Somepossible sourcesof original
accumulation within a society based on the capitalist mode of production (I note
explicitly this is not intended asa completelist):
1) setting up alegal or illegalnew
business venture or entrepreneurial activityfrom scratch ("business
start-ups") with loan
Do you want me to explain to you how to do it ?
Jurriaan
- Original Message -
From: andie nachgeborenen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 9:24 PM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Regulation, state, economy
I don't see how this has anything to do with whether
Yes please! Not the seeing part but how to do a stateless capitalism,
whatever that means.
Sabri
Do you want me to explain to you how to do it?
Jurriaan
I don't see how this has anything to do with whether
stateless capitalism is possible. jks
of stateless capitalism is conducive to the advancement of
socialism or at any rate an egalitarian society.
All the best,
Jurriaan
- Original Message -
From: Sabri Oncu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 2:02 AM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Regulation, state
First you would have to persuade me that an analysis
of stateless capitalism is conducive to the advancement
of socialism or at any rate an egalitarian society.
All the best,
Jurriaan
As far as the eye can see, there is no stateless capitalism in
existence, so I think it is pointless to
I of course take Marx over Mr. Mandel any day on every question of political economy.
"But before doing so, we might ask, how does this strange phenomenon arise, that we find on the market a set of buyers, possessed of land, machinery, raw material, and the means of subsistence, all of them,
Hi Ian,
But didn't they offload these costs [create a beneficial set of
externalities-for them] precisely because using their own security became
a drain on their cash? Armies/Navies as the vanguard of socialism due to
economies of scale? This was Frederic Lane's thesis in Profits from
Doug argues capitalism is inconceivable
without state
regulation, I am saying it is conceivable, it is
happening, and it happened
already in history. If you think that the Dutch East
India Company was
simply a mercantile outfit you are wrong, because
they established factories
and
Jurriaan Bendien wrote:
Doug argues capitalism is inconceivable without state
regulation, I am saying it is conceivable, it is happening, and it happened
already in history. If you think that the Dutch East India Company was
simply a mercantile outfit you are wrong, because they established
- Original Message -
From: andie nachgeborenen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 5:41 PM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Regulation, state, economy
Doug argues capitalism is inconceivable
without state
regulation, I am saying it is conceivable
Justin wrote:
You confuse primitive accumulation -- the
naked taking by force of labor and raw materials --
with its product in the world system, capital.
You must think I am thick or something ! I am not confusing this at all, it
is 95 percent of Marxists who confuse it, by identifying
Jurriaan Bendien wrote:
Doug argues capitalism is inconceivable without state
regulation, I am saying it is conceivable, it is happening,
and it happened
already in history. If you think that the Dutch East India
Company was
simply a mercantile outfit you are wrong, because they
In a message dated 8/28/03 4:35:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Justin wrote:
You confuse primitive accumulation -- the
naked taking by force of labor and raw materials --
with its product in the world system, capital.
You must think I am thick or something ! I am not
Okay then, I will post my original letter to Paul (22 August
2003):
Hi Paul,How's
things ? I was reading some more discussion about primitiveaccumulation on
OPE list, and I have a question. When I read Marx's Capitalin German, I
never found any place in which he uses the term
Hi Jim,
The LORD is my shepherd, isn't that what they say ? Check out Estelle Reyna.
also, the Dutch East India Company and similar organizations _merged_ the
functions of a privately-owned enterprise with those of a state (a monopoly
of force within the geographical area). So the DEIC didn't
Title: Re: Regulation, state, economy
Jurriaan wrote:
...When I
read Marx's Capital
in German, I
never found any place in which he uses the term primitive
accumulation, rather, he uses the term ursprungliche
Akkumulation, that
is to say,
the initial or original accumulation.
Do you have any
I don't see how this has anything to do with whether
stateless capitalism is possible. jks
--- Shane Mage [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jurriaan wrote:
...When I read Marx's Capital
in German, I never found any place in which he uses
the term primitive
accumulation, rather, he uses the term
In a message dated 8/28/03 10:08:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hi Paul,
How's things ? I was reading some more discussion about primitive
accumulation on OPE list, and I have a question. When I read Marx's Capital
in German, I never found any place in which he uses the
In a message dated 8/28/03 12:25:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I don't see how this has anything to do with whether
stateless capitalism is possible. jks
A stateless property relations is not possible and this includes public property. There is a real question as to
discussed by Marx is another issue.
Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine
-Original Message-
From: Jurriaan Bendien [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 1:26 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Regulation, state, economy
Thanks
In a message dated 8/28/03 1:26:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The suggestion of Marxists is that first you have primitive accumulation and then you have capitalism and after that the primitive accumulation is finished; and this is just nonsense, no serious analyst
Doug Henwood wrote:
An unregulated capitalist economy would quickly
destroy itself. Capital needs the state to discipline and rescue it.
The idea of bourgeois regulation is to preserve the system, not
transform it, which was what ME were all about.
This is basically correct in practice I think,
- Original Message -
From: Jurriaan Bendien [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Doug Henwood wrote:
An unregulated capitalist economy would quickly
destroy itself. Capital needs the state to discipline and rescue it.
The idea of bourgeois regulation is to preserve the system, not
transform it,
Jurriaan Bendien wrote:
This is basically correct in practice I think, but - if you keep
deregulating and privatising in the neo-liberal fashion, then is the state
ultimately able to regulate anything much, other than through military and
security forces ? Many corporations today already have
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