Re: Parrot on mobile platforms?
On Fri, Oct 24, 2008 at 12:00 AM, Allison Randal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That being said, I can't imagine Apple would be terribly keen to endorse anything which requires jail breaking the phone. Don't we have contacts in Apple? Getting official approval for trying this out might be a nice thing. In fact, I already know an iPhone developer who would be a great fit for a challenge like this (if he's interested). Yes, but the mobile group is completely separate from the open source group. Still, it's worth asking. Depending on how they interpret the SDK policy: (an application may not itself install or launch other executable code by any means, including without limitation through the use of a plug-in architecture…), any VM-based app might be verboten on the iPhone. -- Mark J. Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Parrot on mobile platforms?
--- On Thu, 23/10/08, Gabor Szabo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't you think it would be important to start working in this direction? What about OpenMoko? Doesn't that run a fairly standard Linux? -- Email and shopping with the feelgood factor! 55% of income to good causes. http://www.ippimail.com
Re: Parrot on mobile platforms?
On Wednesday 22 October 2008 23:23:46 Gabor Szabo wrote: I am totally lack of relevant knowledge so I'd like to get some from you. There are many mobile platforms out there. Linux based, Symbian, Blackberry, iPhone, Windows, Palm, Android, etc.. I wonder what are the chances of Parrot running on any of these? Decent, with some work. Has anyone tried? Not to my knowledge. What needs to be done in order to get Parrot on these devices? With the iPhone or Android-based phones, someone would have to crack the phone such that we have access to what passes for bare OS, instead of the Objective C/NeXT runtime or Dalvik. For the other platforms, we need to: 1) Figure out a cross-compilation strategy (which means improving our configuration system such that it takes hints from a file, not from direct probes and Perl 5's Config.pm) 2) Disable certain features (different runcores, JIT, much of NCI) 3) Add architecture and platform-specific files for the parts of POSIX they don't already support 4) Figure out an installation and execution strategy for bytecode 5) Revisit #2, to get the installation size down further (500k for a Parrot binary seems like a maximum) -- c
Re: Parrot on mobile platforms?
Thanks for the quick answer. Then I have another few questions :-) Don't you think it would be important to start working in this direction? Maybe to try to get someone work on this or to get sponsorship in that direction? Gabor On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 8:33 AM, chromatic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday 22 October 2008 23:23:46 Gabor Szabo wrote: I am totally lack of relevant knowledge so I'd like to get some from you. There are many mobile platforms out there. Linux based, Symbian, Blackberry, iPhone, Windows, Palm, Android, etc.. I wonder what are the chances of Parrot running on any of these? Decent, with some work. Has anyone tried? Not to my knowledge. What needs to be done in order to get Parrot on these devices? With the iPhone or Android-based phones, someone would have to crack the phone such that we have access to what passes for bare OS, instead of the Objective C/NeXT runtime or Dalvik. For the other platforms, we need to: 1) Figure out a cross-compilation strategy (which means improving our configuration system such that it takes hints from a file, not from direct probes and Perl 5's Config.pm) 2) Disable certain features (different runcores, JIT, much of NCI) 3) Add architecture and platform-specific files for the parts of POSIX they don't already support 4) Figure out an installation and execution strategy for bytecode 5) Revisit #2, to get the installation size down further (500k for a Parrot binary seems like a maximum) -- c
Re: Parrot on mobile platforms?
On Wednesday 22 October 2008 23:47:23 Gabor Szabo wrote: Thanks for the quick answer. Then I have another few questions :-) Don't you think it would be important to start working in this direction? Sure, but I think a lot of things are important. My top priority is to fix anything that blocks people who are trying to build things with Parrot (that includes answering questions and fixing documentation). My secondary priority is to clean up existing code to make future blockers impossible. My tertiary priority is to add new features. Maybe to try to get someone work on this or to get sponsorship in that direction? I'm happy to offer guidance to anyone who'd like to do this. -- c
Re: Parrot on mobile platforms?
--- On Thu, 23/10/08, Gabor Szabo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't you think it would be important to start working in this direction? Maybe to try to get someone work on this or to get sponsorship in that direction? I can't speak for Android, but I know one of the constraints on the iPhone is memory. This, as I recall, is part of the reason why they don't have garbage collection available and force people to manage memory directly (this, I might add, is a pain). Since I generally don't worry about memory, I've no idea if Parrot is a memory hog. That being said, I can't imagine Apple would be terribly keen to endorse anything which requires jail breaking the phone. Don't we have contacts in Apple? Getting official approval for trying this out might be a nice thing. In fact, I already know an iPhone developer who would be a great fit for a challenge like this (if he's interested). Cheers, Ovid -- Buy the book - http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/perlhks/ Tech blog- http://use.perl.org/~Ovid/journal/ Twitter - http://twitter.com/OvidPerl Official Perl 6 Wiki - http://www.perlfoundation.org/perl6
Re: Parrot on mobile platforms?
Don't you think it would be important to start working in this direction? Maybe to try to get someone work on this or to get sponsorship in that direction? I think the easier step towards this goal may be to make cross compiling works with two well-known platforms. For example, targeting mingw from linux, using the cross mingw package from the distro. -- Salu2
Re: Parrot on mobile platforms?
Ovid wrote: I can't speak for Android, but I know one of the constraints on the iPhone is memory. This, as I recall, is part of the reason why they don't have garbage collection available and force people to manage memory directly (this, I might add, is a pain). Since I generally don't worry about memory, I've no idea if Parrot is a memory hog. It's light on memory compared to other virtual machines, but would require some work to get it down to mobile phone size. That being said, I can't imagine Apple would be terribly keen to endorse anything which requires jail breaking the phone. Don't we have contacts in Apple? Getting official approval for trying this out might be a nice thing. In fact, I already know an iPhone developer who would be a great fit for a challenge like this (if he's interested). Yes, but the mobile group is completely separate from the open source group. Still, it's worth asking. Allison
