agic' or 'perl' - ie something that knows about | for pipes,
for dup'ing, |- for forking and soforth. 'file' could then be a vanilla
always-opens-a-file handler.
Nicholas Clark
this
The alternative approach to figuring out what is happening is to write
a program with AIO, and see what it looks like under truss.
truss is your friend :-)
Hmm. But solaris doesn't ship with a compiler, does it?
Nicholas Clark
annoying bug, in that if
you stack a discipline after some data have been read, any buffered bytes
(read from the OS, but not yet by the application) end up downstream of your
discipline, and you never get a chance to munge them. Which is a pain if
you're trying to put the zlib inflater on beca
say 7 bit ASCII and for utf depending on
what you got back.
Nicholas Clark
be more likely to be documented
full stop than if I had to fight XML.
I speak only for myself here. (oh, and my boss, who thought the same)
Nicholas Clark
z
I feel this current behaviour is potentially confusing.
On the other hand changing what we have is confusing to those who already
know it.
Nicholas Clark
l5;
I've also discovered that I missed a reference - rfc226
"Selective interpolation in single quotish context."
Nicholas Clark
a feature. Every
non-useful irregularity removed aids advocacy, teaching and documenting,
without hindering programming.
Nicholas Clark
to isolate and collate
the ideas from the rants, which in turn runs a natural language engine to
generate a RFC whenever it "thinks" of something?
Nicholas Clark
scoped, would it be for arrays declared in that scope, or
for arrays accessed in that scope?
I'm not sure. I think I see potential breakage both ways.
Nicholas Clark
On Sat, Sep 30, 2000 at 09:56:43PM +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote:
Similarly modules' formatting breaks if you set $/;
$\;
D'oh
How many of the punctuation variables would be better with less-than-global
scope?
Nicholas Clark
way, prototype, attribute...)
whether each function has read-write or read-only @_?
Nicholas Clark
facility on the perl5
archive much more effective. What do other people think?
Nicholas Clark
should also go in?
Nicholas Clark
OK only knowing ARM2 instructions well. And
I suspect personally I'd prefer to write in ARM assembler than C#)
Nicholas Clark (typing this on a StrongARM machine running linux)
__value_in_regs you get the results in r0 to r3.
Oh, and who said I didn't want to write my programs in perl and assembler?
Nicholas Clark
about how to get it there.
It's a shame they don't stick to products that they are definitely good at:
hardware and books.
I wonder what would have happened if all those years ago they'd called
themselves Microhard. :-)
Nicholas Clark
(or page fault time, or whatever). :-)
I thought so far we'd only had "use more".
I like "use less" and what it offers us:
use English; can be replaced with use less "line noise"; :-)
Nicholas Clark
On Wed, Oct 25, 2000 at 06:23:20PM +0100, Tom Hughes wrote:
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nicholas Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Specific example where you can't:
on ARM, the branch instructions (B and BL) are PC relative, but only have
a 24 bit offset field. The address space
the PC from a branch table in memory.
Nicholas Clark
On Wed, Oct 25, 2000 at 12:05:22PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
At 05:02 PM 10/25/00 +0100, Nicholas Clark wrote:
On Wed, Oct 25, 2000 at 11:45:54AM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
I vaguly can see a TIL that uses machine code linkage (real machine code
jumps) that perhaps could use relative
ly copy anything (wasting time and (shared) memory
pages) until either $a or $b got changed.
[I have this feeling that there's a bit of this already in sv.c, but I'm
not sure how much]
Nicholas Clark
er, with UTF we now have thousands more glyphs to use as
escapes in regexp :-)
[aargh. I'm off topic for this list]
Hmm, what about string comparisions? `eq' and friends should simply
conmtinue to work as usual on the string contents. Do we need some
kind of meta-eq to be able to compare the attribs also?
I think that that becomes a method call on one of the scalars.
Nicholas Clark
for this.
Agreed.
How does the regexp replacement engine cope with this? By implementing
all replacements as substr() type ops?
[or behaving as if it implements... whilst cheating and doing it direct for
scalars it understands?]
Or don't we need to work this out at this time?
Nicholas Clark
t might be from something unseekable such as a
pipe (or socket. BEGIN {socket STDIN...})
Nicholas Clark
a
If PDDs start as "Proposed" without needing any approval does this remove
the problem of a small group having a stranglehold?
Nicholas Clark
to have "lazy scalars" which collude with the regexp engine
so that if the regexp engine hits the current end more is read from
the file handle?
Something else?
Or is this no-a-problem for some reason I've not thought of?
Nicholas Clark
On Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 05:17:47PM +, Nicholas Clark wrote:
On Mon, Nov 27, 2000 at 11:09:03AM -0500, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
"ST" == Sam Tregar [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Look throught the RFCs this was one of Damian Conway's.
chaim =~ /RFC/
http://dev.perl.org/rfc/93
ntil we make the
harder stuff work. So we forget I ever sent that last paragraph for some
months]
Nicholas Clark
.html
ST Perhaps we really need a new kind of regex that works by-design against
ST streams of bytes?
I don't think any change is needed in the regex syntax. I think just being
careful to use minimal matching whenever possible should be sufficient.
Nicholas Clark
as 2 bytes?
For that matter I know of one compiler which doesn't have any type
sizeof(2), and sizeof (struct counted_file) is 8 here on this arm machine
:-) Wierdo but ANSI compliant alignment constraints.
[yes, I forced that one using the second struct inside the first]
Nicholas Clark
at the same time.
Nicholas Clark
On Tue, Nov 28, 2000 at 04:47:42PM -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote:
At 09:05 PM 11/28/00 +, Nicholas Clark wrote:
On Tue, Nov 28, 2000 at 03:35:37PM -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote:
Not sure:
Dan:
is treated as if it points to a stream of bytes, where the first four are
the length of the source
't help much. Let me throw together something more
detailed and we'll see where we go from there.
Hopefully it will cover the above case too.
Nicholas Clark
Scientist and the
Church of the Latter Day Saints in your list of organisations.
Do we need a sub list perl6-conspiracy-theories so that we can keep the
main lists free for other discussions?
Nicholas Clark
(for our information on user platforms)
(void flags, volatile, const, headers absent, functions absent)
]
Nicholas Clark
such a document an "apprentice" job? (see perl6-meta))
Nicholas Clark
On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 01:15:07PM -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote:
What I'm thinking is that we'll have a scoped destruct stack that gets
pointers to variables that explicitly need destruction, and as we exit
levels of scope we call the destructors of those variables that need it.
(They can
bites]
Not that that's important. But fflush(NULL) is, and we still seem to run
into that one on one current platform
But I agree with what you're saying.
Nicholas Clark
1 compiler
are as wise as decisions that make it hard to use anything other than one
implementation language.
[I'm not saying that we should use Java (or anything else for that
matter), just that I'd feel we'll have a more portable design if we
don't constrain our choices now]
Nicholas Clark
[UNKNOWN](sv2)
swaps to
sv2-add[NUM](sv1)
(It's "obvious" in the usual way - not obvious until you see it. I've been
prodding in pp_add in perl5, so I've been thinking about these sort of
things)
Nicholas Clark
rences to it to dust (or undef))
SMITE is hard work if you're not omniscient, as you have to go round
searching for everyone who might refer to it, or fake it by holding
a back reference to everyone who references you.
Nicholas Clark
but
ultimately theoretical arguments.
[Was it medieval scientists who preferred reasoning to experiments?]
Nicholas Clark
changes have made]
hangon, there was a point that was supposed to back up. Accuracy is needed,
but I fear that a single general scheme to deliver this will slow down the
common cases.
Nicholas Clark
I hope
I'm not asking an already asked question.
Nicholas Clark
On Tue, Dec 12, 2000 at 06:05:30PM +, David Mitchell wrote:
Nicholas Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, Dec 12, 2000 at 02:20:44PM +, David Mitchell wrote:
If we assume that ints and nums are perl builtins, and that some people
have implemented the following external types
any filter you want to write really has to cope
with parsing the entirety of perl to try to find the pattern you want
in the syntactic context you're interested in.]
Nicholas Clark
such system, Cray PVP (SV1 or YMP)
It doesn't like casting between data pointers and function pointers:
http://www.xray.mpe.mpg.de/mailing-lists/perl5-porters/2000-12/msg00558.html
Nicholas Clark
e issue, and waiting on the language spec
Nicholas Clark
On Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 12:43:15PM +, Simon Cozens wrote:
On Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 01:20:07AM +, Nicholas Clark wrote:
I'm assuming we're all sort of thinking that input is certainly
[good stuff]
Thanks, but you were supposed to tell me what I'd missed :-)
I don't think you can do
On Sun, Dec 17, 2000 at 02:11:50PM -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote:
Nicholas Clark writes:
Would it be sane to get the parser to return suitable information on the
source to let a syntax analyser (such as a highlighting editor) know that
character positions 5123 to 5146 are a qq() string
it less efficiently.
Just a passing thought. Extrapolated up from 1 RISC CPU I know quite well.
Nicholas Clark
s a series
of substr operations.
This doesn't answer the real challenge which is matching.
Nicholas Clark
on topic.
I think I'm not wrong in saying that making the parser state totally
encapsulated makes the parser restartable and goes a long way to making
it re-entrant.
Nicholas Clark
hing, so I try to keep quiet)
Nicholas Clark
ion to the best sort of number as need-be. (so "3.1 + 5i" would do
the right thing. presumably complex floating point)
And (like perl5) if you alter a numeric scalar as a string, it
becomes just a string
[so {(3.1 + 5i) . ''} is a string]
Nicholas Clark
On Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 09:00:47AM -0600, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
struct {
IV whatitis;
more a perl5 question - why IV not int?
int might be smaller and "more natural" (your words)
eg why does looks_like_number return IV not int? and various other bits
of the perl API use IV?
haviour
(TomC because it's not backwards compatible, Ilya because you can alter
a scalar's value as a side effect of accessing it, so what a scalar
appears to contain becomes a function of its access history, not simply
and solely what you assigned to it)
Nicholas Clark
ally want to do something a lot more
complex than simple "$y =~" in your expression.
Or do I guess wrong?
Nicholas Clark
s.
We old'ns need people that don't know "it can't be done" to tell us
how to do it - but we reserve the right to say "we tried that it didn't
work" too.
^ because
Nicholas Clark
On Thu, Dec 21, 2000 at 05:36:05PM +, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
Nicholas Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
where it is possible to get "smart" when one arg is a "special case" of
the other.
And similarly numbers must be convertable to "complex long double&q
hacking to make perl5's compiler good enough to bootstrap a
clean perl6 compiler to compile the perl systems to a binary.
Nicholas Clark
.
Nicholas Clark
.
Nicholas Clark
that be an acceptable perl5 compromise?
[follow up to p5p please]
Nicholas Clark
system has a dependency on the scalar buffer
subsystem (or at least one part of it, as SVs in turn might make requirements
on memory allocation APIs). That's still not the whole perl runtime though.
Nicholas Clark
va does do it, but as it's all going through Java's windowing library,
the implementation know where the windowing system calls are going to be)
Upshot is that threading can be written if need be, so that's one less
(admittedly now obscure) platform that isn't excluded by threading.
Nicholas Clark
long you slept for.
How does the program discover if sleep can do subseconds?
use Config; ?
Nicholas Clark
On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 05:15:41PM -0600, David L. Nicol wrote:
Nicholas Clark wrote:
On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 04:30:24PM -0600, David L. Nicol wrote:
sub has_post_blocks{
my $i = 3;
post { print "i ended up as $i"};
On Wed, Feb 07, 2001 at 10:59:00PM -0600, David L. Nicol wrote:
Nicholas Clark wrote:
on the other hand, I'll argue the other side that
{
my $flag
open FOO, "bar" ? $flag=1 : die "aargh $!";
...
}
post {
close FOO if $flag;
}
is clearer
ip without actually unpacking them anywhere)
Layers of some form are needed in perl6 to cope with utf8 and other
encodings, so I would expect the perl6 layer functionality can also be
extended to zip manipulations.
Nicholas Clark
.
reduce, reuse, recycle.
The first R might also be important :-)
Nicholas Clark
ompression method number.
Notice also the distinction - zip an archive format (put lots of files in
one file and take them out again) which allows entries to be compressed.
tar is just an archive format, gzip just a compression system.
how very unix - combine small tools to get a job done :-)
]
at we want to be able to do with it is more important?
2: Is this really still language? If not, where should we be discussing it?
Nicholas Clark
works no problem once all the .al files are in a zip
(it uses require)
s/zip/something else/g to generalise
Nicholas Clark
that perlbench would also not object to OO code for benchmarking.
Nicholas Clark
over quota), albeit in with a messy error.
OK, script crashing with an uncaught exception isn't nice, but it's nicer
than silently losing data IMHO.
Nicholas Clark
ot down my suggestion is an example where existing behaviour
can't be determined from void/scalar/list context.
Nicholas Clark
. ;-)
I don't think "will ever say" holds. And I think I'd phrase it as
"ongoing silence". But apart from that, it seems to be a working
assumption for design proposals.
Nicholas Clark
:
http://www.xray.mpe.mpg.de/mailing-lists/perl5-porters/2000-02/msg00369.html
Nicholas Clark
it is possible to change the
underlying representation from something packed to unpacked whenever it
seems appropriate without breaking anything that plays by the rules.
Nicholas Clark
undefined by ANSI, so it's legal.
(Thanks Helmut for persevering until we tracked this one down)
Nicholas Clark
that was expected, but didn't execute subsequence conditions
in the way that would be expected by an assembly programmer.
[However, I like the elegant sign bit testing logic you give.]
Nicholas Clark
On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 04:28:48PM -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote:
At 08:43 PM 3/8/2001 +, Nicholas Clark wrote:
I think most processors that do 32x32 multiply provide a way to get the
64-bit result. Whether *we* can is another matter, of course, but if
platform folks want to drop
shut up as I expect I'm ignorant of an RFC on how this
works without hitting either of the above problems.
Nicholas Clark
some crufty 7 bit serial login.
I think it would be a bad thing to effectively mandate that to use certain
features you had to use a Unicode aware editing system
Nicholas Clark
ut because they are used in more than 1 source file do need external
linkage.
Or were your "linkers are dead-stupid" words meaning that we can't tell
linkers to partially link libperl.a and then declare a whole bunch of
symbols that now can't be used for any purpose external to libperl.a
Nicholas Clark
else has exposed. So don't write these problems into
perl6.
Nicholas Clark
as to whether using .. as concatenation is a good idea]
Nicholas Clark
in C89]
Nicholas Clark
:-)
Which in turn reminds me of a patch by Jan Dubois that implemented copy on
write for perl5:
http://www.xray.mpe.mpg.de/mailing-lists/perl5-porters/1999-07/msg00550.html
Is it time to experiment with this in bleadperl?
[hmm. that's a reply-to perl5-porters question]
Nicholas Clark
uppercase and lowercase numbers?
[I had a dig about, and it doesn't seem to mention lowercase or uppercase
digits. Are they just a typography distinction, and hence not enough to
be worthy of codepoints?]
Nicholas Clark
loops immediately
(the ones perl5 misses) with a DOD run, or we could still do better than
perl5 by only guaranteeing to find them at some specified time later
(at DOD runs being one time we could specify)
All ways of doing deterministic destruction seem to have considerable
overhead.
Nicholas
$bday object at compile time? (and hence get compile time checking)
Without affecting general run time behaviour.
Nicholas Clark
?)
It would be interesting to see whether there are classes of problems that
go in different directions.
Nicholas Clark
--
Even better than the real thing:http://nms-cgi.sourceforge.net/
it
accepts?
Nicholas Clark
in list context, I was wondering what happens
If I pathologically define
sub silly ($foo, foo) {
}
and then call it
silly (foo=somearray, otherarray);
Presumably, it's a fatal error as it's ambiguous what the crazy programmer
wanted, but fatal errors don't feel very perl.
Nicholas
; # Or some other suitable default
}
or what?
And what happens if I write
%hash4 = (Something, mixing, pairs = and, scalars);
Nicholas Clark
--
Even better than the real thing:http://nms-cgi.sourceforge.net/
))
Nicholas Clark
--
Even better than the real thing:http://nms-cgi.sourceforge.net/
?
Nicholas Clark
1 - 100 of 1252 matches
Mail list logo
