Reply to Louis Proyect on revolutionary socialism

2004-03-17 Thread Peter Hollings
Here's the article that I promised to post on the World Social Forum. It appeared on ZNET's activism list. Warning: it's long, but, I think, worthwhile. Peter Hollings SOME REFLECTIONS ON THE GLOBAL JUSTICE MOVEMENT (And an eye-witness account of the World Social Forum) Yo comrades Hi

Re: Reply to Louis Proyect on revolutionary socialism

2004-03-17 Thread Michael Perelman
This article is very long for the list. It is better to post a small part and a URL if possible. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu

Re: Reply to Louis Proyect on revolutionary socialism

2004-03-17 Thread Frederick Emrich, Editor, info-commons.org
] - Original Message - From: Michael Perelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 11:04 AM Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Reply to Louis Proyect on revolutionary socialism This article is very long for the list. It is better to post a small part and a URL if possible

Re: Reply to Louis Proyect on revolutionary socialism

2004-03-17 Thread Peter Hollings
will need your address, too.) Peter Hollings -Original Message- From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frederick Emrich, Editor, info-commons.org Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Reply to Louis Proyect on revolutionary socialism

Reply to Louis Proyect on revolutionary socialism

2004-03-16 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
Louis wrote: B-52's raining Volkswagen size bombs on peasant villages recruited me to socialism, not elegant descriptions of the benefits of a future world. I do not see how the one need exclude the other, and it really avoids the question of what would recruit young people to socialism these

Re: Reply to Louis Proyect on revolutionary socialism

2004-03-16 Thread Louis Proyect
Jurriaan wrote: The very term recruiting is problematic, because this suggests that people are being conscripted into a military service under a Marx commander, a Marxist boss. And this is one of the factors which gave rise to autonomism in the first place. This is a very good point. The appeal of

Re: Reply to Louis Proyect on revolutionary socialism - rejoinder

2004-03-16 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
This is a very good point. The appeal of autonomism is that you can call yourself a revolutionary without actually forming organizations and taking responsibility for anything. This was also the appeal of the New Left in the 1960s. But, with due respect, even there I think you are mistaken.

Re: Reply to Louis Proyect on revolutionary socialism

2004-03-16 Thread Peter Hollings
] Reply to Louis Proyect on revolutionary socialism Louis wrote: B-52's raining Volkswagen size bombs on peasant villages recruited me to socialism, not elegant descriptions of the benefits of a future world. I do not see how the one need exclude the other, and it really avoids the question of what

Re: Reply to Louis Proyect on revolutionary socialism

2004-03-16 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 3/16/2004 10:15:20 AM Central Standard Time, lnp3 @PANIX.COM writes: Jurriaan wrote: The very term recruiting is problematic, because this suggests that people are being conscripted into a military service under a Marx commander, a Marxist boss. And this is one of the factors

Re: Reply to Louis Proyect on revolutionary socialism

2004-03-16 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
There are going to be bosses. Leadership or being boss means you have accepted - one way or another, responsibility to do something. Okay, so now there are going to be bosses. The question raised however is: how do they become bosses, by what process ? How do they establish their leadership ?

Re: Reply to Louis Proyect on revolutionary socialism

2004-03-16 Thread Jurriaan Bendien
Peter, Thanks for your comment, which is encouraging. I've never really had any despair about political prospects or the lack of them. I don't care about that, it's none of my concern. For most of the 1980s and some years in the 1990s I was involved in various groups and campaigns on and off. But

Re: Reply to Louis Proyect on revolutionary socialism

2004-03-16 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 3/16/2004 4:35:06 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Okay, so now there are going to be bosses. The question raised however is:how do they become bosses, by what process? How do they establish theirleadership ?To explicate the problem simply, let's just take

Re: Reply to Louis Proyect on revolutionary socialism

2004-03-16 Thread Michael Perelman
I think that this thread has gone on enough. -- Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu