality in both Africa and the U.S. probably rises too... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Marx and Malleability
Jim, Hi. I'm back, at least for a few weeks. Guess I'll side with Brad D. on this one, although only slightly. I agree that the first Marx is clearly the dominant one in most of his writings, the one for free development of people. But he did at certain points issue some rather sulphurous diatribes about the wretchedness of bourgeois democracy and also painted a not so nice picture of the dictatorship of the proletariat as well in certain passages, these getting picked up by good old Lenin to justify some of his more unpleasant Bolshevik excesses... So why, then, is the first Marx so weak in post-Marxian Marxism? Why was the world afflicted with, say, Paul Sweezy's claim that "One need not have a specific idea of a... beautiful musical composition, to recognize that the... the rock-and-roll that blares at us exemplify a pattern of utilization of human and material resources which is inimical to human welfare"? I suspect that there is more to it than Marx's lack of thought about how systems of self-rule and people-power could actually work. I suspect it was his refusal to imagine his version of socialism that has made the currents of thought that flowed from him in many cases positively hostile to forms of free development that they do not like... Brad DeLong
Re: Africa and free trade
Like NAFTA, the debate came down him to a question of the tariffs for textile producers. As I understand the bill, the reduction of tariffs is certainly the least objectionable aspect of the package. Along with the tariff reduction, come all sort of demands for the imposition of neoliberal policies that cripple the ability to maneuver in the future. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Do you really think that African governments are likely to attain the relative autonomy, focus on economic development as a principal goal, and bureaucratic competence needed to run a successful developmental state? A lot of things have to go right before a country's government can even think of successfully taking the Japanese or the Korean road. If, at some time in the future, an African government confident in its own economic strategy wishes to abandon the market-access benefits of AGOA in order to pursue state-led development, it can decide to do so. But that such a government might emerge in the future is no reason to keep African countries under tight textile export quotas now...
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)
Brad, I also noticed that the bill was concerned about the elimination of corruption. What is the record of United States regarding corruption? Our political campaigns are nothing more than organized bribery. Is it possible for a non-corrupt politicians to get elected to anything higher than the City Council in a small town? How many corrupt leaders has United States propped up around the world? This is not an argument that AGOA is a bad thing...
Marx and Malleability
Brad De Long wrote: So why, then, is the first Marx so weak in post-Marxian Marxism? Why was the world afflicted with, say, Paul Sweezy's claim that "One need not have a specific idea of a... beautiful musical composition, to recognize that the... the rock-and-roll that blares at us exemplify a pattern of utilization of human and material resources which is inimical to human welfare"? My god. Where did he say that? Doug _Monopoly Capital_, pp. 138-9. He also takes after slums and cars with big fins, where he has more of a point...
Re: Marx and Malleability
K Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit on 19/5/00 4:16 am, Brad De Long at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brad De Long wrote: So why, then, is the first Marx so weak in post-Marxian Marxism? Why was the world afflicted with, say, Paul Sweezy's claim that "One need not have a specific idea of a... beautiful musical composition, to recognize that the... the rock-and-roll that blares at us exemplify a pattern of utilization of human and material resources which is inimical to human welfare"? My god. Where did he say that? Doug _Monopoly Capital_, pp. 138-9. He also takes after slums and cars with big fins, where he has more of a point... Hey Brad What's your beef with Sweezy? You have already tried to discredit him by referring us to his citations of J.V. Stalin of yore. Now it's time for the rock and roll generation to disassociate itself from this obvious reactionary -- is that the idea? Michael K. I think that the line between Sweezy's attitude toward rock-and-roll and the suppression of the Czechoslovakian Jazz Section, or the bulldozing of Moscow modern art exhibits, is pretty clear. The point is not the "discrediting" of Sweezy, but how it came to be that people who claimed to be committed to a tradition that extolled human freedom, potential, and development could be so hostile to... ...jazz ...modern art ...rock and roll That is an interesting historical puzzle; I would like to have a sense of why it happened. Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)
On Fri, 12 May 2000, Louis Proyect wrote: very often of a seasonal nature. If you read Juliette Schor's "The Overworked American", you will discover that the average peasant worked half as many hours as the average proletarian during the rise of the industrial revolution. That is the reason resistance to the Enclosure Acts and bans on hunting was so fierce. But didn't this have to do with limited food sources and chronic disease and malnutrition? Peasant societies couldn't sustain year-round work efforts simply because most folks were hungry most of the time (no refrigeration, few reserves, salt was a luxury, etc.), right? -- Dennis Either that or people actually *liked* having their teeth fall out... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Sowing Dragons (fwd)
Louis Proyect wrote: Either that or people actually *liked* having their teeth fall out... Brad DeLong I don't think the discussion is about dental hygeine. It is about the right of a Vietnamese in the 60s or a Colombian peasant today to not have napalm dropped on them because they believe that the development theories of Walt Rostow are inappropriate to their society. And this is supposed to be an argument that U.S. restrictions on imports of African textiles are for Africans' own good? This makes even less sense than usual...
Re: Re: RE: American looneyism EVERYWHERE
Michael Hoover [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/12/00 05:48PM btw: Michael Parenti has noted that policy of containing spread of slavery was promptly reversed following death of President Zachary Taylor (southern slaveowner opposed to extension of slavery and secession) death. Parenti's article "The Strange Death of President Zachary Taylor" (*New Political Science*, Vol. 20, #2: June 1998) raises questions about official cause of death (severe indigestion from eating too many iced cherries with milk after sitting too long in sun, or something like that), looks askance at mainstream historians' parroting of official line despite insufficient evidence, and critiques conclusion drawn from 1991 exhumation that Taylor was not poisoned. __ CB: Soon someone will denigrate Parenti as a conspiracy theorist. Coup d'etats may be more common in U.S. history than legends of American democracy have it. CB I'll denigrate Parenti for being unwilling to look at evidence--they did dig the guy up, after all, out of historical curiosity... Brad DeLong
[PEN-L:4867] Re: Re: Stats on recent atrocities
If the U.S. were really concerned about mass slaughter, it would have done something about the mass slaughter in Rwanda and the Sudan. It didn't - in part because the dead are African, and in part because there's no pressing imperial interest there. Doug Just what is the impressive imperial interest in Kosovo supposed to be? As somebody-or-other once said, what is there in the Balkans that is worth the bones of a single Pomeranian grenadier? Brad DeLong
[PEN-L:4293] Re: Japan stares down Uncle Sam's 'Big Three' [fwd]
http://www.afr.com.au/content/990308/world/wtokyo.html "Kenichi Ohmae . . . believes Japan is being 'micro-managed' by the United States. "In particular, he says it is being run by the 'Committee of Three' - Federal Treasury heads Robert Rubin and Larry Summers and Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan. "Their motives, according to Ohmae, are not so much to keep Japan under the thumb as to provide a constant diet of alternative resuscitation measures - such as quantitative easing in monetary policy - so Japan won't be tempted to do what it actually needs to do to revitalise: liquidate assets, including holdings of US treasury bonds." Hmmm. Liquidating U.S. Treasury bonds means that the price of Treasury bonds and other denominated assets relative to yen assets falls, which means that the yen rises, which means that U.S. demand for Japanese products falls. This means that (with the U.S. no longer serving as the importer of last resort) Japan falls deeper into recession. Am I missing something? What's the alternative theory by which raising your exchange rate expands your economy? Brad DeLong
[PEN-L:6929] Re: Rosser on Kurds/Kosovars
Barkley, I have some difficulty with your whole discussion and comparison of the situation in Turkey and Kosovo. The reason is fairly straightforward. First, there was no genocide, ethnic cleansing, forced removal, denial of language rights, etc. etc. in Kosovo prior to the bombing. ... [O]n a proportional basis, the Albanians were forcing out the Serbs, not the opposite. (i.e. NATO should have been bombing Tirana, not Beograd.)... It is we, members of NATO, that have caused the ethnic cleansing by our bombing Paul Phillips Why this strange and pathetic attempt to deny the agency of those who are undertaking the ethnic cleansing? And why this attempt to make every Muslim in the region bar responsbility for the terrorist deeds of the KLA? Brad DeLong
[PEN-L:6329] Ciao, Baby
All complaints about Clinton Administration policy and the Democratic Party may be directed to Nathan Newman and Prof. Brad DeLong. ... Regards, mbs Complaints about the Democratic Party--the only true hope for human progress over the next quarter century--I will be glad to receive and deal with appropriately. Complaints about the Clinton Administration... It's not *my* Clinton Administration... It hasn't been *my* Clinton Administration since they signed Welfare Reform and Helms-Burton... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: Re: Re:Re:Re:Re:MarxandMalleability (fwd)
Mine, The monarchy had already been overthrown by December 1917. The Duma Lenin shut down was not "under the patronage of the monarchy." The electoral winners, were socialists and revolutionary ones. Just a different brand than Lenin's Bolsheviks. Marx praised the direct election of the leaders of the Paris Commune. The post-revolutionary election of December 1917 cannot be called "bourgeois constitutionalism." This fit Marx's prescription. But Lenin wanted power and he took it. Much that few approve of followed from his assertion of anti-democratic power. Barkley Rosser But, you see, Lenin had the blessing of History on his side. What matter majorities and elections when you are doing the will of History? Brad DeLong
Marx and Malleability
The sheer extent of Marx's despair at the end, his absolute repudiation of events as they'd turned out, his remorseless cynicism about the everyday world of labour-bureaucracies, with their time-serving placemen and greasy little deals -- this is something we barely know and can hardly guess at, but in fact his latter writings, as do his latter SILENCES, his failure to complete any of Capital after vol I (pub 1867) speak eloquently enough, once you understand what's going on. This was a man who had not expected to end his days in Bournemouth watching young governesses push prams and ply their trade; he'd expected volcanoes to erupt and to transfigure the geology of human civilisation, let alone its routine history. He'd expected to win power, to be a statesman for his elective class, and to begin epochal processes of change. It was not to beHe was not justified by events, and died painfully, in despair, defeated and in obscurity. Mark Jones applause Powerfully argued. I'm not sure it's right, but it is well-said... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: four walls, three too many
Charles Brown wrote: CB: This sounds like you think like it would be better if you were somewhere near state power. Holier than she is , are you ? Nope, I'm an infidel, suspected of bourgeois tendencies even. Doug ...who goes to parties with the Treasury Secretary. I heard that as far as Wolfensohn was concerned, the last straw was Stiglitz calling *his* *own* former staff at the World Bank "third rate"... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Zizek, Stalin and Bukharin
OK, if Lou wants to think of me as an anticommunist cold-warrior in the neighorhood of the Reaganites, that is his right. --Justin Don't take it too hard. He thinks I'm a libertarian troll... :-) Brad DeLong
Re: Airplanes falling out of the sky
There has been an epidemic of airliners falling "mysteriously" from the sky in recent years... All these problems are related to "deregulation", a policy that has been applied across the board to the trucking, railroad and airline industry. It has produced harried operator and maintenance crews. In exchange for profit returns that Wall Street brokerage houses can smile on, we get smack-ups on Amtrak and airplanes falling out of the sky. Deregulation is not a right-wing plot. One of the most forceful advocates is Ted Kennedy, who believed that Joe Six-Pack was getting cheated out of affordable air travel. I guess neglect and stupidity about air travel runs in the Kennedy family. Meanwhile, as the body count mounts in accidents of these kinds, the two party system responsible for forcing deregulation down the throat of the American people share equal blame. And we have gone from having one serious commercial aviation accident per 140 million miles flown in 1970 to having one serious commercial aviation accident per 1.4 billion miles flown today. You can indict capitalism for many reasons, but an increased likelihood of dying in an airliner crash is not one of them... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: Airplanes falling out of the sky
Louis Proyect wrote: One of the most forceful advocates is Ted Kennedy, who believed that Joe Six-Pack was getting cheated out of affordable air travel. I guess neglect and stupidity about air travel runs in the Kennedy family. But Joe Sixpack *was* getting cheated out of affordable air travel. Our current pricing configuration--low prices for vacationers who plan in advance and stay over Saturday night, high prices for business travelers who complete round trips within the week--and our current hub-and-spoke system (which provides greater capacity at the price of more hassle) are products of deregulation. Don't any of you fly anywhere on vacation? Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: Airplanes falling out of the sky
G'day Brad, And we have gone from having one serious commercial aviation accident per 140 million miles flown in 1970 to having one serious commercial aviation accident per 1.4 billion miles flown today. You can indict capitalism for many reasons, but an increased likelihood of dying in an airliner crash is not one of them... I don't question your figures, but would point out that capitalism is not a static thing. We haven't had a fatal Qantas crash yet (as the Dustin the Rainman told Tom the Wally), but we seem to be recording an amazing increase in 'technical problems' and 'near-misses' (who was it said a near miss must mean a hit? But I digress) in Australia of late. And capitalism's dynamics have lately contributed to corporatisation, privatisation and merger in an industry marked by some real world-wide profit problems over the last decade and a bit. Planes are getting better, sure - capitalism should be about market-selected innovations. But the quality of the newly built plane ain't the only determinant in the equation. You use a 1970 v. 1999 comparison, but for much of the world, airlines were publicly owned / tightly regulated for most of that time (during which a fair bit of that improvement must have manifested), and the consequences of the great transformation might be some time in imposing themselves statistically. It might be that we have some hairy moments to look forward to (I notice the almost coincidental Cote d'Ivoire crash, with twice the LA crash body-count, hasn't rated much of a mention) as the deregulatory/privateering moment gradually works away at all those wires, welds, pilots and ground crews. It eventually happened with Yorkshire water, Auckland electricity, Melbourne gas, Sydney trains and outback telephones - or so it seems to me. Waddyareckon? Cheers, Rob. Seems to me that air safety is one place where the market gives airline executives and airplane manufacturing and maintenance executives exactly the right incentives: people aren't going to fly airplanes or airlines that crash regularly... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Airplanes falling out of the sky
Don't fly to Chico from San Francisco. Going to New York is cheaper. It wasn't before dereg. So it was not beneficial to all consumers. But there are a lot more of us who want to fly from San Francisco to New York. Bentham would approve... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Airplanes falling out of the sky
Hi again, Brad, Seems to me that air safety is one place where the market gives airline executives and airplane manufacturing and maintenance executives exactly the right incentives: people aren't going to fly airplanes or airlines that crash regularly... They only have to make sure they don't crash more often than the dwindling array of competitors, Brad. Touche...
Journal of Economic Perspectives
A while ago the _JEP_ had a short symposium on "Austrian" economics: Harvey Rosen wrote a sympathetic critique of the Austrian school, and Leland Yeager responded. This seemed to work: communication was accomplished. The selection of Harvey as someone definitely in the establishment but not unsympathetic to the Austrian point of view proved a good way to get Austrian concerns and views in front of the _JEP's_ readership. The selection of Leland to comment prevented the symposium from collapsing into being just Harvey Rosen's view of Austrian economics. Should the powers-that-be at the _JEP_ decide that it is time to do the same thing for "Radical" economics, who should play the role of Harvey Rosen? Who should play the role of Leland Yeager? Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Journal of Economic Perspectives
It seems to me that "radical economics" does not denote a coherent entity the way "Austrian economics" does. There are too many perspectives and methodologies. "Post-Marxist economics" then? Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: Re: Airplanes falling out of the sky
Jim Devine wrote: I read some stats in LBO awhile back that indicated that price-deregulation didn't really lead to lower airline ticket prices. Doug? Yup, this is a long-standing LBO obsession. See other post. The dereg partisans like to quote real fares per seat-mile, which are down since dereg. Problem is people aren't seats. They have to fly longer now - one or two stops have become the norm. Flying from NYC to Virginia? Change planes in Chicago. If you wanted to fly from NY to Seattle tomorrow, it'd probably cost you around $1,800 round trip. You could save $1,200 on that by buying 3 or more weeks in advance, but long gone are the days of $200 cross-country flights. But that's because demand is strong. It'll be very interesting to see what happens in the next recession. In the early 1990s, the cumulative losses of the airline industry exceeded its cumulative profits starting from the days of the Wright Bros. first flight. When demand is weak, the temptation to sell otherwise empty seats below cost is enormous. Doug $200 round trip or $200 one way? Brad DeLong, thinking of flying to Paris for $486 roundtrip in late march...
Re: Re: Journal of Economic Perspectives
I think Brad De Long's idea of a JEP mini-symposium on "radical economics" is an excellent one, which I appreciate. One possibility to consider: I edited a book published in 1995 entitled *Heterodox Economic Theories: True or False* (the title was a take-off on one of Mark Blaug's books). One of the sections was on "radical economics." Michael Reich (one of Brad's colleagues at Cal-Berkeley) wrote a response to a previous "methodological appraisal" of "radical economics" by Blaug, Blaug responded, and a comment on this exchange was made by economic methodologist Wade Hands. I think the debate was interesting. Perhaps these individuals could adapt and "update" their appraisals for the JEP. Interesting idea... Brad DeLong, off to the library
Re: Re: Journal of Economic Perspectives
Radicals tend to agree on objectives (loosely) and they share a dislike for the status quo in both the economics profession and the wider universe, but that's about it. You can't just be against something. You have to be for something. Or there's no there there... Brad DeLong, peering out his office window at Oakland
Re: Re: Journal of Economic Perspectives
Some time ago, I spoke with Tim Taylor, editor of the Journal of Economic Perspectives, about the possibility of a survey of radical economics. I, at least, am somewhat allergic to the word "survey." "Survey" calls up the image of an article for the _Journal of Economic Literature_ or the _Handbook of the Economics of Toenail Clipping_ that is 70 pages long, takes as its mission to cite everyone who has ever written on the topic, and is hard to read--even if it is a good reference for people thinking about participating in some particular research program. "Perspective" sounds much better to my ear. Now whose perspective[s] would be interesting? Brad DeLong
Re: RE: Re: RE: Journal of Economic Perspectives
Or maybe he should set up a sociologist versus economist shoot-out. I'm confident the former would love the opportunity. One of them told me once, "you economists have totally screwed up policy debate. You individualize everything." mbs Reminds me of a week that I went to two meetings, both called to discuss the problem of a perceived inability of professors to get high-quality section leaders for their courses. Economist Larry Lindsey asked the university administration to withdraw its prohibition against people teaching two sections of Economics 10 (which, IIRC, put them above the 50% of full time level at which their health insurance costs got shifted from the graduate student to the teaching staff budget). Sociologist Orlando Patterson sent out a letter telling graduate students that the professors would in the future regard graduate students who taught sections for non-sociology courses--i.e., history and literature, social studies, historical analysis, et cetera--as in some way disloyal to their department and their discipline. This left me thinking that there is a *lot* to be said for market incentives when the alternative is social control, and that sociologists are--at some fundamental and deep level--enemies of Utopia. Brad DeLong
Re: Re: RE: Re: RE: Journal of Economic Perspectives
It looks like Brad has emulated the goddess Eris, who (in the myth) spawned the Trojan War by setting up a contest about which goddess was prettiest. In our context, this has set up a conflict about who's "really" radical or "really" Marxist, along with characterizations of what kind of work people do. Of course, we didn't really need that much of a push, did we? Frankly, I think that the JEP articles should be done by whomever really wants to do them. There's some sort of princely payment in return, right Brad? Nope. Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Journal of Economic Perspectives
Let's make it fun. Get Krugman to do the review of lefty economics and William Greider to respond. Tom Walker I like Paul a lot. Paul has been very good to me. Paul can't do a sympathetic critique of *anyone*. I don't think it would accomplish my educational objectives... But you are right: it would be fun to watch... Bard DeLong
Journal of Economic Perspectives
It looks like Brad has emulated the goddess Eris... Well, Discordianism is the dominant religion of the internet. (Just as Librarianism is the dominant political philosophy of the internet.) Brad DeLong
Re: How to characterize Haider
Anyway, its' time to stop the 1930s analogies. Haider is not Hitler, Austria is not Germany, and we don't have the Comintern to kick around any more. Let's get serious. Nathan isn't going to fess up--when the Democarts nominate Pat Buchanan and David Duke, he will be talking about how they are center-right opportunists, but consider the alternative--the rest of us, however, should be clear about about bad the Third Way is and why. Disgusted in Chicago, Justin Another one for the kill file... Brad DeLong
Re: smartness
Again we see the old Keynes quote out of context. The original sense was that if we waited for the economy to work itself out of an depression, "in the long run" as was advocated by the right, we would all be dead by the time it happened, i.e., it wouldn't happen. The rest of the article, however, is right on. Rod Leo Huberman (via Louis Proyect) wrote: Keynesian economics, by its very nature, has very little interest in the long-term problems of capitalism. "In the long run," Keynes himself once wrote, "we shall all be dead." Why is there this extraordinary--eager--desire to take Keynes's quote out of context? Brad DeLong -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- "Now 'in the long run' this [way of summarizing the quantity theory of money] is probably true But this long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. **In the long run** we are all dead. Economists set themselves too easy, too useless a task if in tempestuous seasons they can only tell us that when the storm is long past the ocean is flat again." --J.M. Keynes -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- J. Bradford De Long; Professor of Economics, U.C. Berkeley; Co-Editor, Journal of Economic Perspectives. Dept. of Economics, U.C. Berkeley, #3880 Berkeley, CA 94720-3880 (510) 643-4027; (925) 283-2709 phones (510) 642-6615; (925) 283-3897 faxes http://econ161.berkeley.edu/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: email gambit (was fuck the math . . .)
I haven't had so much fun since a bunch of latter-day Anarcho-Pagans called me provocateur and police agent. O.K., O.K. I can see I'm not welcome here. Unless I get positive feedback from other subscribers, Pen-l won't have me to kick it around anymore. *That's* my gambit. I'm not in it for the gratuitous abuse. Roger Odisio wrote, Typical email gambit, I see. Create a strawman position (Max, I, and others aren't merely answering the "arithmetic" question about progressivity, but "seem to be arguing" for some claim of distributive justice), attribute it to others, and whack away. But you've added a novel twist, at least. That strawman you've created is so unworthy, you say, you refuse to talk about it! I can't think of anything further I could possibly want to say on the topic of progressivity, Tom, including in response to whatever it is you can dream up to say about my last two messages. Bye. Tom Walker I'll provide some positive feedback... Brad DeLong
Re: Re: Re: smartness
Brad De Long wrote: Why is there this extraordinary--eager--desire to take Keynes's quote out of context? Remarkable, isn't it? Didn't Hayek offer the charming interpretation that Keynes's queerness made him not care about the future? Doug I missed this. Where? Brad DeLong
Re: executive committee
Max writes: If you think the state is the executive committee of the bourgeoisie, than you are a public choice theorist too. *Sigh* Marx did not write in the _Manifesto_ that the state is the executive committee of the bourgeoisie. He wrote that the executive of the modern state is a committee for managing the affairs of the bourgeoisie--suggesting that the democratically-elected legislature of the modern state is something else. This misquotation has served the function through the twentieth century of making Marx appear closer to Lenin than he in fact was... Brad DeLong
Re: reparations
I was recently thinking about Robinson's call for reparations. Suppose that United States was called upon to pay reparations for what they imposed on the slaves, what they took from the indigenous people, the damage that they caused through imperialism. How many years of gross domestic product might be involved? -- Michael Perelman I'm still waiting for my reparations from the Revocation of the Edict of Nantes... Brad DeLong
Re: The Bill of Gates fallacy
Microsoft Timeline Business @ the Speed of Thought Remarks by Bill Gates Georgetown University School of Business March 24, 1999 QUESTION: During the course of the presentation, you mentioned job reduction a number of times. While, as business students, we can all appreciate what that means for the bottom line, have you put any thought into what it means for society as a whole? MR. GATES: Well, part of the lesson of economics is that there are infinite demands for jobs out there, as long as you want class sizes to be smaller, or entertainment services to be better, there's not a lump of labor where there's a finite demand for a certain number of jobs. And so, as efficiency changes, such as in food production, the jobs shifted to manufacturing. As efficiencies were gained there, those jobs moved into services. In fact, there's no shortage of things that can be done. So, it's not like we're going to run out of jobs here. Tom Walker Well, we haven't, have we? The physiocrats in 1770 were really worried about mass urban unemployment that would follow should the agricultural share of the French labor force drop below 70%. Today 2% (IIRC) of our labor force is engaged in agriculture as farmers or farm laborers. And there are more gardeners, groundskeepers, and growers of ornamental plants than there are members of the agricultural labor force. Getting people the skills to take new jobs as old kinds of jobs vanish is, of course, a problem we are doing a bad job of dealing with... Brad DeLong
Re: reparations
Max: At some point, however, going back in time becomes an exercise in political rhetoric rather than one of social justice. How far back is appropriate? Its not about going back in time. It is about political power. Zionism was a joint project of Jewish ruling-class figures and Anglo-American imperialism. Reparations strengthened the state of Israel which was then used to keep the Arab revolution on the defensive. Louis Proyect Give me a break. There is no "Arab revolution" to be put on the defensive. There never was. Brad DeLong
