Re: Test::Inline is now Alias'

2005-03-17 Thread Adam Kennedy
I should mention that in it's currently form it's fairly enterprisey (a bit of dependency bloat, and lacking in tutorial'esk stuff). I'll try to post an alpha shortly, and if anyone would like to help finish it off (adding back some legacy features, playing with it to provide feedback) I'd be a

Re: Test::Inline is now Alias'

2005-03-18 Thread Adam Kennedy
Test::Inline 2.00_01 has been uploaded to CPAN. Rough Status - API documentation should be quite thorough - User/Tutorial stuff is insufficient - Adding files/dir is not as easy as it should be - No support for =for - As a standalone module, it's a bit too class-centric, needs to be a bit more fil

Re: what namespace for (future|new) module ?

2005-03-25 Thread Adam Kennedy
You've seen "ab" right? Was written for benchmarking Apache? OK, you can only throw the one page at it I think, but I find it very useful for finding out the basic page overhead and stability under parellel load. Adam K CÃdric Bouvier wrote: Hello there. I once had to organize the stress testing

Re: Why a scoreboard?

2005-04-07 Thread Adam Kennedy
Hear hear. I'd rather see better-kwalitee kwalitee tests :) Once the number and value of the kwalitee tests gets higher, it should be expected that people are almost never going to score perfect. Adam K Johan Vromans wrote: Michael G Schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Has a README... check B

Re: Why a scoreboard?

2005-04-07 Thread Adam Kennedy
Finally, the scoreboard does have a purpose. Part of the original idea of CPANTS was to provide an automated checklist for a good distribution. Has a README... check Declares a $VERSION... check Well behaved tarball... no And as far as I can tell, got sidetracked a

Re: Kwalitee and has_test_*

2005-04-07 Thread Adam Kennedy
David Cantrell wrote: Thomas Klausner wrote: I cannot check POD coverage because Pod::Coverage executes the code. No it doesn't. That said, if you don't want to run the code you're testing, you are, errm, limiting yourself rather badly. Do YOU want to run all of CPAN? I certainly don't. Bulk te

Re: Kwalitee and has_test_*

2005-04-07 Thread Adam Kennedy
Adding a kwalitee check for a test that runs Devel::Cover by default might on the surface appear to meet this goal, but I hope people recognize it as a bad idea. Why, then, is suggesting that people ship tests for POD errors and coverage a good idea? Although I've now added the automated inclusion

Re: TestSimple/More/Builder in JavaScript

2005-04-16 Thread Adam Kennedy
David Wheeler wrote: On Apr 7, 2005, at 11:32 AM, Christopher H. Laco wrote: OK, now whos gonna build JPANTS? :-) JSPANTS, you mean? I think we need a CJSPAN, first. Alias? Yes well... I'm getting there slowly. JavaScript::Librarian + Algorithm::Dependency + YAML ought to be enough to get some b

Re: ANN: JavaScript TestSimple 0.02

2005-04-16 Thread Adam Kennedy
* Decide where to send test output, and where to allow other output to be sent. Test::Builder clones STDERR and STDOUT for this purpose. We'll probably have to do it by overriding C, but it'd be good to allow users to define alternate outputs (tests may not always run in a browser, eh?). Maybe

Re: Kwalitee and has_test_*

2005-04-16 Thread Adam Kennedy
Christopher H. Laco wrote: Tony Bowden wrote: On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 12:32:31PM -0400, Christopher H. Laco wrote: CPANTS can't check that for me, as I don't ship those tests. They're part of my development environment, not part of my release tree. That is true. But if you don't ship them, how do

Re: Kwalitee and has_test_*

2005-04-16 Thread Adam Kennedy
Michael Graham wrote: Another good reason to ship all of your development tests with code is that it makes it easer for users to submit patches with tests. Or to fork your code and retain all your development tools and methods. Perl::MinimumVersion, which doesn't exist yet, could check that the v

Re: ANN: JavaScript TestSimple 0.02

2005-04-20 Thread Adam Kennedy
David Wheeler wrote: On Apr 16, 2005, at 3:00 PM, Adam Kennedy wrote: It's going to totally depend on what you want to wrap around it... Do you want the human interacty mode? Or the machine county mode. "machine county mode"? Just that, I think. Forget the document object for a

Re: Module and package version numbering

2005-04-20 Thread Adam Kennedy
What I'm moving towards is what SVK does. It has an SVK::Version module which simply defines $SVK::VERSION. Then in other modules you can write: use SVK::Version; our $VERSION = $SVK::VERSION; That way it will be picked up by most $VERSION scanners. See my post further up about syncron

Re: Module and package version numbering

2005-04-20 Thread Adam Kennedy
> I've yet to read anything /really/ convincing for either side - so I'd do whatever you're comfortable with myself. In my case I tend to use synchronised version numbers. For big APIs (20+ classes) I often use Class::Autouse to recursively load them. If two subsequent versions of the dist chang

Re: Module and package version numbering

2005-04-20 Thread Adam Kennedy
David Cantrell wrote: Adrian Howard wrote: On 18 Apr 2005, at 17:03, David Cantrell wrote: Number::Phone::UK::Data - no version, this is where the .0004 comes from though. It has no version number because the entire file is generated from a *real

Re: Module suggestion

2005-05-26 Thread Adam Kennedy
Have you had a look at CGI::Capture? That may do some things you can abuse to get what you want. Adam K Vsevolod Ilyushchenko wrote: Hi, I'd like to suggest a module that I came up with to test CGI file uploading logic. I have not found anything else like it. If anyone has any thoughts on

Test::Object

2005-05-31 Thread Adam Kennedy
Just a quick heads up and request for comments on a testing module I'm putting together. Test::Object See search.cpan.org once the initial POD-only upload is done, but in short I want a way to be able to define tests or groups of tests that ANY object of a particular class should pass, and th

Test::Inline 2.001 ... and 2.002

2005-06-10 Thread Adam Kennedy
Hiya folks Well after 2 years and 1 month, it's finally as "done" as it's going to be. I hereby announce the release of Test::Inline 2. It would have happened sooner, but I made the foolish assumption that Test::Inline 1 actually used the Test::Inline namespace. After discovering that pod2te

Re: 5.004_xx in the wild?

2005-07-04 Thread Adam Kennedy
Michael G Schwern wrote: I'm going through some work to restore Test::More and Test::Harness to work on 5.4.5, minor stuff really, and I'm wondering if its worth the trouble. Has anyone seen 5.004_xx in the wild? And if so, were people actively developing using it or was it just there to run so

Re: 5.004_xx in the wild?

2005-07-05 Thread Adam Kennedy
I've just been through the should-I-shouldn't-I-support-5.4 with my (painfully slow) rewrite of Compress::Zlib. In the end I included limited support for 5.004 because I could, plus I have no feel for how much pain I would cause folk if I didn't. If anyone cares about this enough to do somethin

Re: 5.004_xx in the wild?

2005-07-05 Thread Adam Kennedy
As someone whose production code is currently required to run under 5.5.3, I'm very grateful to module authors whose code still runs under that version at least. A number of modules which don't run under 5.5.3 do with simple changes, primarily changing "our" to "use vars" and getting rid of x.y.z

Re: AnnoCPAN and a wiki POD idea

2005-07-09 Thread Adam Kennedy
Mark Stosberg wrote: If you haven't see AnnoCPAN, it's a new way to share comments on Perl POD: But not with the actual AUTHOR of the module apparently. From what I can tell, this does nothing at all to help the author of the modules. There's no way to get a listing of the annotations for a

Re: AnnoCPAN and a wiki POD idea

2005-07-09 Thread Adam Kennedy
Mark Stosberg wrote: If you haven't see AnnoCPAN, it's a new way to share comments on Perl POD: Example: http://www.annocpan.org/dist/Net-ICal-0.15/lib/Net/ICal.pm I have an idea about taking it a step further-- making it easier to close the loop with the author to integrate updates. CPAN d

Re: AnnoCPAN and a wiki POD idea

2005-07-10 Thread Adam Kennedy
PS. An AnnoCPAN tip: Notice that if you are an author, you can subscribe to all comments on your modules: http://www.annocpan.org/~MARKSTOS/recent.rss I don't _want_ to subscribe to my feed. RSS would be just another distration in my life. What I'd just like, every 3 months or so when I've go

Re: AnnoCPAN and a wiki POD idea

2005-07-10 Thread Adam Kennedy
Adrian Howard wrote: On 8 Jul 2005, at 20:08, Adam Kennedy wrote: [snip] There's no way to get a listing of the annotations for a given author id, or even for a given dist. So I'm reduced to manually looking through a thousand odd web pages to find potential changes or impro

Re: AnnoCPAN and a wiki POD idea

2005-07-10 Thread Adam Kennedy
Adrian Howard wrote: On 8 Jul 2005, at 20:08, Adam Kennedy wrote: [snip] There's no way to get a listing of the annotations for a given author id, or even for a given dist. So I'm reduced to manually looking through a thousand odd web pages to find potential changes or impro

Re: Self-testing kwalitee

2005-07-11 Thread Adam Kennedy
Nik Clayton wrote: Having been a little more prolific on the module front recently I'm interesting in making sure that my own modules pass the kwalitee tests. Preferably before I put them on CPAN. But poking through qa.perl.org I can't find anywhere that these tests are actually rigorously d

Re: Self-testing kwalitee

2005-07-11 Thread Adam Kennedy
Note: The last kwalitee test, the one related to Devel::Cover, is considered dangerous by a non-trivial percentage of the community, and there's been a lot of debate on whether it should be removed. Sorry, I should have said Pod::Test::Coverage. Regardless, it executes code. I wonder how it de

Re: Self-testing kwalitee

2005-07-11 Thread Adam Kennedy
Ricardo SIGNES wrote: * Adam Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-07-11T10:10:31] Note: The last kwalitee test, the one related to Devel::Cover, is considered dangerous by a non-trivial percentage of the community, and there's been a lot of debate on whether it should be removed.

Re: False Positives from Automated Testing at testers.cpan.org

2005-07-20 Thread Adam Kennedy
Michael G Schwern wrote: On Tue, Jul 19, 2005 at 10:49:12PM -0400, James E Keenan wrote: The inference I drew was that the four false positives I received for v0.35 came from automated testing in an environment where IO::Capture was already installed, so that the test script did not need to fi

Re: False Positives from Automated Testing at testers.cpan.org

2005-07-20 Thread Adam Kennedy
ious... Adam K Michael G Schwern wrote: On Wed, Jul 20, 2005 at 05:21:19PM +1000, Adam Kennedy wrote: The image-based platforms would be able to implement a fresh from-the-base-install install of each module. This would also greatly help to focus attention on modules that many many others re

Re: Modules::Starter question

2005-08-17 Thread Adam Kennedy
Robert wrote: I am creating my first module (finally) and I was told a while ago to use Module::Starter. Which I did. I am fine there. When I look at the code generated I see that all the POD stuff is inline while I prefer to see POD stuff at the end. Is the inline POD the current preferred way?

Re: Adding more kwalitee tests

2005-09-05 Thread Adam Kennedy
Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni wrote: Adam Kennedy wrote: has_perl_dependency: In the META.yml (assuming it exists) there is a dependency on the version of perl required to install the dist. Problem is that the version said to be required is often bogus. For example, the distributions created

Re: Adding more kwalitee tests

2005-09-05 Thread Adam Kennedy
e::Install; name ( 'Class-Autouse' ); abstract ( 'Run-time class loading on first method call' ); author( 'Adam Kennedy<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>' ); version_from ( 'lib/Class/Autouse.pm' ); license

Re: Adding more kwalitee tests

2005-09-05 Thread Adam Kennedy
The first demo of this I'm hoping to do is a use of Perl::MinimumVersion to find cases where a module is listed as working with (for example) Perl 5.005, but the module syntax shows that it needs 5.006. (and thus the version dependency is wrong). I later plan to expand this to include cases w

Re: Adding more kwalitee tests

2005-09-06 Thread Adam Kennedy
Apart from a user wanting to know which version of perl a module works with, it's a general "quality" (not kwalitee;-) principle to first specify, then test that the specification is met. So I would say that specifying which versions of perl your module is meant to work with should be done before

Re: Why are we adding more kwalitee tests?

2005-09-06 Thread Adam Kennedy
Andy Lester wrote: Why are we worrying about these automated kwalitee tests? What will happen once we find that DBIx::Wango has only passed 7 of these 23 items on the checklist? I thought the same thing, until kwalitee turned competative. Now we have a situation in which a large number

Re: kwalitee: drop Acme?

2005-09-09 Thread Adam Kennedy
David Cantrell wrote: Tels wrote: If I were to run CPANTS, I would drop that module like a hot potato at a summer campfire. Oh, and reduce everyone's K rating involved in the little prank by one :) I thought the whole point of CPANTS was to be useful to authors, not useful to the CPANTS

Re: kwalitee: drop Acme?

2005-09-10 Thread Adam Kennedy
Chromatic wrote: On Fri, 2005-09-09 at 22:28 +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote: For search results quite the opposite. I'd really like if if the default way people got search results back for CPAN modules at least attempted to order at some level based on citations. (ie number of pre-requisites)

Re: Testing module madness

2005-09-11 Thread Adam Kennedy
I've found that by using Module::Install, I can often just bundle those small miscellaneous testing modules, and occasionally a few of their dependencies. And for something simple as "the tests don't generate warnings", I would think "module has excessive dependencies" is a bug in Test::Deep,

Re: Testing module madness

2005-09-11 Thread Adam Kennedy
If you get hit by a truck and someone updates Test::Moose to take care of a bug, who will update your bundled version? Simple. Because I don't bundle it by hand, Module::Install does it. Bundling things by hand would be WAY too much work. The next time someone else rolls the build, it autom

Re: Testing module madness

2005-09-12 Thread Adam Kennedy
Chromatic wrote: On Mon, 2005-09-12 at 09:36 +1000, Adam Kennedy wrote: If you do realize, but it takes you 3 days to update once mainline was fixed, and it takes mainline 3 days to update once Joe Random's patch was submitted, why should new users from these 3 days get a buggy, out

Re: Testing module madness

2005-09-12 Thread Adam Kennedy
Andy Lester wrote: On Sep 11, 2005, at 7:25 PM, chromatic wrote: I don't feel as confident as you do that if the tests all passed on your machine that they'll automatically pass everywhere. THIS is my biggest point. It's not about the quality of the code so much as making sure the code

Re: Testing module madness

2005-09-12 Thread Adam Kennedy
But if someone else helps you install the machine, then you don't actually need the level, if they bring theirs and use it for the install. I think that the build_requires/test_requires distinction *is* important, if it can be made, as it eases the lives of anyone wishing to package up modules,

New kwalitee test, has_changes

2005-09-15 Thread Adam Kennedy
Rather than do any additional exploding, I'd like to propose the additional kwalitee test "has_changes". I've noticed that a percentage (5-10%) of dists don't have a changes file, so it can be hard to know whether it's worth upgrading, or more importantly which version to add dependencies for.

Re: New kwalitee test, has_changes

2005-09-16 Thread Adam Kennedy
H.Merijn Brand wrote: On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 11:52:00 +1000, Adam Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Rather than do any additional exploding, I'd like to propose the additional kwalitee test "has_changes". I've noticed that a percentage (5-10%) of dists don't ha

pod2test

2005-09-17 Thread Adam Kennedy
It's been a while since I released Test::Inline 2. And as far as I was aware, everything was just fine. Except that it wasn't... apparently a whole bunch of people and some quite significant projects have had issues with the fact that the new version doesn't have a pod2test script (that they w

Re: CPANTS new

2005-09-21 Thread Adam Kennedy
ope of CPANTS is bound to shake out bugs in PPI, which will make Adam Kennedy happy. (FSDO happy). David Been there done that. Go check out PPI::Tinderbox. It was... well... fun (FSDO fun) :) But I'm always happy to get more bug reports. Adam K

Re: New kwalitee test, has_changes

2005-09-23 Thread Adam Kennedy
Michael Graham wrote: As I was downloading the newest version of Devel::Cover this morning, I pondered on the concept of 1 Kwalitee point for coverage >= 80%, and another for 100%, and how absolutely impossible it would be to set out to establish these points for all the modules on CPAN. But it w

Re: New kwalitee test, has_changes

2005-09-25 Thread Adam Kennedy
It's impossible. Quite. I believe the only way is for the author to do the Devel::Cover dance and forward the results. It also distributes the workload out to where it should be done. Since it's an optional step that has no direct bearing on the functionality of the module, it's a sign tha

Re: New kwalitee test, has_changes

2005-09-25 Thread Adam Kennedy
Paul Johnson wrote: On Fri, Sep 23, 2005 at 12:06:43PM +0200, Thomas Klausner wrote: Hi! On Fri, Sep 23, 2005 at 12:54:42PM +1000, Adam Kennedy wrote: Collecting any sort of coverage data is a complete bitch. Let me just say right now that doing it across _all_ of CPAN is flat out

Re: Graphing Perl Packages, updated

2005-09-25 Thread Adam Kennedy
Michael G Schwern wrote: On Fri, Sep 23, 2005 at 05:38:32PM +0200, Tels wrote: If you have any ideas how to make this even more usefull, please speak now. I will have limited email reading/writing capabilities the next two weeks, but I *will* respond to all emails/critics/praises, even though i

Re: Kwalitee and Perl::Critic

2005-10-05 Thread Adam Kennedy
Unless someone wants to start helping implement this right now, I'd ask that you not spend too much time on anything that relates to Kwalitee/PPI integration (which includes Perl::Critic). There's a couple of steps that have to be taken in order to make this happen, and I'm working through the

Spurious CPAN Tester errors from Sep 23rd to present.

2005-10-05 Thread Adam Kennedy
The new version of Test::More from Sep 23rd improved the STDERR output on test failure. Unfortunately, this has accidentally broken Test::Builder::Tester's test_fail function. (and maybe other test-testing modules) http://rt.cpan.org/NoAuth/Bug.html?id=14936 T:B:Tester is used by about 26 oth

Re: Spurious CPAN Tester errors from Sep 23rd to present.

2005-10-06 Thread Adam Kennedy
Some more test failures confirmations... Test::Exception is uninstallable. Test::SubCalls is uninstallable. Test::Pod is uninstallable. Test::Warn is uninstallable. test_fail() which is the problem in TB::Tester was really only a convenience function for test_diag( Failed at ... ). Pretty

Re: Spurious CPAN Tester errors from Sep 23rd to present.

2005-10-06 Thread Adam Kennedy
* Rolling back the change is a pain in my ass. BTW, this shouldn't be true. Just grab the previous stable tarball, unroll it, change the version to a higher one, and release. If it's a bitch to backout that one path, backout the entire stable release to the previous one. It's 5 lines of cod

Re: Spurious CPAN Tester errors from Sep 23rd to present.

2005-10-06 Thread Adam Kennedy
AFAIK there is only one module of consequence which does screen scraping on Test::More and that's Test::Builder::Tester (Test::Warn, it turns out, fails because of Test::Builder::Tester). Fix that, upload a new version and the problem goes away. Which is not true at all. Test::More gets upgra

Re: Spurious CPAN Tester errors from Sep 23rd to present.

2005-10-06 Thread Adam Kennedy
Just grab the previous stable tarball, unroll it, change the version to a higher one, and release. If it's a bitch to backout that one path, backout the entire stable release to the previous one. Did you see the number of bug fixes between 0.60 and 0.61? No, I'm not rolling back the entire re

Re: Spurious CPAN Tester errors from Sep 23rd to present.

2005-10-06 Thread Adam Kennedy
I'm disinclined to back this change out. See the bug for reasoning. http://rt.cpan.org/NoAuth/Bug.html?id=14936 To sum up: * There was ample warning. * You shouldn't be relying on screen scraping. * The fix to Test::Builder::Tester is trivial. * Rolling back the change is a pain in my ass. The

Re: Spurious CPAN Tester errors from Sep 23rd to present.

2005-10-07 Thread Adam Kennedy
AmethystSHEVEK Apache-ACEProxy MIYAGAWA Apache-DoCoMoProxy KOBAYASI Apache-Gallery LEGART Apache-No404Proxy MIYAGAWA [...the long list of modules continues...] This list came from CPANTS, right? I think there's something screwy with the way it's following dependencies.

Re: CPANTS: has_signature, has_pod_index

2005-11-07 Thread Adam Kennedy
* has_pod_index: The POD contains at least one X<> keyword that helps POD indexers. Whether only one is usefull is open for debate, because at least the license (X), your CPAN ID under authors (x), and some generic keyword what your module (X) is about can probably added even for the most minima

Re: Sometimes MakeMaker won't make.

2005-11-08 Thread Adam Kennedy
Doesn't makemaker only like you if you have a single .pm file just in the root directory? And otherwise you have to have your lib files actually under lib? lib/Tree/Splay.pm lib/Tree/Splay/Node.pm lib/Tree/Splay/IntRange.pm t/01_basics.t t/02_compat.t Makefile.PL MANIFEST - us

Re: RFC: Test::JSON

2005-11-14 Thread Adam Kennedy
My main comment would be that it can be very easy to get seduced in to dependency bloat when writing Test:: modules, and you should pay extra attention to avoiding it if possible. This is especially so if you have a dependency on a Module::Build Test:: modules, which is going to want to instal

Re: RFC: Test::JSON

2005-11-15 Thread Adam Kennedy
Chromatic wrote: On Mon, 2005-11-14 at 12:45 -0800, Ovid wrote: Yes, I can see that. I could actually have dropped Test::Differences "eq_or_diff" and just used the "is_deeply" function from Test::More, but when working with large data structures, there's just no comparison between the two. I

Re: Private tests

2005-11-15 Thread Adam Kennedy
Philippe 'BooK' Bruhat wrote: Le mardi 15 novembre 2005 à 15:23, Chris Dolan écrivait: After reading some of the insightful comments posted on my blog, I've been convinced that the private tests should be included in the CPAN distribution, but disabled in some way (perhaps via a file extensi

Re: Private tests

2005-11-15 Thread Adam Kennedy
David Golden wrote: Adam Kennedy wrote: What about a special environment variable, like RUN_PRIVATE_TESTS? I've been working on a concept of taggable tests on some of my larger commercial stuff, integrating with the Test::More skip() function, and some form of environment variables

Re: TAP as XML

2005-11-22 Thread Adam Kennedy
Michael There's existing work happening in this area you may want to get involved in. We even have a draft XML schema that does exactly what you are talking about. Go read http://ali.as/pita/ Then come hang out on irc://irc.perl.org/#pita Adam K Michael Peters wrote: Hello all, I'm in th

Re: TAP as XML

2005-11-22 Thread Adam Kennedy
Do you still think that YAML is a good intermediate format choice? Do you think an integration with other standard utilities to produce YAML would be possible (prove, etc)? YAML has a few ... issues. :/ I've laid them out before at http://cpanratings.perl.org/dist/YAML Brian has said that the

Re: TAP as XML

2005-11-22 Thread Adam Kennedy
A. Pagaltzis wrote: * Adam Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-11-23 01:40]: And XML was designed for, and still remains VERY good at, doing neutral format data interchange. Another option if you want a lightweight format for structured data is JSON. XML is very nice for doc

Re: TAP as XML

2005-11-23 Thread Adam Kennedy
. Adam K Michael Peters wrote: Adam Kennedy wrote: Michael There's existing work happening in this area you may want to get involved in. We even have a draft XML schema that does exactly what you are talking about. Go read http://ali.as/pita/ Definitely an interesting project. It i

Re: RT Permissions

2005-12-02 Thread Adam Kennedy
It's not magic, there is an option in RT for the old owner to give it away (which solves a subset of cases) but for me at least it was counter intuitive. The hideously old version of RT on rt.cpan.org is being replace shortly, and I imagine that Jesse will have way of taking maint changes into

Re: Flexible testing

2005-12-21 Thread Adam Kennedy
For some variety, you might want to take a look at the JavaScript implemention of the Test::* family, which we managed to build asyncronous testing into, so you can do things like onTimeout pseudo-threads that will happen asyncronously from your main testing. Now granted, that doesn't deal wit

Injecting functionality into Test::Harness without needing to touch it...

2005-12-29 Thread Adam Kennedy
I'm looking at writing a system a little similar to CPAN Testers. http://ali.as/pita/ I'll be announcing the project properly once I have some basics in place, but the part of it I'm caring about today needs to run through... Makefile.PL make make test sudo make install ...and capture the ou

Re: SKIP blocks and the debugger

2006-01-10 Thread Adam Kennedy
Kirrily Robert wrote: Does anyone else find that SKIP: { } blocks bugger up the debugger? I'll be happily bouncing on the "n" key to get to round about the vicinity of the failing test, and then blam, it sees a skipped test and just fast-forwards to the end. K. Yep Actually, eval doe

Re: how to detect that we're running under CPAN::Testers?

2006-01-12 Thread Adam Kennedy
Tyler MacDonald wrote: Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: For CPAN smokers based on CPAN::YACSmoke, the answer is: test the presence of the AUTOMATED_TESTING environment variable. See also the following page for more details: http://search.cpan.org/dist/CPAN-YACSmoke/lib/CP

Re: how to detect that we're running under CPAN::Testers?

2006-01-16 Thread Adam Kennedy
Anyhow, I haven't added the stats about whether a report is from automated testing as you can't tell unless the test is using YACSmoke as it adds a tag line in the report. Incidentally, Adam it would be worth you doing the same with PITA, so these sorts of stats could be gleaned in the future. S

Re: how to detect that we're running under CPAN::Testers?

2006-01-17 Thread Adam Kennedy
OK, I'll make sure there's some level of tagging about that in the reports. Adam K Barbie wrote: On Tue, Jan 17, 2006 at 06:06:50AM +1100, Adam Kennedy wrote: At the moment all our output is structured XML files, so at some point I need to write an XSL to translate it back down into

Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-27 Thread Adam Kennedy
Yes, CPAN can be a pain; however (kw|qu)alit(ee|y) is not meant to be a metrics of how easy to install a module is, but rather of whether it is possible to build something strong upon it, and to do so quickly and easily. (Or am I mistaken?) I disagree. A lot of the kwalitee metrics support best

Re: Dependency trees was: CPAN Upload: D/DO/DOMM/Module-CPANTS-Analyse-0.5.tar.gz

2006-01-27 Thread Adam Kennedy
Chris Dolan wrote: On Jan 27, 2006, at 12:01 PM, Tels wrote: On Friday 27 January 2006 18:48, Chris Dolan wrote: On Jan 27, 2006, at 11:23 AM, Tels wrote: Basically something like CPAN, but with much less network traffic and much less hassle for a user. Bonus points if it gives you stuff pre-

Re: Dependency trees was: CPAN Upload: D/DO/DOMM/Module-CPANTS-Analyse-0.5.tar.gz

2006-01-27 Thread Adam Kennedy
I think this would be rad: - PPM becomes part of the perl core - All CPAN packages are built to into PPDs automatically on common platforms - PPM is extended to allow installing into non-root locations This would allow non-perl people to install perl packages much easier, without having

Re: Dependency trees

2006-01-27 Thread Adam Kennedy
My point is just that what makes PPM so good is that it doesn't futz about with compiling code and running tests. It just installs the code and goes home. But then so does apt-get install libfoo-perl. The installation is environment specific. It's just that ActiveState provides a relatively c

Re: Test Script Best-Practices

2006-01-27 Thread Adam Kennedy
James E Keenan wrote: Steffen Schwigon wrote: Quite often -l (to read from lib/) is enough, depending on your module build complexity. For -b you have to call ./Build before "prove", which can be annoying and/or difficult to remember. I'll have to try that out. My modules all use MakeMaker ra

Re: Dependency trees was: CPAN Upload: D/DO/DOMM/Module-CPANTS-Analyse-0.5.tar.gz

2006-01-28 Thread Adam Kennedy
Graph::Easy installation failing here with YAML 0.50 (newer versions of YAML seem to be uninstallable at the moment due to Class::Spiffy + Spiffy + Test::Base install failures... Any suggestions? Adam K

Re: Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-28 Thread Adam Kennedy
Nicholas Clark wrote: On Fri, Jan 27, 2006 at 11:50:49PM -0800, chromatic wrote: Let me save you the trouble of writing it to find the biggest problem right now: fairly broken automated testing systems that can't even *run* the Build.PL file *or* the compatibility Makefile.PL yet send FAIL rep

Re: Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-28 Thread Adam Kennedy
Knocking off points for fails, however, might be due to things that are completely idiosyncratic. For example, anyone whose module depended on a test module that used Test::Builder::Tester when Test::Builder changed and broke it could get dinged. Does this really tell us anything about actu

Re: Dependency trees was: CPAN Upload: D/DO/DOMM/Module-CPANTS-Analyse-0.5.tar.gz

2006-01-28 Thread Adam Kennedy
t. So needs_lib entries result in a debian module using libfoo on Debian, or on RPM, or etc... Adam K A. Pagaltzis wrote: * Adam Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-01-28 09:00]: If a Perl module needs libfoo then it should be stated in the metadata somewhere so that the binary pa

Re: Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-28 Thread Adam Kennedy
A. Pagaltzis wrote: * Adam Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-01-28 16:20]: More to the point, it should lead people to spend more time looking into WHY their module isn't installing, and help us nail down the critical modules in the CPAN toolchain that have problems. Sounds to me

Re: Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-28 Thread Adam Kennedy
A. Pagaltzis wrote: * Adam Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-01-28 17:15]: So do have any additional specific objections, or are we up to "grumble, just fucking do it then, but I won't care" :) Actually, I like the effort, even if I share some of the concerns of the p

Re: Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-28 Thread Adam Kennedy
(*If* the author fixes the problem. I still can't get my patches for Sub::Uplevel high enough in Schwern's queue. Have you considered offering to take it over, or just co-maint the module for one or two releases? He's given away modules before to people that have more time to give them love t

Re: Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-28 Thread Adam Kennedy
Changing these HTTP like codes, might okay for an internal representation, but would require ALOT of work to change several CPAN modules and ensure all the testers upgraded. There is also the fact that all existing reports are in the system and not going to change. Although I may have misunderstoo

Re: Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-28 Thread Adam Kennedy
Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni wrote: Adam Kennedy wrote: That said, I'd also like "I need libfoo 1.41" declarations and other similar things, so we can really make the auto-packagers work some hardcore magic. /me takes the Net::Pcap maintainer hat I'd really like to see

Re: Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-28 Thread Adam Kennedy
Sébastien Aperghis-Tramoni wrote: Adam Kennedy wrote: Could you have a look at the COOKBOOK section of the Module::Install docs on CPAN, is that File::HomeDir example sort of what you would need? Module::Install... 1) I'm allergic to this module, 2) I want to keep the backward compatib

Re: Fwd: CPAN Upload: D/DO/DOMM/Module-CPANTS-Analyse-0.5.tar.gz

2006-01-29 Thread Adam Kennedy
Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote: On Fri, Jan 27, 2006 at 03:42:58PM +0100, Tels wrote: On Thursday 26 January 2006 15:26, Thomas Klausner wrote: I just uploaded Module::CPANTS::Analyse to CPAN. MCA contains most of the previous Kwalitee indicators and some code to check if one distribution tarbal

Re: Fwd: CPAN Upload: D/DO/DOMM/Module-CPANTS-Analyse-0.5.tar.gz

2006-01-29 Thread Adam Kennedy
Yitzchak Scott-Thoennes wrote: On Fri, Jan 27, 2006 at 03:42:58PM +0100, Tels wrote: On Thursday 26 January 2006 15:26, Thomas Klausner wrote: I just uploaded Module::CPANTS::Analyse to CPAN. MCA contains most of the previous Kwalitee indicators and some code to check if one distribution tarbal

Re: YAML and Makefile.PL (was various topics)

2006-01-29 Thread Adam Kennedy
=> '0.80'; build_requires 'Test::More' => '0.47'; install_share; auto_install; WriteAll; --- which creates the following META.yml --- no_index: directory: - inc - t generated_by: Module::Install

Re: YAML and Makefile.PL (was various topics)

2006-01-29 Thread Adam Kennedy
Except for the little fact that you have to bundle Module::Install in all of your modules and need not to forget to add inc/* to MANIFEST - Graph::Easy::As_svg increases from 27K to 47K gzipped That concerned me for a little while as well. But then someone pointed out to me that disk space

Re: Fwd: CPAN Upload: D/DO/DOMM/Module-CPANTS-Analyse-0.5.tar.gz

2006-01-29 Thread Adam Kennedy
David Golden wrote: Adam Kennedy wrote: And therein lies the problem. Working out when a dependency is important and when it's useless, or vanity, or lazyness (good or bad) or whatever requires a human judgment call. So we can't really do anything about it. Is it OK to us

Re: Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-29 Thread Adam Kennedy
And for the record, there are modules with incorrect C concerning the Perl version. For example, some ask a Perl 5.005 while they perfectly work on 5.004, like File::Temp and Test::Reporter. That's how I can send CPAN Testers reports under 5.004: http://testers.cpan.org/show/Net-Pcap.html And t

Re: Kwalitee in your dependencies (was CPAN Upload: etc etc)

2006-01-30 Thread Adam Kennedy
David Cantrell wrote: Adam Kennedy wrote: A testing system should only be sending FAIL reports when it believes it has a platform that is compatible with the needs of the module, but when it tries to install tests fail. So how, then, do I tell the testing system "this module only

Re: YAML and Makefile.PL (was various topics)

2006-01-30 Thread Adam Kennedy
brian d foy wrote: In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Adam Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: And if there is a problem with Module::Install, you have to update all your dists with the new version - solve one problem, create two new ones :) But if there is a problem with EU::

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