absolute general law of capitalist accumulation/dialectics and logic
by Devine, James -clip- But for Marx, a contradiction was an empirical (real, practical) phenomenon, unlike the contradiction in logic. A social organization -- such as capitalism -- was a whole or totality, but in its structure, there were different parts that didn't work together well. (Kinda like putting an English-unit part in a car that has an engine that was specified built using metric units, as my father did once. Or like when NASA used metric and the private contractor used the English system, so the Mars probe crashed.) In Marx's case, the contradictions of capitalism were problems within the system such as class antagonism and competition amongst the capitalists, summarized by Engels as the contradiction between socialized production (the whole) and individualized appropriation (the parts). CB: Wouldn't you say that also for Marx, contradictions in the capitalist system are the motives for it to change into a different system, i.e. socialism ? Contradiction as the basis for change is a dialectical concept. Marx deals with dialectical, not formal logical contradictions. The contradictions dealt with in the absolute general law of capitalist accumulation are the poverty and unemployment that inherently accompany technological progress under capitalist relations of production, a contradiction of regress and progress, with regress being absolute and progress relative.
Re: absolute general law of capitalist accumulation/dialectics and logic
Charles B: Wouldn't you say that also for Marx, contradictions in the capitalist system are the motives for it to change into a different system, i.e. socialism ? Contradiction as the basis for change is a dialectical concept. Marx deals with dialectical, not formal logical contradictions. I don't know about motives, but obviously for Marx, the contradictions in capitalism create possibilities for the emergence of socialism. The contradictions dealt with in the absolute general law of capitalist accumulation are the poverty and unemployment that inherently accompany technological progress under capitalist relations of production, a contradiction of regress and progress, with regress being absolute and progress relative. I'd say that poverty and unemployment are _results_ of the contradiction. jim devine
absolute general law of capitalist accumulation/dialectics and logic
by Devine, James I don't know about motives, but obviously for Marx, the contradictions in capitalism create possibilities for the emergence of socialism. CB: OK. Instead of motives , causes for it to change. The dialectical idea is that everything changes, and the change is based on the contradictions within the thing changing, and what it changes to is determined by the nature of those contradictions, I think. The contradiction of class divided society causes society to move toward classless society. This is a main preservation of Hegelian dialectics in Marx's sublation of Hegel. ^^ The contradictions dealt with in the absolute general law of capitalist accumulation are the poverty and unemployment that inherently accompany technological progress under capitalist relations of production, a contradiction of regress and progress, with regress being absolute and progress relative. I'd say that poverty and unemployment are _results_ of the contradiction. ^^ CB: A result of which contradiction ?
Re: absolute general law of capitalist accumulation/dialectics and logic
In a message dated 7/21/2004 11:36:26 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The contradictions dealt with in the absolute general law of capitalist accumulation are the poverty and unemployment that inherently accompany technological progress under capitalist relations of production, a contradiction of regress and progress, with regress being "absolute" and progress relative. Reply: I'd say that poverty and unemployment are results of the contradiction. ^^ CB: A result of which contradiction? Comment Private appropriation of the products of social production as fundamentality . . . or private appropriation in contradiction with the social character of production. This private appropriation is a form of property relations that imparts a distinct circuit . . . mode of operation to continuous cycles of reproduction . . . how labor is deployed in a given branch of industry and on what basis. The bottom line basis of deployment is based on what is profitable to the bourgeois property relations as individual owners or an institutional relations based on private ownership of the productive forces. A multiplicity of other contradictory factors flow from the property relations within this form of social production. Other contradictions flow from the fact of human beings engaging production no matter what the property relations. Melvin P.
Re: absolute general law of capitalist accumulation/dialectics and logic
Charles:The contradictions dealt with in the absolute general law of capitalist accumulation are the poverty and unemployment that inherently accompany technological progress under capitalist relations of production, a contradiction of regress and progress, with regress being absolute and progress relative. me: I'd say that poverty and unemployment are _results_ of the contradiction. ^^ CB: A result of which contradiction ? -- the class contradiction. Capitalist class domination encourages the existence of unemployment, for example, to motivate people to do alienated labor to accept exploitation. But under certain circumstances, e.g., Nazi Germany, there isn't much unemployment at all. Brute force replaces it. jd
Re: absolute general law of capitalist accumulation/dialectics and logic
Dear Devine / To relate each contradiction with its results is to return to an explanation established in causality. In fact, it will lead to the abandonment of the totality notion./ Mário - Original Message - From: Devine, James [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 2:31 PM Subject: Re: absolute general law of capitalist accumulation/dialectics and logic Charles:The contradictions dealt with in the absolute general law of capitalist accumulation are the poverty and unemployment that inherently accompany technological progress under capitalist relations of production, a contradiction of regress and progress, with regress being absolute and progress relative. me: I'd say that poverty and unemployment are _results_ of the contradiction. ^^ CB: A result of which contradiction ? -- the class contradiction. Capitalist class domination encourages the existence of unemployment, for example, to motivate people to do alienated labor to accept exploitation. But under certain circumstances, e.g., Nazi Germany, there isn't much unemployment at all. Brute force replaces it. jd
Re: absolute general law of capitalist accumulation/dialectics and logic
I'm talking about what Althusserians call structural causation. In any event, the dialectical conception doesn't deny the role of causation as much as positing two-way causation in many cases (B affects W, while W affects B) and playing down the role of exogenous events in the social-historical process. Jim Devine [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine -Original Message- From: PEN-L list [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mario José de Lima Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 10:45 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [PEN-L] absolute general law of capitalist accumulation/dialectics and logic Dear Devine / To relate each contradiction with its results is to return to an explanation established in causality. In fact, it will lead to the abandonment of the totality notion./ Mário - Original Message - From: Devine, James [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 2:31 PM Subject: Re: absolute general law of capitalist accumulation/dialectics and logic Charles:The contradictions dealt with in the absolute general law of capitalist accumulation are the poverty and unemployment that inherently accompany technological progress under capitalist relations of production, a contradiction of regress and progress, with regress being absolute and progress relative. me: I'd say that poverty and unemployment are _results_ of the contradiction. ^^ CB: A result of which contradiction ? -- the class contradiction. Capitalist class domination encourages the existence of unemployment, for example, to motivate people to do alienated labor to accept exploitation. But under certain circumstances, e.g., Nazi Germany, there isn't much unemployment at all. Brute force replaces it. jd
