Re: Killer Features of Perl 6

[Tony Edwardson]

Hi Kaare

It went well thanks and was well received.
My brief slides can be seen here 



As you will see, I concluded that there is lots of good new stuff in 
Perl6 most of which fall in to the 'nice to have' category rather than 
Killer features which would motivate someone to learn Perl6.

With two exceptions.
IMHO, the ability to be able to generate Java classes or even Javascript 
from Perl6 is a killer feature.
I realize that this functionality is not working at the moment but I 
plan to use this heavily when it is.
I work in the Banking sector which is notoriously reticent about 
allowing use of Perl but is perfectly happy with Java.


I also think that the Grammars feature as a kind of modern day lex/yacc 
is really nice


Everyone seemed to agree with me too

Cheers
Tony

On 15/09/2016 11:34, Kaare Rasmussen wrote:

Hi Tony
Thank you all for your input - I have started writing my talk and 
will publish my slides when I'm done.I may even video the talk and 
publish that too


How did it go (if I dare to ask)?

/kaare

Re: Killer Features of Perl 6

[Kaare Rasmussen]

Hi Tony
Thank you all for your input - I have started writing my talk and will 
publish my slides when I'm done.I may even video the talk and publish 
that too


How did it go (if I dare to ask)?

/kaare

Re: Killer Features of Perl 6

[Tony Edwardson]

Thank you all for your input - I have started writing my talk and will 
publish my slides when I'm done.I may even video the talk and publish 
that too


Tony

On 22/08/2016 16:01, Brock Wilcox wrote:
Correct -- there are some excellent REPLs for perl5 such as 
Devel::REPL and tinyrepl.


The advantage for Perl 6 will be (but is not yet) it's multi-threaded 
friendliness. I am slowly working on the tools to build something like 
clojure's nREPL -- a client/server repl where your console, editor, 
and even front-end world can all be talking to an interactive instance 
of your application with deep introspection and cool coordination 
through middleware.


Once it is working, rakudo-js will then allow this to get some really 
sweet workflows going, where you can edit code in your editor, have it 
pushed up to your browser, and use a console on the server to inspect 
and manipulate the state on the browser during interactive development.



On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 4:16 AM, Yubin Ruan > wrote:


On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 04:46:38PM -0400, Parrot Raiser wrote:
> The REPL (Read, Evaluate, Print, Loop) is a major benefit that
doesn't
> get mentioned much. It's going to be a great help in training
courses;
> so much so that I'm trying to think of a way of achieving one in
Perl
> 5.

Although REPL really provide greate help for people to get start in
learning a new language, I don't think we should call the REPL a
language
feature. It's just a implementation feature. I believe one can
easily add
a REPL for perl5(anyone here did?).

I would vote for the concurrency feature and the so called
built-in OO.

By the way, can I have a chance to watch this talk? Would it be
uploaded to
Youtube in the future ?

thanks,
ruan

> On 8/20/16, Elizabeth Mattijsen > wrote:
> >
> >> On 20 Aug 2016, at 22:14, Tony Edwardson
>
> >> wrote:
> >> In a few weeks I will be presenting a talk on a technical
meeting for
> >> Milton Keynes Perl Mongers and I have decided to try and sell
the benefits
> >> of Perl 6 to a bunch of Perl 5 experts.
> >> I am interested in your opinion on which of the many features
of Perl 6
> >> are the main reasons why anyone would migrate to Perl 6 from
Perl 5.
> >> Any opinions greatly appreciated.
> >
> > This is the text of the most up-to-date version of the Perl 6
Brochure that
> > Wendy made:
> >
> >

https://wendyga.wordpress.com/2015/12/25/why-would-you-want-to-use-perl-6-some-answers/


> >
> > Hope that helps  :-)
> >
> >
> > Liz

Re: Killer Features of Perl 6

[Timo Paulssen]

Could I interest you in focusing your time on the project arnsholt and
me started long ago to make a Jupyter/IPython compatible kernel?

https://github.com/timo/iperl6kernel

Re: Killer Features of Perl 6

[Brock Wilcox]

Correct -- there are some excellent REPLs for perl5 such as Devel::REPL and
tinyrepl.

The advantage for Perl 6 will be (but is not yet) it's multi-threaded
friendliness. I am slowly working on the tools to build something like
clojure's nREPL -- a client/server repl where your console, editor, and
even front-end world can all be talking to an interactive instance of your
application with deep introspection and cool coordination through
middleware.

Once it is working, rakudo-js will then allow this to get some really sweet
workflows going, where you can edit code in your editor, have it pushed up
to your browser, and use a console on the server to inspect and manipulate
the state on the browser during interactive development.


On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 4:16 AM, Yubin Ruan  wrote:

> On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 04:46:38PM -0400, Parrot Raiser wrote:
> > The REPL (Read, Evaluate, Print, Loop) is a major benefit that doesn't
> > get mentioned much. It's going to be a great help in training courses;
> > so much so that I'm trying to think of a way of achieving one in Perl
> > 5.
>
> Although REPL really provide greate help for people to get start in
> learning a new language, I don't think we should call the REPL a language
> feature. It's just a implementation feature. I believe one can easily add
> a REPL for perl5(anyone here did?).
>
> I would vote for the concurrency feature and the so called built-in OO.
>
> By the way, can I have a chance to watch this talk? Would it be uploaded to
> Youtube in the future ?
>
> thanks,
> ruan
>
> > On 8/20/16, Elizabeth Mattijsen  wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 20 Aug 2016, at 22:14, Tony Edwardson 
> > >> wrote:
> > >> In a few weeks I will be presenting a talk on a technical meeting for
> > >> Milton Keynes Perl Mongers and I have decided to try and sell the
> benefits
> > >> of Perl 6 to a bunch of Perl 5 experts.
> > >> I am interested in your opinion on which of the many features of Perl
> 6
> > >> are the main reasons why anyone would migrate to Perl 6 from Perl 5.
> > >> Any opinions greatly appreciated.
> > >
> > > This is the text of the most up-to-date version of the Perl 6 Brochure
> that
> > > Wendy made:
> > >
> > > https://wendyga.wordpress.com/2015/12/25/why-would-you-want-
> to-use-perl-6-some-answers/
> > >
> > > Hope that helps  :-)
> > >
> > >
> > > Liz
>

Re: Killer Features of Perl 6

[yary]

> why anyone would migrate to Perl 6 from Perl5.

In addition to the previous, some perl5-to-6-specific improvements:

consistent handling of $_ means not having to look up "what (if
anything) does this builtin do with a default?"

NativeCall is quite simpler than XS

Has an object system, so if you want to use it, you'll be using the
same one every other perl6 coder is using.

Lots of perl6 internals are written in perl6, which makes
understanding what's under the hood easier if you're curious, and
lowers the bar to getting involved in core development.

The ideal of "say what version this code is written in, and future
versions will run it" is great- it would mean things like the Coro
flap shouldn't happen in the future. On the other hand, it's an ideal
for Perl6-C on forward, and hasn't been tested yet. So it's a promise
of a "pro" that hasn't been demonstrated yet.

Drawbacks from my POV are all related to perl5's maturity relative to
perl6. Perl6's cpan "panda" is still embryonic, and Perl6's
cpantesters is even less developed than panda. I tried debugging a
3-year old P6 module by an expert that doesn't run in recent Rakudo,
and neither the error messages nor the REPL nor the debugger gave me
enough insight. I suspect once the debugger is more battle-tested it
will be able to show me where the issue is (or if I were to ask here
or on IRC, with the help, I could figure it out). The packaging for
modules is still in development/discussion.

-y

Re: Killer Features of Perl 6

[Wendy]

At 10:35 PM 8/20/2016, Elizabeth Mattijsen wrote:
>
>> On 20 Aug 2016, at 22:14, Tony Edwardson  wrote:
>> In a few weeks I will be presenting a talk on a technical meeting
>for Milton Keynes Perl Mongers and I have decided to try and sell the
>benefits of Perl 6 to a bunch of Perl 5 experts.
>> I am interested in your opinion on which of the many features of
>Perl 6 are the main reasons why anyone would migrate to Perl 6 from Perl 5.
>> Any opinions greatly appreciated.
>
>This is the text of the most up-to-date version of the Perl 6 Brochure
>that Wendy made:
>
>https://wendyga.wordpress.com/2015/12/25/why-would-you-want-to-use-per
>l-6-some-answers/
>
>Hope that helps  :-)
>Liz

I do have a newer version on Github, but by beiing too lazy, I 
haven't synced all versions.  I have an even newer version on paper, 
I mean, some people (Salve, and Jonathan, and Zoffix, for instance) 
have helped me greatly, and "I just have to do it".  But this one has 
newer texts.

https://github.com/wendyga/Perl6Brochure
I don't think "newer" is important.  Tony needed some benefits of 
Perl 6.  There you have them.


Greetz,
Wendy

Re: Killer Features of Perl 6

[Parrot Raiser]

In some ways, the problem is an embarrassment of riches. There are so
many aspects of P6 ("layers of the onion"), many of which are of no
interest to people who merely have a problem to solve. Many of the
concepts of P6 that are essential to its role as a language
development platform are somewhere between irrelevant and confusing
for a simple ETL program or Web-page generator.  Every feature
requires attention, (even if it's a cursory glance and a decision that
"I don't need that"). The more there are, the more effort has to be
employed.

If you are trying to teach English as a foreign language, you don't
want to drag in a professional grammarian. A variety of possible
programming styles is only a feature in itself if you have religious
obligations or a professional need (e.g. teaching CS courses).

Developing any new language requires hard work from people who are
"smarter than the average bear". There's a communication mismatch
between them and the trainees who will accept an explanation of the
usual math operators, but become visibly uncomfortable when "%" crops
up. There are a lot more of the latter than the former, so mass
acceptance depends on apparent simplicity, however hard the gerbils
are pedalling behind the scenes.

Re: Killer Features of Perl 6

[H.Merijn Brand]

On Sat, 20 Aug 2016 21:14:42 +0100, Tony Edwardson
 wrote:

> Hi All
> 
> In a few weeks I will be presenting a talk on a technical meeting for 
> Milton Keynes Perl Mongers and I have decided to try and sell the 
> benefits of Perl 6 to a bunch of Perl 5 experts.
> I am interested in your opinion on which of the many features of Perl 6 
> are the main reasons why anyone would migrate to Perl 6 from Perl 5.
> Any opinions greatly appreciated.

Constructive (colored) Clear Error Messages!

Whatever other killer feature is mentioned, if you fuck up, the error
is HELPing you. Really

> Tony

-- 
H.Merijn Brand  http://tux.nl   Perl Monger  http://amsterdam.pm.org/
using perl5.00307 .. 5.25   porting perl5 on HP-UX, AIX, and openSUSE
http://mirrors.develooper.com/hpux/http://www.test-smoke.org/
http://qa.perl.org   http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/


pgpIJ_5xyYVSx.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: Killer Features of Perl 6

[Yubin Ruan]

On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 04:46:38PM -0400, Parrot Raiser wrote:
> The REPL (Read, Evaluate, Print, Loop) is a major benefit that doesn't
> get mentioned much. It's going to be a great help in training courses;
> so much so that I'm trying to think of a way of achieving one in Perl
> 5.

Although REPL really provide greate help for people to get start in
learning a new language, I don't think we should call the REPL a language
feature. It's just a implementation feature. I believe one can easily add
a REPL for perl5(anyone here did?).

I would vote for the concurrency feature and the so called built-in OO.

By the way, can I have a chance to watch this talk? Would it be uploaded to
Youtube in the future ?

thanks,
ruan

> On 8/20/16, Elizabeth Mattijsen  wrote:
> >
> >> On 20 Aug 2016, at 22:14, Tony Edwardson 
> >> wrote:
> >> In a few weeks I will be presenting a talk on a technical meeting for
> >> Milton Keynes Perl Mongers and I have decided to try and sell the benefits
> >> of Perl 6 to a bunch of Perl 5 experts.
> >> I am interested in your opinion on which of the many features of Perl 6
> >> are the main reasons why anyone would migrate to Perl 6 from Perl 5.
> >> Any opinions greatly appreciated.
> >
> > This is the text of the most up-to-date version of the Perl 6 Brochure that
> > Wendy made:
> >
> > https://wendyga.wordpress.com/2015/12/25/why-would-you-want-to-use-perl-6-some-answers/
> >
> > Hope that helps  :-)
> >
> >
> > Liz

Re: Killer Features of Perl 6

[Andrew Kirkpatrick]

Numeric tower
String manipulation at the byte, code-point and character levels
Metaoperators
NativeCall
Multiple dispatch
Rich and gradual type system
Inline::* modules especially Inline::Perl5
Junctions
Laziness

On 21 August 2016 at 08:46, Steve Mynott  wrote:
> Grammars
> Concurrency
> Built in OO
> More than 1 implimenation
> Functional syntax
>
> S
>
>
> On Saturday, 20 August 2016, Tony Edwardson 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All
>>
>> In a few weeks I will be presenting a talk on a technical meeting for
>> Milton Keynes Perl Mongers and I have decided to try and sell the benefits
>> of Perl 6 to a bunch of Perl 5 experts.
>> I am interested in your opinion on which of the many features of Perl 6
>> are the main reasons why anyone would migrate to Perl 6 from Perl 5.
>> Any opinions greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> 4096R/EA75174B Steve Mynott 
>

Re: Killer Features of Perl 6

[Steve Mynott]

Grammars
Concurrency
Built in OO
More than 1 implimenation
Functional syntax

S

On Saturday, 20 August 2016, Tony Edwardson 
wrote:

> Hi All
>
> In a few weeks I will be presenting a talk on a technical meeting for
> Milton Keynes Perl Mongers and I have decided to try and sell the benefits
> of Perl 6 to a bunch of Perl 5 experts.
> I am interested in your opinion on which of the many features of Perl 6
> are the main reasons why anyone would migrate to Perl 6 from Perl 5.
> Any opinions greatly appreciated.
>
> Tony
>
>
>

-- 
4096R/EA75174B Steve Mynott 

Re: Killer Features of Perl 6

[Parrot Raiser]

The REPL (Read, Evaluate, Print, Loop) is a major benefit that doesn't
get mentioned much. It's going to be a great help in training courses;
so much so that I'm trying to think of a way of achieving one in Perl
5.

On 8/20/16, Elizabeth Mattijsen  wrote:
>
>> On 20 Aug 2016, at 22:14, Tony Edwardson 
>> wrote:
>> In a few weeks I will be presenting a talk on a technical meeting for
>> Milton Keynes Perl Mongers and I have decided to try and sell the benefits
>> of Perl 6 to a bunch of Perl 5 experts.
>> I am interested in your opinion on which of the many features of Perl 6
>> are the main reasons why anyone would migrate to Perl 6 from Perl 5.
>> Any opinions greatly appreciated.
>
> This is the text of the most up-to-date version of the Perl 6 Brochure that
> Wendy made:
>
> https://wendyga.wordpress.com/2015/12/25/why-would-you-want-to-use-perl-6-some-answers/
>
> Hope that helps  :-)
>
>
> Liz

Re: Killer Features of Perl 6

[Elizabeth Mattijsen]

> On 20 Aug 2016, at 22:14, Tony Edwardson  wrote:
> In a few weeks I will be presenting a talk on a technical meeting for Milton 
> Keynes Perl Mongers and I have decided to try and sell the benefits of Perl 6 
> to a bunch of Perl 5 experts.
> I am interested in your opinion on which of the many features of Perl 6 are 
> the main reasons why anyone would migrate to Perl 6 from Perl 5.
> Any opinions greatly appreciated.

This is the text of the most up-to-date version of the Perl 6 Brochure that 
Wendy made:

https://wendyga.wordpress.com/2015/12/25/why-would-you-want-to-use-perl-6-some-answers/

Hope that helps  :-)


Liz