Re: Newsday: Iran wanted US to invade?
There is one thing i forgot to add and that is in a place where a tribe is 5 to 8000 years old and where lineage down to abraham times is taken as relaity rather than myth, anonymity is impossible. no one can colloborate with the occupation forceswithout a tremendous cost. so anyone who lives in the near east and especially iraq knows that the us invasion will sooner rather than later be doomed to failure... in the mean time in the process or in the becomingness of events in time and space, ie.anywhere between victory and failure, the us's capital will grow and near east population along with poor american soldiers will be paying a heavy price. this is a war of the rich against the poor and in view of the situation in iraq before the war it is the war of the richest against the poorest.soula avramidis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the real area of interest of iran is not north in pakistan or south lebanon.. the real one is in the gulf where sunni arab moslems control commerce and rent appropriation by wedding a merchant class to despotic politics. the gulf is where the money is and to extract the money you need some politics. americans in iraq would have to deal with a majority shiite turning power to them underminig a whole history of sunni control over govenment and commerce in a major gulf country. a pro us shiite iraq is a dream come true for commercilaising mullahs and a nightmare for the sauds et al. thus, in the final analysis there will be more shiite merchants buying cheap on the international markets and selling dear to a bigger gulf market with a high purchaing power.. an arrangement that is at rock bottom reminisecnt of ventian trade or trade that does industrialise any of the countires of the region because the merchant holds power over industrial capital in the is post colonial formation. small countries with big armies and capital flight will persist in a pre capitalist form of despotic internal articulation where women don't drive and just get fat watching tv. as to an arabmetaphor similar to goethe's from the koran: 'a word of truth that harbours mal intent'Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why would Iran want more US bases next door?On Sun, May 23, 2004 at 04:22:19PM +, Mohammad Maljoo wrote: goes to show that the real reasons behind the rise of the mullahs and the iraqi iranian war was a resurrection of the farsi nationalism. A few meaningless words!Bazaar class? Farsi racism? resurrection of the farsi nationalism? What are these at all? The mullahs in Iran are a continuation of Arabian fundamentalism with other mask. The real reasons behind the iraqi iranian war can be found in Saddam phenomenon rather than the illusory resurrection of the farsi nationalism. MM _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail--Michael PerelmanEconomics DepartmentCalifornia State UniversityChico, CA 95929Tel. 530-898-5321E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu Do you Yahoo!?Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger Do you Yahoo!?Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger
Re: Newsday: Iran wanted US to invade?
No pejorative wording intended... capital vol 3 page 327: 'On the contrary wherever merchant's capital still predominates we find backward conditions.' that is the bazaar class. since the revolution there was no fundemental change in the forms and substance of social or economic relations that existed under the shah. the shah industrialisation project did undercut the interest of merchant capital. saddam was his own man and nobody's man...apart from conspiracy drivel, Islamic Iran kept intact the demeaning Algiers accord won by Iraqi Kurds for the shah. post hoc, is it not that the rise ofIslamic Iran put an end to the Kurdish, loori, and balush and other independence movements. do not the Farsis still represent the elite at present.. was it not the case that a pro soviet Iraq surrounded for a long time Iran Saudi Arabia and turkey from all sides.. what theory of history pins historical development on an individual like saddam, can there be no structure in place to explain things outside the single individual will and volition. I hope I did not abuse your national feelings I have no national feelings myself, I hate all nationalisms equally including my own.Mohammad Maljoo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: goes to show that the real reasons behind the rise of the mullahs and theiraqi iranian war was a resurrection of the farsi nationalism.A few meaningless words!Bazaar class? Farsi racism? resurrection of thefarsi nationalism? What are these at all? The mullahs in Iran are acontinuation of Arabian fundamentalism with other mask. The real reasonsbehind the iraqi iranian war can be found in Saddam phenomenon rather thanthe illusory resurrection of the farsi nationalism.MM_STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year
Re: Newsday: Iran wanted US to invade?
What was forgotten in all this is that when saddam screamed mercy as he was losing the war in 1984, the Israelis moved in to support Iran (Iran-contra) and the Americans provided intelligence to Iraq. in one good analytical document that came out of Sweden the principal reason for turning against saddam later was the fact that he insisted on stopping the war.. the mullahs were so rigid that Khomeini replied stopping the war is similar to drinking poison. Iraq was never out of war since its inception as a weak and fabricated state in 1921... see M. Tarbush,ali alwardi etc... on the other hand, modern Iran is continuation ofa medieval state. Iraq was at war continuously with Iranduring theshah's regime. in both turkey and Iran a demonisation of the Semitic Arab was carried out as official propaganda at the state level. the Arabs turned out to be a people with many states and the Kurds a people without a state.. in both instances designed and implemented by the British with perfect foresight that instability will rein. and decisively so according to the international country risk guide the Arab near east is the region with the longest conflicts. "Devine, James" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and didn't the US say to Saddam "let's you and him fight," encouraging Iran Iraq to have a war? Jim D.-Original Message- From: Michael Perelman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sun 5/23/2004 11:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Newsday: Iran wanted US to invade?Why would Iran want more US bases next door?On Sun, May 23, 2004 at 04:22:19PM +, Mohammad Maljoo wrote: goes to show that the real reasons behind the rise of the mullahs and the iraqi iranian war was a resurrection of the farsi nationalism. A few meaningless words!“Bazaar class”? “Farsi racism”? “resurrection of the farsi nationalism”? What are these at all? The mullahs in Iran are a continuation of Arabian fundamentalism with other mask. “The real reasons behind…the iraqi iranian war” can be found in Saddam phenomenon rather than the illusory “resurrection of the farsi nationalism”. MM _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail--Michael PerelmanEconomics DepartmentCalifornia State UniversityChico, CA 95929Tel. 530-898-5321E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year
Re: Newsday: Iran wanted US to invade?
the real area of interest of iran is not north in pakistan or south lebanon.. the real one is in the gulf where sunni arab moslems control commerce and rent appropriation by wedding a merchant class to despotic politics. the gulf is where the money is and to extract the money you need some politics. americans in iraq would have to deal with a majority shiite turning power to them underminig a whole history of sunni control over govenment and commerce in a major gulf country. a pro us shiite iraq is a dream come true for commercilaising mullahs and a nightmare for the sauds et al. thus, in the final analysis there will be more shiite merchants buying cheap on the international markets and selling dear to a bigger gulf market with a high purchaing power.. an arrangement that is at rock bottom reminisecnt of ventian trade or trade that does industrialise any of the countires of the region because the merchant holds power over industrial capital in the is post colonial formation. small countries with big armies and capital flight will persist in a pre capitalist form of despotic internal articulation where women don't drive and just get fat watching tv. as to an arabmetaphor similar to goethe's from the koran: 'a word of truth that harbours mal intent'Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why would Iran want more US bases next door?On Sun, May 23, 2004 at 04:22:19PM +, Mohammad Maljoo wrote: goes to show that the real reasons behind the rise of the mullahs and the iraqi iranian war was a resurrection of the farsi nationalism. A few meaningless words!Bazaar class? Farsi racism? resurrection of the farsi nationalism? What are these at all? The mullahs in Iran are a continuation of Arabian fundamentalism with other mask. The real reasons behind the iraqi iranian war can be found in Saddam phenomenon rather than the illusory resurrection of the farsi nationalism. MM _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail--Michael PerelmanEconomics DepartmentCalifornia State UniversityChico, CA 95929Tel. 530-898-5321E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu Do you Yahoo!?Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger
Re: Newsday: Iran wanted US to invade?
That is bazaar class, farsi racism and mini imperialist ambitions, which goes to show that the real reasons behind the rise of the mullahs and the iraqi iranian war was a resurrection of the farsi nationalism.Michael Pollak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [If this is true, I think I'm just going to through in the towel anddecide that covert intelligence is an oxymoron. Is there no country witha spy agency who can divine their own long-term interests? Are they allwilling to shipwreck their country just for the chance to say they madesomething happen? Maybe when another spook says you do good work it's asign you've lost your mind.]http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uschal0522,0,340595.story?coll=ny-top-span-headlinesMay 21, 2004NEW YORK NEWSDAYChalabi aide is suspected Iranian spyBY KNUT ROYCEWASHINGTON BUREAUMay 21, 2004, 7:29 PM EDTWASHINGTON -- The Defense Intelligence Agency has concluded that aU.S.-funded arm of Ahmed Chalabi's Iraqi National Congress has been usedfor years by Iranian intelligence to pass disinformation to the UnitedStates and to collect highly sensitive American secrets, according tointelligence sources."Iranian intelligence has been manipulating the United States throughChalabi by furnishing through his Information Collection Programinformation to provoke the United States into getting rid of SaddamHussein," said an intelligence source Friday who was briefed on theDefense Intelligence Agency's conclusions, which were based on a review ofthousands of internal documents.The Information Collection Program also "kept the Iranians informed aboutwhat we were doing" by passing classified U.S. documents and othersensitive information, he said. The program has received millions ofdollars from the U.S. government over several years.An administration official confirmed that "highly classified informationhad been provided [to the Iranians] through that channel."The Defense Department this week halted payment of $340,000 a month toChalabi's program. Chalabi had long been the favorite of the Pentagon'scivilian leadership. Intelligence sources say Chalabi himself has passedon sensitive U.S. intelligence to the Iranians.Patrick Lang, former director of the intelligence agency's Middle Eastbranch, said he had been told by colleagues in the intelligence communitythat Chalabi's U.S.-funded program to provide information about weapons ofmass destruction and insurgents was effectively an Iranian intelligenceoperation. "They [the Iranians] knew exactly what we were up to," he said.He described it as "one of the most sophisticated and successfulintelligence operations in history.""I'm a spook. I appreciate good work. This was good work," he said.An intelligence agency spokesman would not discuss questions about hisagency's internal conclusions about the alleged Iranian operation. But hesaid some of its information had been helpful to the U.S. "Some of theinformation was great, especially as it pertained to arresting high valuetargets and on force protection issues," he said. "And some of theinformation wasn't so great."At the center of the alleged Iranian intelligence operation, according toadministration officials and intelligence sources, is Aras Karim Habib, a47-year-old Shia Kurd who was named in an arrest warrant issued during araid on Chalabi's home and offices in Baghdad Thursday. He eluded arrest.Karim, who sometimes goes by the last name of Habib, is in charge of theinformation collection program.The intelligence source briefed on the Defense Intelligence Agency'sconclusions said that Karim's "fingerprints are all over it.""There was an ongoing intelligence relationship between Karim and theIranian Intelligence Ministry, all funded by the U.S. government,inadvertently," he said.The Iraqi National Congress has received about $40 million in U.S. fundsover the past four years, including $33 million from the State Departmentand $6 million from the Defense Intelligence Agency.In Baghdad after the war, Karim's operation was run out of the fourthfloor of a secure intelligence headquarters building, while theintelligence agency was on the floor above, according to an Iraqi sourcewho knows Karim well.The links between the INC and U.S. intelligence go back to at least 1992,when Karim was picked by Chalabi to run his security and militaryoperations.Indications that Iran, which fought a bloody war against Iraq during the1980s, was trying to lure the U.S. into action against Saddam Husseinappeared many years before the Bush administration decided in 2001 thatousting Hussein was a national priority.In 1995, for instance, Khidhir Hamza, who had once worked in Iraq'snuclear program and whose claims that Iraq had continued a massive bombprogram in the 1990s are now largely discredited, gave UN nuclearinspectors what appeared to be explosive documents about Iraq's program.Hamza, who fled Iraq in 1994, teamed up with Chalabi after his escape.The documents, which referred to results of experiments on
Re: Newsday: Iran wanted US to invade?
That is bazaar class, farsi racism and mini imperialist ambitions, which goes to show that the real reasons behind the rise of the mullahs and the iraqi iranian war was a resurrection of the farsi nationalism. A few meaningless words!Bazaar class? Farsi racism? resurrection of the farsi nationalism? What are these at all? The mullahs in Iran are a continuation of Arabian fundamentalism with other mask. The real reasons behind the iraqi iranian war can be found in Saddam phenomenon rather than the illusory resurrection of the farsi nationalism. MM _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: Newsday: Iran wanted US to invade?
Why would Iran want more US bases next door? On Sun, May 23, 2004 at 04:22:19PM +, Mohammad Maljoo wrote: That is bazaar class, farsi racism and mini imperialist ambitions, which goes to show that the real reasons behind the rise of the mullahs and the iraqi iranian war was a resurrection of the farsi nationalism. A few meaningless words!Bazaar class? Farsi racism? resurrection of the farsi nationalism? What are these at all? The mullahs in Iran are a continuation of Arabian fundamentalism with other mask. The real reasons behind the iraqi iranian war can be found in Saddam phenomenon rather than the illusory resurrection of the farsi nationalism. MM _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Re: Newsday: Iran wanted US to invade?
and didn't the US say to Saddam let's you and him fight, encouraging Iran Iraq to have a war? Jim D. -Original Message- From: Michael Perelman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sun 5/23/2004 11:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Newsday: Iran wanted US to invade? Why would Iran want more US bases next door? On Sun, May 23, 2004 at 04:22:19PM +, Mohammad Maljoo wrote: That is bazaar class, farsi racism and mini imperialist ambitions, which goes to show that the real reasons behind the rise of the mullahs and the iraqi iranian war was a resurrection of the farsi nationalism. A few meaningless words!Bazaar class? Farsi racism? resurrection of the farsi nationalism? What are these at all? The mullahs in Iran are a continuation of Arabian fundamentalism with other mask. The real reasons behindthe iraqi iranian war can be found in Saddam phenomenon rather than the illusory resurrection of the farsi nationalism. MM _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
Newsday: Iran wanted US to invade?
[If this is true, I think I'm just going to through in the towel and decide that covert intelligence is an oxymoron. Is there no country with a spy agency who can divine their own long-term interests? Are they all willing to shipwreck their country just for the chance to say they made something happen? Maybe when another spook says you do good work it's a sign you've lost your mind.] http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uschal0522,0,340595.story?coll=ny-top-span-headlines May 21, 2004 NEW YORK NEWSDAY Chalabi aide is suspected Iranian spy BY KNUT ROYCE WASHINGTON BUREAU May 21, 2004, 7:29 PM EDT WASHINGTON -- The Defense Intelligence Agency has concluded that a U.S.-funded arm of Ahmed Chalabi's Iraqi National Congress has been used for years by Iranian intelligence to pass disinformation to the United States and to collect highly sensitive American secrets, according to intelligence sources. Iranian intelligence has been manipulating the United States through Chalabi by furnishing through his Information Collection Program information to provoke the United States into getting rid of Saddam Hussein, said an intelligence source Friday who was briefed on the Defense Intelligence Agency's conclusions, which were based on a review of thousands of internal documents. The Information Collection Program also kept the Iranians informed about what we were doing by passing classified U.S. documents and other sensitive information, he said. The program has received millions of dollars from the U.S. government over several years. An administration official confirmed that highly classified information had been provided [to the Iranians] through that channel. The Defense Department this week halted payment of $340,000 a month to Chalabi's program. Chalabi had long been the favorite of the Pentagon's civilian leadership. Intelligence sources say Chalabi himself has passed on sensitive U.S. intelligence to the Iranians. Patrick Lang, former director of the intelligence agency's Middle East branch, said he had been told by colleagues in the intelligence community that Chalabi's U.S.-funded program to provide information about weapons of mass destruction and insurgents was effectively an Iranian intelligence operation. They [the Iranians] knew exactly what we were up to, he said. He described it as one of the most sophisticated and successful intelligence operations in history. I'm a spook. I appreciate good work. This was good work, he said. An intelligence agency spokesman would not discuss questions about his agency's internal conclusions about the alleged Iranian operation. But he said some of its information had been helpful to the U.S. Some of the information was great, especially as it pertained to arresting high value targets and on force protection issues, he said. And some of the information wasn't so great. At the center of the alleged Iranian intelligence operation, according to administration officials and intelligence sources, is Aras Karim Habib, a 47-year-old Shia Kurd who was named in an arrest warrant issued during a raid on Chalabi's home and offices in Baghdad Thursday. He eluded arrest. Karim, who sometimes goes by the last name of Habib, is in charge of the information collection program. The intelligence source briefed on the Defense Intelligence Agency's conclusions said that Karim's fingerprints are all over it. There was an ongoing intelligence relationship between Karim and the Iranian Intelligence Ministry, all funded by the U.S. government, inadvertently, he said. The Iraqi National Congress has received about $40 million in U.S. funds over the past four years, including $33 million from the State Department and $6 million from the Defense Intelligence Agency. In Baghdad after the war, Karim's operation was run out of the fourth floor of a secure intelligence headquarters building, while the intelligence agency was on the floor above, according to an Iraqi source who knows Karim well. The links between the INC and U.S. intelligence go back to at least 1992, when Karim was picked by Chalabi to run his security and military operations. Indications that Iran, which fought a bloody war against Iraq during the 1980s, was trying to lure the U.S. into action against Saddam Hussein appeared many years before the Bush administration decided in 2001 that ousting Hussein was a national priority. In 1995, for instance, Khidhir Hamza, who had once worked in Iraq's nuclear program and whose claims that Iraq had continued a massive bomb program in the 1990s are now largely discredited, gave UN nuclear inspectors what appeared to be explosive documents about Iraq's program. Hamza, who fled Iraq in 1994, teamed up with Chalabi after his escape. The documents, which referred to results of experiments on enriched uranium in the bomb's core, were almost flawless, according to Andrew Cockburn's recent account of the event in the political newsletter CounterPunch. But the
Re: Newsday: Iran wanted US to invade?
The Great Satan doing God's work again! Shane Mage I am part of that force which always does good by attempting to do evil. (Mephistopheles) May 21, 2004 NEW YORK NEWSDAY Chalabi aide is suspected Iranian spy BY KNUT ROYCE WASHINGTON BUREAU May 21, 2004, 7:29 PM EDT WASHINGTON -- The Defense Intelligence Agency has concluded that a U.S.-funded arm of Ahmed Chalabi's Iraqi National Congress has been used for years by Iranian intelligence to pass disinformation to the United States and to collect highly sensitive American secrets, according to intelligence sources. Iranian intelligence has been manipulating the United States through Chalabi by furnishing through his Information Collection Program information to provoke the United States into getting rid of Saddam Hussein, said an intelligence source Friday who was briefed on the Defense Intelligence Agency's conclusions, which were based on a review of thousands of internal documents. The Information Collection Program also kept the Iranians informed about what we were doing by passing classified U.S. documents and other sensitive information, he said. The program has received millions of dollars from the U.S. government over several years. An administration official confirmed that highly classified information had been provided [to the Iranians] through that channel. The Defense Department this week halted payment of $340,000 a month to Chalabi's program. Chalabi had long been the favorite of the Pentagon's civilian leadership. Intelligence sources say Chalabi himself has passed on sensitive U.S. intelligence to the Iranians. Patrick Lang, former director of the intelligence agency's Middle East branch, said he had been told by colleagues in the intelligence community that Chalabi's U.S.-funded program to provide information about weapons of mass destruction and insurgents was effectively an Iranian intelligence operation. They [the Iranians] knew exactly what we were up to, he said. He described it as one of the most sophisticated and successful intelligence operations in history. I'm a spook. I appreciate good work. This was good work, he said. An intelligence agency spokesman would not discuss questions about his agency's internal conclusions about the alleged Iranian operation. But he said some of its information had been helpful to the U.S. Some of the information was great, especially as it pertained to arresting high value targets and on force protection issues, he said. And some of the information wasn't so great. At the center of the alleged Iranian intelligence operation, according to administration officials and intelligence sources, is Aras Karim Habib, a 47-year-old Shia Kurd who was named in an arrest warrant issued during a raid on Chalabi's home and offices in Baghdad Thursday. He eluded arrest. Karim, who sometimes goes by the last name of Habib, is in charge of the information collection program. The intelligence source briefed on the Defense Intelligence Agency's conclusions said that Karim's fingerprints are all over it. There was an ongoing intelligence relationship between Karim and the Iranian Intelligence Ministry, all funded by the U.S. government, inadvertently, he said. The Iraqi National Congress has received about $40 million in U.S. funds over the past four years, including $33 million from the State Department and $6 million from the Defense Intelligence Agency. In Baghdad after the war, Karim's operation was run out of the fourth floor of a secure intelligence headquarters building, while the intelligence agency was on the floor above, according to an Iraqi source who knows Karim well. The links between the INC and U.S. intelligence go back to at least 1992, when Karim was picked by Chalabi to run his security and military operations. Indications that Iran, which fought a bloody war against Iraq during the 1980s, was trying to lure the U.S. into action against Saddam Hussein appeared many years before the Bush administration decided in 2001 that ousting Hussein was a national priority. In 1995, for instance, Khidhir Hamza, who had once worked in Iraq's nuclear program and whose claims that Iraq had continued a massive bomb program in the 1990s are now largely discredited, gave UN nuclear inspectors what appeared to be explosive documents about Iraq's program. Hamza, who fled Iraq in 1994, teamed up with Chalabi after his escape. The documents, which referred to results of experiments on enriched uranium in the bomb's core, were almost flawless, according to Andrew Cockburn's recent account of the event in the political newsletter CounterPunch. But the inspectors were troubled by one minor matter: Some of the techinical descriptions used terms that would only be used by an Iranian. They determined that the original copy had been written in Farsi by an Iranian scientist and then translated into Arabic. And the International Atomic Energy Agency concluded the documents were fraudulent. Copyright © 2004, Newsday, Inc. | Article
