Re: L2R/R2L syntax (was Re: Everything is an object.)
On Wed, Jan 15, 2003 at 10:50:57PM -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote: At 12:05 AM + 1/16/03, Simon Cozens wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Sugalski) writes: Ah, that's a different question. Having Unicode synonyms may well be considered reasonable thing Sounds like the good old days of trigraphs. I was shooting for the good old days of sarcasm that people noticed, but alas I missed. I think dry, unlabled sarcasm may be unwise, considering the number of crazy ideas that have been put forward in all seriousness. Some have even been adopted, and hence redefined as inspired. Nicholas Clark
Re: L2R/R2L syntax (was Re: Everything is an object.)
--- Simon Cozens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Sugalski) writes: Ah, that's a different question. Having Unicode synonyms may well be considered reasonable thing Sounds like the good old days of trigraphs. It's very much like the good old days of trigraphs. But on the plus side, once all the losers get their fonts/xterms/editors up-to-speed on extended character sets, the trigraphs will die a forgotten death. Oh, glorious future ... =Austin
Re: L2R/R2L syntax (was Re: Everything is an object.)
At 8:08 AM -0800 1/16/03, Austin Hastings wrote: --- Simon Cozens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Sugalski) writes: Ah, that's a different question. Having Unicode synonyms may well be considered reasonable thing Sounds like the good old days of trigraphs. It's very much like the good old days of trigraphs. But on the plus side, once all the losers get their fonts/xterms/editors up-to-speed on extended character sets, the trigraphs will die a forgotten death. And keyboards, don't forget keyboards. These pesky primitive ones we have now would require a lot of shift-control-alt-meta-cokebottle key sequences... -- Dan --it's like this--- Dan Sugalski even samurai [EMAIL PROTECTED] have teddy bears and even teddy bears get drunk
Re: L2R/R2L syntax (was Re: Everything is an object.)
Dan Sugalski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And keyboards, don't forget keyboards. These pesky primitive ones we have now would require a lot of shift-control-alt-meta-cokebottle key sequences... And vt100 consoles ! There are still sysadmins that struggle with a buggy perl script, having rebooted in single user mode, on a production box at 23:15 pm. But this has been already said...
Re: L2R/R2L syntax (was Re: Everything is an object.)
On 2003-01-16 at 11:41:56, Dan Sugalski wrote: And keyboards, don't forget keyboards. These pesky primitive ones we have now would require a lot of shift-control-alt-meta-cokebottle key sequences... Unicode may have thousands of characters, but how many of them do you think you'll use often enough to need as keys? Even if Perl6 adopted all the Unicode operators suggested so far and several more, you should easily be able to make them one-modifier or at worst two-modifier keyboard macros. -- Mark REED| CNN Internet Technology 1 CNN Center Rm SW0831G | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Atlanta, GA 30348 USA | +1 404 827 4754
Re: L2R/R2L syntax (was Re: Everything is an object.)
--- Dan Sugalski [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 8:08 AM -0800 1/16/03, Austin Hastings wrote: --- Simon Cozens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Sugalski) writes: Ah, that's a different question. Having Unicode synonyms may well be considered reasonable thing Sounds like the good old days of trigraphs. It's very much like the good old days of trigraphs. But on the plus side, once all the losers get their fonts/xterms/editors up-to-speed on extended character sets, the trigraphs will die a forgotten death. And keyboards, don't forget keyboards. These pesky primitive ones we have now would require a lot of shift-control-alt-meta-cokebottle key sequences... Perl has never cared about keyboards -- install some of the non-US keyboard layouts and then try typing a relatively normal perl script. Tilde? Brackets? Forward and backticks? Hell, even dollar-signs are scarce in some layouts -- wouldn't want to omit that Lb. or Euro sign. I'm relatively certain that it's a trivial matter to create a Perl IME for windows, if one knows the 2.6 million windows things that must be known to get started (which I sadly don't). That's probably the solution. =Austin
Re: L2R/R2L syntax (was Re: Everything is an object.)
--- Austin Hastings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Simon Cozens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Sugalski) writes: Ah, that's a different question. Having Unicode synonyms may well be considered reasonable thing Sounds like the good old days of trigraphs. It's very much like the good old days of trigraphs. But on the plus side, once all the losers get their fonts/xterms/editors up-to-speed on extended character sets, the trigraphs will die a forgotten death. Oh, glorious future ... =Austin How about people who can't? Lots of people don't own the computer they're using, so to upgrade stuff they'd have to ask the sysadmin. And you know what happens when you annoy the sysadmin... __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
RE: L2R/R2L syntax (was Re: Everything is an object.)
Mr. Nobody:
# --- Austin Hastings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
# It's very much like the good old days of trigraphs. But on the plus
# side, once all the losers get their fonts/xterms/editors
# up-to-speed
# on extended character sets, the trigraphs will die a
# forgotten death.
#
# How about people who can't? Lots of people don't own the
# computer they're using, so to upgrade stuff they'd have to
# ask the sysadmin. And you know what happens when you annoy
# the sysadmin...
I suspect that was sarcasm.
--Brent Dax [EMAIL PROTECTED]
@roles=map {Parrot $_} qw(embedding regexen Configure)
If you want to propagate an outrageously evil idea, your conclusion
must be brazenly clear, but your proof unintelligible.
--Ayn Rand, explaining how today's philosophies came to be
RE: L2R/R2L syntax (was Re: Everything is an object.)
--- Brent Dax [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr. Nobody: # --- Austin Hastings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: # It's very much like the good old days of trigraphs. But on the plus # side, once all the losers get their fonts/xterms/editors # up-to-speed # on extended character sets, the trigraphs will die a # forgotten death. # # How about people who can't? Lots of people don't own the # computer they're using, so to upgrade stuff they'd have to # ask the sysadmin. And you know what happens when you annoy # the sysadmin... I suspect that was sarcasm. Which was? Mine or Austin's? __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: L2R/R2L syntax (was Re: Everything is an object.)
On Thursday, January 16, 2003, at 08:57 AM, Mark J. Reed wrote: On 2003-01-16 at 11:41:56, Dan Sugalski wrote: And keyboards, don't forget keyboards. These pesky primitive ones we have now would require a lot of shift-control-alt-meta-cokebottle key sequences... Unicode may have thousands of characters, but how many of them do you think you'll use often enough to need as keys? Even if Perl6 adopted all the Unicode operators suggested so far and several more, you should easily be able to make them one-modifier or at worst two-modifier keyboard macros. Well, I don't know about anyone else, but *I'm* planning on making many, many Unicode synonyms, to make my code shorter and more readable. For example, Cfor is too long, so I want to just make it curly-f, (ƒ). And Cwhen is even longer, so I'm going to use something else, probably lowercase omega (ω). The numbers-in-a-circle characters can be used for array options. Instead of @array[3], I'll be saying @array➌. And @array③ will mean every element of the array except for the third. I'm still looking for the Unicode sad-faced-clown-on-fire character. When I find it, I think I'm gonna make it mean Cshift. Well, that or Cunshift, I can't decide. It depends on how sad the clown looks. MikeL
Re: L2R/R2L syntax (was Re: Everything is an object.)
Glad to see someone heeded that warning about unrecognizable sarcasm; no danger of misinterpretation here . . . :) On 2003-01-16 at 10:01:04, Michael Lazzaro wrote: Well, I don't know about anyone else, but *I'm* planning on making many, many Unicode synonyms, to make my code shorter and more readable. For example, Cfor is too long, so I want to just make it curly-f, (ƒ). And Cwhen is even longer, so I'm going to use something else, probably lowercase omega (ω). The numbers-in-a-circle characters can be used for array options. Instead of @array[3], I'll be saying @array➌. And @array③ will mean every element of the array except for the third. I'm still looking for the Unicode sad-faced-clown-on-fire character. When I find it, I think I'm gonna make it mean Cshift. Well, that or Cunshift, I can't decide. It depends on how sad the clown looks. MikeL -- Mark REED| CNN Internet Technology 1 CNN Center Rm SW0831G | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Atlanta, GA 30348 USA | +1 404 827 4754
Re: L2R/R2L syntax (was Re: Everything is an object.)
--- Michael Lazzaro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I don't know about anyone else, but *I'm* planning on making many, many Unicode synonyms, to make my code shorter and more readable. For example, Cfor is too long, so I want to just make it curly-f, (Æ). And Cwhen is even longer, so I'm going to use something else, probably lowercase omega (Ï). The numbers-in-a-circle characters can be used for array options. Instead of @array[3], I'll be saying @arrayâzcaron. And @array⢠will mean every element of the array except for the third. I'm still looking for the Unicode sad-faced-clown-on-fire character. When I find it, I think I'm gonna make it mean Cshift. Well, that or Cunshift, I can't decide. It depends on how sad the clown looks. MikeL I think this is a great idea. Until now, it's been possible to read other people's code, so companies can fire a programmer and still have people who can read their code. Now employees will be able to be as bad as they want and nobody will be able to fire them. Job security through Unicode! (Yes, that was sarcasm.) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: L2R/R2L syntax (was Re: Everything is an object.)
--- Mr. Nobody [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Michael Lazzaro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I don't know about anyone else, but *I'm* planning on making many, many Unicode synonyms, to make my code shorter and more readable. For example, Cfor is too long, so I want to just make it curly-f, (Æ). And Cwhen is even longer, so I'm going to use something else, probably lowercase omega (Ï). The numbers-in-a-circle characters can be used for array options. Instead of @array[3], I'll be saying @arrayâzcaron. And @array⢠will mean every element of the array except for the third. I'm still looking for the Unicode sad-faced-clown-on-fire character. When I find it, I think I'm gonna make it mean Cshift. Well, that or Cunshift, I can't decide. It depends on how sad the clown looks. MikeL I think this is a great idea. Until now, it's been possible to read other people's code, so companies can fire a programmer and still have people who can read their code. Now employees will be able to be as bad as they want and nobody will be able to fire them. Job security through Unicode! (Yes, that was sarcasm.) Argh, I just realized the original was probably sarcastic too. Now I look like an idiot. Well, moreso than before. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: L2R/R2L syntax (was Re: Everything is an object.)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mr. Nobody) writes: Argh, I just realized the original was probably sarcastic too. Now I look like an idiot. Well, moreso than before. There has been more than a touch of sarcasm about nearly every post in this thread in the last two days. -- So i get the chance to reread my postings to asr at times, with a corresponding conservation of the almighty leviam00se, Kai Henningsen. -- Megahal (trained on asr), 1998-11-06
Re: L2R/R2L syntax (was Re: Everything is an object.)
--- Mr. Nobody [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Austin Hastings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Simon Cozens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Sugalski) writes: Ah, that's a different question. Having Unicode synonyms may well be considered reasonable thing Sounds like the good old days of trigraphs. It's very much like the good old days of trigraphs. But on the plus side, once all the losers get their fonts/xterms/editors up-to-speed on extended character sets, the trigraphs will die a forgotten death. Oh, glorious future ... =Austin How about people who can't? Lots of people don't own the computer they're using, so to upgrade stuff they'd have to ask the sysadmin. And you know what happens when you annoy the sysadmin... You remember that stoner kid who always sat at the back of the class and pretty much C/D/F'ed every class? That's what trigraphs are for -- the middle-to-bottom of the curve. If you can't upgrade, and your admin won't upgrade, then you learn to use the trigraphs. Right now almost all of us are in that boat. And we're talking about trigraph ops, like ~ and ~ and |~ and [+=] and whatever. As we get better, more Unicapable, whatever, we'll move on to full Unicode ops. Look at MIME -- once, the only way to email a binary file was with uuencode. A few short years later, presto! Every pinhead in the marketing department is attaching 4 gigabyte pdf files to their corporate spam. It's the same thing -- if people want to do something, and can benefit from it, then they'll drive it to happen. Think about what would have happened if someone argued that NO files should be binary, because we couldn't email binary files -- there'd be no downloadable internet porn. :-( A vote for Unicode is a vote for naked chicks! Go us! =Austin
Re: (AUTORESPONSE)Re: L2R/R2L syntax (was Re: Everything is an object.)
Whoever is working for qlcomm.com tech support and subscribed from work should probably unsubscribe and use a personal account, unless your boss wants 20+ messages per day coming in to your corporate mailbox. --- Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Customer, Your query has been received. Our Tech Support team will be reverting to you within 8 business hours (India time). You can chat with our Tech Support team via Yahoo Messenger Our ID is qlc_tech. we are online on all working days 9:30 a.m. to 6:30 p.m. (Indian Standard Time) As a long term solution, you could also consider purchasing an Annual Maintainence Contract. PostMaster is supported onsite in over 60 Indian cities. Thank you. At your service, PostMaster Tech Support. QuantumLink Communications Pvt. Ltd. +91 22 24986445-50 CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: If you have received this e-mail in error, please immediately notify the sender by e-mail at the address shown. This e-mail transmission may contain confidential information. This information is intended only for the use of the individual(s) or entity to whom it is intended even if addressed incorrectly. Please delete it from your files if you are not the intended recipient. Thank you for your compliance. -- QuantumLink Communications Pvt Ltd, Bombay, India
Re: L2R/R2L syntax (was Re: Everything is an object.)
--- Austin Hastings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Mr. Nobody [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Austin Hastings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Simon Cozens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dan Sugalski) writes: Ah, that's a different question. Having Unicode synonyms may well be considered reasonable thing Sounds like the good old days of trigraphs. It's very much like the good old days of trigraphs. But on the plus side, once all the losers get their fonts/xterms/editors up-to-speed on extended character sets, the trigraphs will die a forgotten death. Oh, glorious future ... =Austin How about people who can't? Lots of people don't own the computer they're using, so to upgrade stuff they'd have to ask the sysadmin. And you know what happens when you annoy the sysadmin... You remember that stoner kid who always sat at the back of the class and pretty much C/D/F'ed every class? That's what trigraphs are for -- the middle-to-bottom of the curve. If you can't upgrade, and your admin won't upgrade, then you learn to use the trigraphs. Right now almost all of us are in that boat. And we're talking about trigraph ops, like ~ and ~ and |~ and [+=] and whatever. As we get better, more Unicapable, whatever, we'll move on to full Unicode ops. Look at MIME -- once, the only way to email a binary file was with uuencode. A few short years later, presto! Every pinhead in the marketing department is attaching 4 gigabyte pdf files to their corporate spam. It's the same thing -- if people want to do something, and can benefit from it, then they'll drive it to happen. Think about what would have happened if someone argued that NO files should be binary, because we couldn't email binary files -- there'd be no downloadable internet porn. :-( A vote for Unicode is a vote for naked chicks! Go us! =Austin trigraphs are actually better, even if you are unicode capable. ~ is far easier to type than ctrl-u-15F9E2A01 or whatever it is. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: L2R/R2L syntax (was Re: Everything is an object.)
[Note: I originally sent this to Mr. Nobody alone, but that wasn't my intent. I'm re-sending it here, where I wanted it to go in the first place. -- bmb] Mr. Nobody wrote: trigraphs are actually better, even if you are unicode capable. ~ is far easier to type than ctrl-u-15F9E2A01 or whatever it is. Maybe, maybe not On my machine right now, it is very easy for me to type various accented letters, like a, e, etc, making words like resume (or is that resume) nearly as fast to type as the non-accented version resume. I can also type or relatively easily as well. (I have no idea how well those will be transmitted on this list. I typed hiragana using the hiragana script, and katakana in katakana, two of the standard character sets of Japan. I'm not sure why I have my computer at work set up to allow me to input Japanese, since I'm not ? ?? nor do I speak ???) But the techniques for typing in funky characters is well known, and easy. Most likely, in the future when I have to work in Perl 6, my editor will be set up so that typing the Unicode squiggly-arrow character will be as simple as typing the two characters '~' and '', just like typing a Spanish N is as easy as typing '~' and 'N' right now. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: L2R/R2L syntax (was Re: Everything is an object.)
On Thu, Jan 16, 2003 at 04:59:43PM -0500, Buddha Buck wrote: Buddha Buck wrote: Maybe, maybe not On my machine right now, it is very easy for me to type various accented letters, like a, e, etc, making words like resume (or is that resume) nearly as fast to type as the non-accented version resume. Hmmm, that's not what I wrote... On my machine, I had accents on the a and the e, and in the first two forms of resume. There are now four copies of the message in my sent folder (one to Mr. Nobody, one to the list, and two to myself), all of which have the proper characters in it. It appears that an intermediate relayer is converting my utf-8 formatted 8bit messages to us-ascii 7bit messages for no good reason. The Japanese came out badly, as well This would be one of the reasons why I don't think utf-8 perl6 scripts are a good idea. The headers I received make no mention of character set - does your mailer mark the message in any way? If not, then STMP will assume it's good old 7 bit ASCII Nicholas Clark
Re: L2R/R2L syntax (was Re: Everything is an object.)
On Thu, Jan 16, 2003 at 10:07:13PM +, Nicholas Clark wrote: The headers I received make no mention of character set - does your mailer mark the message in any way? If not, then STMP will assume it's good old 7 bit ASCII Thus we are back to using uuencode :-) -Scott -- Jonathan Scott Duff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: L2R/R2L syntax (was Re: Everything is an object.)
On 2003-01-16 at 16:42:15, Buddha Buck wrote: [Note: I originally sent this to Mr. Nobody alone, but that wasn't my intent. I'm re-sending it here, where I wanted it to go in the first place. -- bmb] This came in with a content type text/plain, charset=us-ascii. US-ASCII is by definition 7 bits only, so if you're planning on sending Latin-1 accented characters, or UTF-8, or anything else that requires that 8th bit not to be stripped and assumed 0, your email program has to set the headers properly. Doesn't matter what it looks like in your outbox; all the transfer points along the way have to know how to treat the contents, too. -- Mark REED| CNN Internet Technology 1 CNN Center Rm SW0831G | [EMAIL PROTECTED] Atlanta, GA 30348 USA | +1 404 827 4754
