Author: simon
Date: Sat Jan 19 21:55:18 2008
New Revision: 25030
Added:
trunk/docs/pdds/draft/pdd28_character_sets.pod (contents, props changed)
Changes in other areas also in this revision:
Modified:
trunk/MANIFEST
trunk/MANIFEST.SKIP
Log:
[docs] A start on the charsets PDD. Will
Author: simon
Date: Wed Jan 23 05:05:28 2008
New Revision: 25172
Modified:
trunk/docs/pdds/draft/pdd28_character_sets.pod
Log:
[docs][pdds] A little bit more. Implementation section next week.
Modified: trunk/docs/pdds/draft/pdd28_character_sets.pod
Author: simon
Date: Sat Jan 26 04:58:44 2008
New Revision: 25243
Modified:
trunk/docs/pdds/draft/pdd28_character_sets.pod
Log:
Nits picked by Mark Reed, David Romano and Larry
Modified: trunk/docs/pdds/draft/pdd28_character_sets.pod
how to fix this, but it looks like the assignment
operator is broken.
Simon
Patrick R. Michaud wrote:
> In r32873 I've updated assignment semantics so that it now tries to
> do the right thing when dealing with something coming from outside
> Rakudo's type system. In particular, assigning an UnManagedStruct
> to a scalar value should now properly take a reference instead
$conn.prepareStatement("INSERT INTO foo (bar, baz) VALUES (?,
?)");
$stm.setColumn(1, 123);
$stm.setColumn(2, "Thingy");
$stm.executeUpdate();
Merry Christmas,
Simon
Geoffrey Broadwell wrote:
> Someone needs to reply to the comments from readers who have confused
> DBI and DBDI, and have thus decided we are turning Perl into Java.
It's Perl people, Geoffrey. You tell them that you've made a racing car
out of old biscuit tins, they'll tell you that you painted
and so on. I'd like to know that our algorithms are robust. Feel
free to check in or send me failing tests so I can make them work. Other
general thoughts, encouragements or comments would also be welcome!
Thanks,
Simon
** PLEASE NOTE ** This email address is no longer valid and your message has
not been delivered. Please resend this message replacing the @liberata.com with
@hclibs.com
__
HCL Insurance BPO Services Limited (Registered in England a
On Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 02:26:26PM -0500, David L. Nicol wrote:
> Does anyone have on-their-shelves a regex-into-non-regex-perl translator?
Does anyone have on-their-shelves a David-Nicol-into-English translator? :)
> run time is not an issue
Wrong.
--
I decided to spread the bad mood: Dress
thing
> like that if it's to be used in perl 6, but that's a separate issue)
Oh, I see, I see. Sorry, was confusing "implemention of thing for Perl 6"
and "implementation of this handy tool for exploration purposes".
Simon
--
"The elder gods went to Suggoth and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
On Mon, Jun 04, 2001 at 04:20:12PM -0400, Uri Guttman wrote:
> that doesn't address larry's point which is very important.
No, I was replying to David, so I thought I'd address his point instead.
Conventional, I know. :)
> the regex compiler needs to be able to generate the equvilent of the
> a
On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 11:25:09AM +0100, Dave Mitchell wrote:
> This is the bit that scares me about unifying perl ops and regex ops:
> can we really unify them without taking a performance hit?
Coupl'a things: firstly, we can make Perl 6 ops as lightweight as we like.
Second, Ruby uses a giant
On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 10:17:08AM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Is it just me, or does this entire article reduce not to "Unicode doesn't
> work" but "Unicode should assign more characters"?
Yes. And Unicode has assigned more characters; it's factually challenged.
--
And it should be the law: I
On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 01:31:38PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> The other issue it actively brought up was the complaint about having to
> share glyphs amongst several languages, which didn't strike me as all that
> big a deal either, except perhaps as a matter of national pride and/or easy
> id
On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 09:16:05PM +0200, Bart Lateur wrote:
> Unicode "text" files
No such animal. Unicode's a character repertoire, not an encoding.
See you at my Unicode tutorial at TPC? :)
--
buf[hdr[0]] = 0;/* unbelievably lazy ken (twit) */ - Andrew Hume
On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 05:39:36PM -0400, Bryan C . Warnock wrote:
> Some languages don't have upper or lower case. Are tests and translations
> on caseless characters true or false? (Or undefined?)
I'd say undefined.
> Should the same Unicode character, when used in two different languages
On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 03:27:03PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Caseless characters should be guaranteed unchanged by conversion to upper
> or lower case, IMO.
I think Bryan's asking more about \p{IsUpper} than uc().
--
Henry, I'm a Regent Master of the Ancient and Venerable House of Congregati
On Tue, Jun 05, 2001 at 04:44:46PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> In the meantime, the normally-encountered working character set of modern
> Asian languages has been in Unicode from the beginning, and currently the
> older and rarer characters and the characters used these days only in
> proper nam
On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 07:28:45AM -0400, NeonEdge wrote:
> If that was the goal, then they failed.
Oh, for heaven's sake, don't be silly. Our goal is to write Perl 6.
We haven't done that yet. That was our goal, so we failed?
--
"IT support will, from 1 October 2000, be provided by college and
On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 09:06:09AM -0400, NeonEdge wrote:
> > Oh, for heaven's sake, don't be silly. Our goal is to write Perl 6.
> > We haven't done that yet. That was our goal, so we failed?
>
> Don't be ridiculous. With that as our goal, the ONLY way we could fail is to
> NEVER write Perl 6.
On Wed, Jun 06, 2001 at 09:57:58AM -0400, NeonEdge wrote:
> Perl 6 cannot assume that Unicode is done.
Don't tell anyone, but it never did.
--
Thus spake the master programmer:
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless."
-- Geoffrey James, "The Tao
On Wed, May 23, 2001 at 06:08:52PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
> ACY's taking a look into this too, so you may want to co-ordinate to avoid
> clashing. I've also told him what I'd like: something like this:
>
> Scalar
> Strings
> Chop from beginn
On Mon, Jun 11, 2001 at 11:32:33AM +0100, Dave Mitchell wrote:
> I'm about 3/4 the way through sv.c - I estimate another week before I'm
> done. The positive side effect is an impending patch that will add 500+
> lines of comments to sv.c.
Very cool! Thanks very much indeed.
--
You are in a maz
On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 05:03:17PM -0700, Damien Neil wrote:
> I can say that I feel that providing a mechanism for Hiragana
> characters to match Katakana and vice-versa is about as useful for a
> person doing Japanese text processing as case-insensitive matching is
> for a person working with En
On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 05:40:32PM -0700, Damien Neil wrote:
> The ability to match Hiragana as Katakana and vice-versa is almost
> identical conceptually to the ability to perform case insensitive
> matches on English text.
I am going to choose not to disagree with you on this, but...
> > What
On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 05:41:40PM -0700, Hong Zhang wrote:
> We should let external collator to handle all these fancy features.
Phew, I've been saying this all along. :)
> Please note regex is O(n) at best, adding an external collator
> will make is O(2n).
While this is very true, I think con
On Tue, Jun 12, 2001 at 06:45:31PM -0700, Damien Neil wrote:
> > Hrm, no, not usually; furigana are almost always hiragana, and
> > learner's textbooks - bah, they're not real Japanese. :)
>
> I believe you are confused;
*cough*. I believe I am not. But who am I? Let's ask Kenkyusha -
admittedly
We've pretty much run this subthread out of Perl content by now, so it
ought to stop here, and I should start exercising some of that
"restraint" thing. (Does it grow if you exercise it?)
So Damien, we can take it to private mail or to sci.lang.japan or something,
but if you promise to stop diggi
On Wed, Jun 13, 2001 at 07:17:06PM +, Nick Ing-Simmons wrote:
> Given the inner functions we could presumable generate the decode
> functions (c.f. xsubpp)
This is something I'm very much in favour of: it doesn't matter if
vtables mean we have loads of little functions, because we can auto-g
On Thu, Jun 14, 2001 at 11:05:31AM -0700, Benjamin Stuhl wrote:
> Who would ever _want_ to write 'sv = pp_gvsv(aTHX_ gv);'?
Read comp.lang.perl.moderated for a few weeks and look at the XS
questions. In the past month, we've had people needing to know how
to get the caller and how to bless a scal
What I'd *really* like to do to make this useful is to put together a
set of example programs so that we can bundle it all together and have
something to show. I'd like to be able to take this to non-perl6-* people
to give them a sneak-preview of the language too; for that to be worthwhile,
they n
On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 11:50:49AM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> Unless I'm missing something (Simon? Hong?) Japanese (and potentially all
> the languages that use the Han characters) can interpret a particular
> character as either a number or not a number, depending on context.
U
On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 07:45:58PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> If we can't effectively do it correctly, I can live with that. I just want
> the suboptimal behaviour to be on purpose (and hopefully overridable by
> someone clever enough) rather than accidental.
As I've intimated in the past, I
On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 06:58:24PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> The kanji dictionary I have handy gives non-numeric translations for
> several of the numeric kanji, though it might be something that gets lost
> in translation.
Ah, OK; sure, there can be numerics with non-numeric meanings, but n
On Fri, Jun 15, 2001 at 07:12:45PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> The question, then, is should ya be considered a literal number in either
> of those contexts?
The phrase "in those contexts" suggests that it should in some and shouldn't
in others. This means that the regexp engine would need to u
pgraded to
Perl 6 yet, (This needs fixing.) but should still produce the miniperl
executable.
Play with it, get used to it, love it. This is how it's (probably) gonna be. :)
[1] If you haven't, grab http://simon-cozens.org/hacks/perly.c and perly.h
--- ../snap/perl/pp_hot.c Tue M
OK, some updates on this, if you're not already bored with it.
Firstly, I've put the whole thing together in a little tarball so you
don't have to apply patches yourself. This should make it a damned sight
easier for y'all to play with it. Get it from
http://simon-co
On Sat, Jun 16, 2001 at 04:06:10PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
> http://simon-cozens.org/hacks/perl6.tar.gz
More examples, strict.pm, and *finally* support for properties.
A modified version of Damian's binary tree program from the exegesis
is included.
Now you can do some *real
Have you noticed that the same issues keep coming up over and over:
Unicode representation, op despatch and signals, threading, integer
preservation, and so on and so on. Have you wondered how other
languages, like Python and Tcl, solve these? Do you know that *your*
experience with language imple
On Mon, Jul 02, 2001 at 03:00:54PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> >what about starting offset? that is used now to shorten a string from
> >the left side.
>
> D'oh! In. Out goes the unused.
Whoa there. Do we still actually want to do this? It's unclear whether
or not it's actually a net win.
--
On Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 05:10:03PM -0500, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
> BLB = block begin
> BBB = basic block begin
enter
> SE = statement end
nextstate
> BBE = basic block end
> BLE = block end
leave
Not that innovative, really. :) Will basic blocks ever be different
from scopes?
--
"Don't
On Sat, Jul 07, 2001 at 05:51:00PM -0500, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
> A basic block is a sequence of consecutive statements
> in which flow of control enters at the beginning and
> leaves at the end without halt or possibility of
> branching except at the end.
Oh, I know wh
On Tue, Jul 10, 2001 at 11:16:27AM -0500, Garrett Goebel wrote:
> Has anyone paid more than cursory attention to the recent announcements
> about "OpenSource" alternatives to .Net?
Yes. I've been talking with Miguel and others, and taking a look at
the code behind mono.
> Would Perl 6 stand to
ing.
I'd like to go, but would rather it was rescheduled. Lunchtimes sound
good.
OTOH, perhaps a bigger Perl 6 hacking BOF would be a good idea.
Simon
ke *I* have a clue what my TPC schedule is looking
like...)
Simon
Hello all.
There's been a load of discussion about the implementation of Perl 6 in
various places recently: at TPC, on language-dev, on python-dev, and in
various emails shot back and forth between some of the participants.
Conspicuously missing in that list of places is perl6-internals, wher
auto-generating op wrappers around vtable functions,
(saving one level of indirection) while leveraging the gain from a split-level
op despatch loop.
Simon
xadecimal magic
> header just like "CAFEBABE" is for java .class files.
Actually, I'm trying to make the bytecode magic be 0x13155A1.
Simon
On Wed, Aug 29, 2001 at 10:50:00AM -0400, Ken Fox wrote:
> Please say the file extensions are only needed to prevent a clash of the
> source file and bytecode if they're stored in the same directory...
>
> We can say "parrot foo.whatever" and parrot will do the right thing
> regardless if foo.wha
nts. I'll send some of these
out hopefully by the end of next week, and encourage people to pick
some functions and implement them. It's almost time to start coding,
people, almost.
Simon
On Thu, Aug 30, 2001 at 01:25:37PM -0400, Sam Tregar wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Aug 2001, Simon Cozens wrote:
> > It's almost time to start coding, people, almost.
> Not to be an ass, but is it?
Yes.
> It seems like we're still a long way from having a language spec.
That&#x
rations above the built-in watermark to relative
pointers in the fix-up section.
Opcodes may be overridden; Parrot will guarantee that overridable
ops will always be looked up in the op table before dispatch,
whereas non-overridable ops may be dispatched directly.
I hope this is enough to whet your appetite. There is more where that
came from, if I can be allowed time to finish. :)
Simon
foo {
> no optimizations;
> ...
> }
>
> or
> {
> local $opt = (ref $obj eq "SomeNewObject");
> # If the $obj has changed, don't run any optimizations
> }
Ah, you've seen optimize.pm from CPAN, then?
> [1] Chain? Branch? What's the correct terminology here?
Tree. :)
Simon
g my sub now, other than wrangling
over the semantics.
Simon
Here's the first of a bunch of things I'm writing which should give you
practical information to get you up to speed on what we're going to be doing
with Parrot so we can get you coding away. :) Think of them as having a
Apocalypse->Exegesis relationship to the PDDs.
I haven't yet finished writi
ve got me thinking there
> should be one very fast implementation of multi-method dispatching
> used at the opcode level.
Method despatch opcodes are a can of worms. Don't go there.
Simon
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 04:05:26PM -0700, Brent Dax wrote:
> In other words, when you have sub foo {} in your code, it will be
> assigned an opcode number in the 'private' section. The global section
> is for things that are built-in to Parrot, while the private section is
> for stuff you write.
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 08:19:32PM -0400, Sam Tregar wrote:
> I'm still not sure I understand why Parrot is doing string ops at all. Do
> all our target languages have identical semantics for string operations?
Nope. But that's OK, because they won't have identical vtables.
(The string vtable f
On Mon, Sep 03, 2001 at 09:53:11PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> Might as well just promote the things to PMCs and pass in a list of them.
I anticipate that, especially for Perl, in a lot of cases we'll be dealing
with PMCs more often than the "scalar" data types.
Simon
On Wed, Sep 05, 2001 at 08:32:36PM +1000, Rick Welykochy wrote:
> Dave Storrs wrote:
> [schnippe]
> > =head3 Generating Code on the Fly
>
> What's this =head3 stuff? My pod processor barfs on it :)
Then update it. :)
On Thu, Sep 06, 2001 at 11:05:37AM +0100, Dave Mitchell wrote:
> I'm trying to get my head round the relationship between pad lexicals,
> pad tmps, and registers (if any).
It's exactly the same as the relationship between auto variables, C
temporaries and machine registers.
Simon
C registers
had spare PMCs knocking around to store this kind of thing.
Simon
want to be doing is creating PMCs at
runtime.
> If a certain number of PMC regs are 'hardcoded' with pointers to
> PMC tmps, then we need to address register overflow, eg an expression like
>
> foo($x+1, $x+2, , $x+65);
That's slightly different, though, because that'll all be passed in as
a list.
Simon
On Sun, Sep 02, 2001 at 11:56:10PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
> Here's the first of a bunch of things I'm writing which should give you
> practical information to get you up to speed on what we're going to be doing
> with Parrot so we can get you coding away. :) T
On Thu, Sep 06, 2001 at 10:46:56AM -0400, Ken Fox wrote:
> Sure. I can do that while *waiting patiently* for Parrot to be
> released. ;)
Don't tell Nat I said this, but we're hoping for around the
beginning of next week.
Simon
ng Dan assemble all my Perl 6 code for me.
Simon
quot;. We really (IMHO)
> ought to pick something else so that we don't give people a
> convenient target for FUD.
Like this, you mean?
STRING_VTABLE Parrot_string_vtable[enc_max];
...
IV
string_compute_strlen(STRING *s) {
return (s->strlen = (Parrot_string_vtable[s->encoding].compute_strlen)(s));
}
:)
Simon
so I don't lose track of
> things)
Chuck 'em in. The rate I'm going, I'll assimilate them into the docs I'm
writing, which can probably become new PDDs.
Simon
You'll be glad to hear that the interpreter now supports strings.
Here's a document about how that happens and what STRING* means and
its API. As before, I'd like
i) people to come up with more fundamental operations on strings
ii) someone to take over this document and patch it up based o
On Fri, Sep 07, 2001 at 04:30:56PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> =item find_method Px, Py, tz
Using what kind of dispatch mechanism? Or is that what the t is for?
Simon
; it can be
detached from Parrot as a stand-alone string library, and hence shouldn't have
Parrot_... prefices.
Simon
ort split buffers? void* bufstart can be anything
you like. This is the point of the abstraction.
Simon
ation, garbage collection, and
> opcode dispatch are definitely within the purview of Parrot. However, the
> opcodes' code themselves aren't - they're provided by the language.
Not really. Language-specific operations on Things are the purview of
vtables. THEY're provided by the language.
Simon
mpared to getting working code out there. We can sort
it out later.
Simon
IW, it's just dawned on me that if we want all of these things to be
overloadable by PMCs, they need to have vtable entries. The PMC vtable
is going to be considerably bigger than we anticipated.
Simon
On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 09:42:38PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
> From CPAN: http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/S/SI/SIMON/parrot-0.0.1.tar.gz
>http://www.cpan.org/src/parrot-0.0.1.tar.gz
>(once the mirrors have updated)
>
> From CVS: See the
orary fix, because when
we have a configure system and IV isn't necessarily a long, we'll need to
do something more permanent.)
> This is the output from "cvs -q diff -u". Is this is the best way to send
> a multi-file patch from the CVS checkout?
Yes, thanks.
Simon
sing a trailing c to note a constant since we're using the opcode
> name as a C function name, and we're not counting on case-sensitivity in
> symbols.
*nodnod*. I knew there was a reason something smelt funny about that.
> Other than that (well, and Simon has a patch in to the
On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 11:13:15PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
> Brian, if you could cvs update (or grab the snapshot from
> http://www.netthink.co.uk/downloads/parrot-0.0.1.tar.gz)
If all goes well,
http://www.netthink.co.uk/downloads/parrot-nightly.tar.gz
will contain night
he Parrot API should look like for embedders.
And by embedders, don't forget we also mean Perl 6 itself, since Parrot is
just an interpreter - it's got to be fed bytecode from *somewhere*...
Simon
erl's config.h, or C preprocessor
abuse. :)
Furthermore, I'd like to see a Portability Pumpkin step forward to
warn us when we're doing things that don't go down too well on Cray
Unicos or QNX 6.
Simon
about that, and that's what max_bytes is
for.
> How many encoding specific
> optimizations are there? Is it worth having a table of
> custom transcoders instead of using a generic algorithm?
Yes.
Simon
On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 08:56:52PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> Nothing should read out of interp_guts.h. That's autogenerated from
> opcode_table. Or it was yesterday, but things might've changed. :)
Sorry, but things have changed. This is now where the op number assignments
are stored.
Simon
On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 09:10:17PM -0400, Bryan C. Warnock wrote:
> Okay, we'll start small. "length_s_i" is backwards - should be "length_i_s".
> Patch fixes code and test.
Thanks, applied.
On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 09:24:33PM -0400, Bryan C. Warnock wrote:
> This patch (temporarily) fixes the missing _ic on comparison opcodes.
Didn't apply cleanly. Can you try again from CVS?
Simon
On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 11:42:01PM -0700, Matthew Cline wrote:
> This is a first stab at the configure stuff for Parrot.
Damn, I knew I should have got that mail out last night. Sorry,
Matthew.
Simon
x27;t apply the previous patch, this one
required some babysitting.
Simon
oth styles of code.
Simon
what you're talking about. What
> else does it need to do?
I'd rather it took a config.h.in or similar and slapped the IV/NV/etc.
typedefs in the middle. This means we can hack the template each time
we need it to change, instead of hacking the Perl script that generates
config.h.
Thanks for working on this.
Simon
On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 02:49:24AM -0700, Brent Dax wrote:
> Attached are new Configure.pl and config.ht files. Feel free to rename
> config.ht if you want.
I did. Thanks, applied. Now go to sleep. :)
Simon
On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 03:06:27AM -0700, Matthew Cline wrote:
> Is parrot going to have it's own makefile generator, or should it use
> autoconf?
Please read my other mail on this.
Simon
On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 12:15:37PM -0400, Ken Fox wrote:
> Simon Cozens wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 10, 2001 at 08:38:43PM -0400, Ken Fox wrote:
> > > Have you guys seen Topaz?
> >
> > I may have heard of it, yes.
>
> That's it? You're rejecting all of
* complain I'm going the way of Perl 5.
That doesn't mean I'm not going to do it. I'm sure the Parrot programmers
are bright enough to get their heads around simple renaming.
Simon
On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 12:11:35PM +0100, Philip Kendall wrote:
> test3.pbc is still segfaulting on me though.
Yes, it is here too; I've sent some debugging info to Dan
and he's having a look at it. I'm trying to take a look at
it too. I suspect that CHUNK_BASE isn't doing what it should.
Simon
On Tue, Sep 11, 2001 at 04:19:12PM +0300, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
> P.S. Maybe the "long term" discussion should take place in
> perl6-build, to draw fire from the "short term"?
Thanks for thinking about this; it'd probably be a good idea to
move to perl6-build.
Simon
ing registers, and the ability to read in and execute bytecode.
We also have an assembler which can generate bytecode output from Parrot
assembly.
You can get the source tarball in (currently) two different ways:
From CPAN: http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/S/SI/SIMON/parrot-0.0.1.tar.gz
On Thu, Sep 13, 2001 at 01:55:08AM -0500, Gibbs Tanton - tgibbs wrote:
> Here are the transcendental math functions.
You star! I was *just* about to ask people for a patch on this.
Applied, thanks.
> 2.) I'm using the standard C math functions. I don't know if we want
> to always do this,
On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 03:38:28PM -0400, Gregor N. Purdy wrote:
> This Makefile patch addes euclid.pasm to the make test target.
Thanks, applied.
Simon
On Wed, Sep 12, 2001 at 03:40:52PM -0400, Gregor N. Purdy wrote:
> The attached t/.cvsignore file will cause cvs to ignore the products
> of 'make test'.
Thanks, (both) applied.
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