Carrol Cox wrote:
the strongest argument against Chomsky's claim
that the u.s. is incomparably more civilized today than 40 years ago.
It just *can't* be true, can it? Everything is just awful, and
getting worse by the day. Never acknowledge any progress, which can
only come with The Revolution, which we can do little to promote now,
but which can only come with some mysterious dispensation. And, by
god, don't cite the full context of Chomsky's remark.
Doug
The closing of my interview with Noam Chomsky, broadcast February
10, 2002. I think he's wrong about intellectuals - take a look at
the books and presses that thrive now that didn't in the early
1960s. But I don't want to quibble...
[starts at 1:14:22]
NC: There's plenty of dissent and opposition and concern. Plenty of
grounds for optimism for people who are trying to organize and work.
It's certainly far easier now than 40 years ago when Kennedy was
launched his attack on South Vietnam. Then you couldn't do a thing.
In the 1980s, the situation was better; you could organize for the
wars against Nicaragua, the wars against El Salvador and Guatemala.
But it wasn't that easy. Now there's considerably more opportunity,
though the war drums are beating and people are scared.
DH: You've said the country is more civilized than it was 40 years
ago. What do you mean by that?
NC: Incomparably more civilized. Things we take for granted now
didn't exist 40 years ago. So for example, take say aggression. When
Kennedy announced publicly that the U.S. was bombing South Vietnam
in 1962, began using chemical weapons to destroy food crops, began
programs to drive millions people into what were essentially
concentration camps, there was no protest. We didn't talk about it.
In the 1960s, there was barely a feminist movement. No environmental
movement. In the 1960s, there wasn't yet, after hundreds of years,
even the beginning of recognition of the original sin, what happened
to the millions of people used to live here. That's all changed. It
changed not so much in the 60s, but in the 70s, 80s, and since.
That's when the major popular movements developed. They haven't
carried out institutional change, but they've changed the culture
and the moral level of the society very significantly. Those are
real achievements. They make things very different than they were in
the past. Among the intellectuals, I don't think anything's changed,
but it rarely does. But among the general population, it's correct
to say that the level of civilization is much higher things that
would have seemed perfectly appropriate then are outlandish now.
DH: That's a good note to end on. Thank you, Noam Chomsky.
---
Download it yourself and listen:
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http://shout.lbo-talk.org/lbo/RadioArchive/2002/02_10_17_16.mp3
Stream (but you'll have to wait an hour and a quarter):
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