on the money. A little smokestack lightning from the Detroit brother.
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Chris Doss's sources
In a message dated 6/20/2004 12:51:51 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED
Of course. The Chechen conflict has nothing to do with radical Islam. How silly of me.
Once again, in an apparently futile attempt to make people live in the real world:
http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/4546.html Current History October 2000 Through a Distorted Lens: Chechnya and the Western
Melvin, I think you hit the nail on the head.
I sometimes get the feeling that what some people want to see is the dismantling of the Russian Federation into a dozen or so quasi-feudal failed "states" with deeply impoverished populations, which is what would happen in at least the North Caucasus
Chris said:
Anybody saying the war in Chechnya is about goddamn oil would get laughed
out the fucking door in Russia.
I believe you, but just because an idea is not popular it doesn't make it
untrue. I doubt if many Americans believe that the war in Iraq is about
oil and yet that idea is
.
-Original Message-
From: Grant Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 18:59:17 +0800
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Chris Doss's sources
Chris said:
Anybody saying the war in Chechnya is about goddamn oil would get laughed
out the fucking door in Russia.
Grant:
IMO, the real issue in such cases --- and one which is more difficult to
resolve amid the crossfires of both bullets and propaganda --- is the extent
to which the local populations, _at_any_particular_point_in_time_, oppose or
support the imperialists. This often has little or nothing to
I only had a few minutes to glance at this thread. It seems like it is getting close
to nasty again. Please, do not denounce others on the list.
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929
Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
He is 93. Cancer of the intestines.
On Sun, Jun 20, 2004 at 07:43:35PM +0400, Chris Doss wrote:
I hope he's OK.
-Original Message-
From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 06:43:33 -0700
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Chris Doss's sources
Hey, I'm nice as long as people are nice to me. My vituperance is strictly reactive. :)Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I only had a few minutes to glance at this thread. It seems like it is getting closeto nasty again. Please, do not "denounce" others on the list.--Michael
Chris Doss wrote:
Hey, I'm nice as long as people are nice to me. My vituperance is
strictly reactive. :)
I don't mind the vituperation. I would only object to the number of
times you are posting. I counted 9 posts, all on Chechnya, so far today:
3:58am, 4:15am, 5:39am, 6:01am, 6:30am, 6:46am,
But everyone must stop reacting! Everyone.
On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 06:55:44AM -0700, Chris Doss wrote:
Hey, I'm nice as long as people are nice to me. My vituperance is strictly reactive.
:)
Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I only had a few minutes to glance at
this thread. It
Message received! I am now on mellow mode.Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
But everyone must stop reacting! Everyone.On Mon, Jun 21, 2004 at 06:55:44AM -0700, Chris Doss wrote: Hey, I'm nice as long as people are nice to me. My vituperance is strictly reactive. :) Michael Perelman <[EMAIL
I, for one, need much more information on the sources of the conflict. Myrelatively uninformed feeling has me aligning with the Russians again forseveral reasons, first of which is that dissolution of the Soviet Union,Balkanization on the grand scale, is itself and has been accompanied by agiant
Yesterday, Chris Doss told PEN-L that there was ethnic cleansing in
Chechnya, including Jews. Since demagogic charges of anti-Semitism has
surfaced to such an extreme degree in recent years, I was particularly
interested to see if there was hard evidence of this.
So, instead of producing articles
Lou Chris. I am leaving now. Please. Stop getter personal. I need to get to
Pittsburgh to see me father in the hospital. I don't want to have to worry about the
list.
Thanks.
On Sun, Jun 20, 2004 at 09:19:42AM -0400, Louis Proyect wrote:
Yesterday, Chris Doss told PEN-L that there was
Don't worry, Mike, I'll handle it for you. I'm really good at this.
- Original Message -
From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Chris Doss's sources
Lou Chris. I am leaving now. Please. Stop getter
: Sunday, June 20, 2004 6:19 AM
Subject: [PEN-L] Chris Doss's sources
Yesterday, Chris Doss told PEN-L that there was ethnic cleansing in
Chechnya, including Jews. Since demagogic charges of anti-Semitism has
surfaced to such an extreme degree in recent years, I was particularly
interested
sartesian wrote:
I'm sure, with the vast resources at his command, Mr. Proyect will be able
to provide such demonstration.
I thought we already established that the White House and the Kremlin
are past masters at lying.
===
Russia Gave U.S. Intel on Iraq, Putin Says
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS, June 19,
So while Yastrazhembsky's position in the Russian government obviously
speaks to his lack of uninterest, it still must be demonstrated that he
is a liar, distorting fact in the service of his class interest.
--
Behold the use of logic! :)
I hope he's OK.
-Original Message-
From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 06:43:33 -0700
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Chris Doss's sources
Lou Chris. I am leaving now. Please. Stop getter personal. I need to get to
Pittsburgh to see me
Is the Chechen diaspora good enough for you?
Rosbalt
April 24, 2003
Chechens Call on Russians to Return
Leading representatives of the Chechen diaspora in Moscow attended a press
conference recently and then a round-table discussion devoted to the
situation of the Russian-speaking population of
Or the highly respected Russian newspaper Trud?
Russian original:
http://www.infocentre.ru/win/user/index.cfm?page=12date=2000-02-17startrow=1msg_id=6430
17.02.2000 16:00
Newspaper Trud
OUTCASTS IN OWN LAND.
Documentary testimonies of Russian genocide in Maskhadov Ichkeriya
From the
the separatists.
- Original Message -
From: Louis Proyect [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 7:57 AM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Chris Doss's sources
sartesian wrote:
I'm sure, with the vast resources at his command, Mr. Proyect will be
able
to provide
I, for one, need much more information on the sources of the conflict. Myrelatively uninformed feeling has me aligning with the Russians again forseveral reasons, first of which is that dissolution of the Soviet Union,Balkanization on the grand scale, is itself and has been accompanied by agiant
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004, sartesian wrote:
One mo' time:
Looking for that thing called specificity, Mr. Proyect. And that would be
a social specificity, analyzing the material forces at work driving the
contending forces.
The same thing that is driving Putin is driving Bush: control over oil.
: Sunday, June 20, 2004 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Chris Doss's sources
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004, sartesian wrote:
One mo' time:
Looking for that thing called specificity, Mr. Proyect. And that would
be
a social specificity, analyzing the material forces at work driving the
contending
In a message dated 6/20/2004 12:51:51 PM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Sun,
20 Jun 2004, sartesian wrote: One mo' time:
Looking for that thing called specificity, Mr. Proyect. And that
would be a social specificity, analyzing the material forces at work
Right on the money. A little smokestack lightning from the Detroit
brother.
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 12:03
PM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Chris Doss's
"sources"
In a message dated 6/
This thing about oil has reach the level of the absurd
in my opinion. Putin represents bourgeois property in Russia but not as
an abstraction. He also represents distinct national interest and geopolitical
considerations . . .
Comment
What is actually meant is not a denial of the
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