Re: RFC: Rename local() operator
Nathan Wiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But it isn't "here" that's the problem. If we just wanted to change the value "here", we could use my(). The problem is that local() changes the value for somewhere else as well as here. Well, as has been pointed out, special^Wlocalized variables are scoped in time, not space, so: now $/ = "\n"; Personally, I like this alot, actually. It emphasizes what's going on really well. And it's short! As for the "need a verb" argument, my() and our() aren't verbs either. $/ = "\n" now; feels more English somehow. Would almost certainly be a bugger for perl to parse though. As for the 'need a verb' argument, it doesn't apply here because the assignment is the verb. -- Piers
Re: RFC: Rename local() operator
shadow $/ = "\n"; seems to have the right implications to me. Personally, I like this by far out of all the suggestions I've heard. "save" seems to say "save THIS value" (the one you're setting, not the global one you can't see). "hide" is a little too general (hide what in what?). But I like "shadow the global variable with THIS one". -Nate
Re: RFC: Rename local() operator
What about Chide ?
Here's yet another one - how about "here"?
{
here $/ = "\n"; # what it is in here
}
Not really any confusion on this - $/ is "\n" 'in here', but maybe
something else outside.
Unlike "hide" or others, this doesn't connote it's necessarily any
different from somewhere else - just that it's this value inside the
current block (which is what we're after, I think).
But it isn't "here" that's the problem. If we just wanted to change
the value "here", we could use my(). The problem is that local()
changes the value for somewhere else as well as here. Other names
suggested (like "shadow", or "mask") convey that idea better than
"here".
?
-Nate
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Re: RFC: Rename local() operator
At 12:50 AM 8/7/00 -0500, Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: On Sun, Aug 06, 2000 at 08:03:51PM -0700, Nathan Wiger wrote: What about Chide ? Here's yet another one - how about "here"? Doesn't this have a list of its own yet? Well, "here" isn't a verb and I think we need a verb er ... here. Granted, "local" isn't a verb either, but that's probably part of it's problem. Dang, just make it a pragma and let the user pick the word they want: use thingy (qw(save hide shadow here there plugh hold cut rinse plonk))[rand 10]; :-) -- Peter Scott Pacific Systems Design Technologies
Re: RFC: Rename local() operator
On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 10:54:16 -0500, Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: Csave If I had my druthers, save() would be it. I'm against it. Why? Because it suggests that all it does is save the value for later retrieval. It does not: the value is cleared as well. It masks the previous global value, as if it didn't exist before. save $/ = "\n"; That doesn't quite say it, does it? In PostScript, for example, there's a gsave and grestore, the "g" standing for graphics state. It allows you to save the current state of the graphics output device, on a stack, but it doesn't modify it. You can continue from there. It's a different concept. The name "local" is wrong, because it suggests a private value scoped in space. It is not, that's lexical values. It is scoped in time. I think it's name should refelect that. "temporary"? temporary $/ = "\n"; It's a mouthful. But it's going where I'd want it to go. -- Bart.
Re: RFC: Rename local() operator
On Sat, Aug 05, 2000 at 12:04:30PM +0200, Bart Lateur wrote: On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 10:54:16 -0500, Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: Csave If I had my druthers, save() would be it. I'm against it. Why? Because it suggests that all it does is save the value for later retrieval. It does not: the value is cleared as well. It masks the previous global value, as if it didn't exist before. save $/ = "\n"; That doesn't quite say it, does it? You're right of course, but I don't know of any one word that concisely and succintly means "save the current value of this variable, clear it, and restore on exit of the current scope" More words: store() # put away for the duration of the scope tuck() # Now I lay me down to sleep hide() # I kinda like this one :-) shelve()# probably too loaded stow() # Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale ... bury() # Oh my god! They've killed Kenny! I've changed my mind; my personal favorite is now "hide" -Scott -- Jonathan Scott Duff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: RFC: Rename local() operator
Nick Ing-Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What about Chide ? I think Cproxy or Cdeputy has merit - "while I am out contact ...". But I still think Csave is the essence of what it does. I like either Chide or Csave too, but just to throw out the other idea that occurred to me, what's being done here is in other languages often called shadowing. What about Cshadow? shadow $/ = "\n"; seems to have the right implications to me. -- Russ Allbery ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/
Re: RFC: Rename local() operator
guard protect Hmm, 'guard' is just as long as 'local'. chaim "JSD" == Jonathan Scott Duff [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JSD More words: JSDstore() # put away for the duration of the scope JSDtuck() # Now I lay me down to sleep JSDhide() # I kinda like this one :-) JSDshelve()# probably too loaded JSDstow() # Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale ... JSDbury() # Oh my god! They've killed Kenny! JSD I've changed my mind; my personal favorite is now "hide" -- Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
RFC: Rename local() operator
Since no one else has taken this up, I'll start an initial draft. =head1 TITLE Rename the Clocal operator =head1 VERSION Maintainer: J. David Blackstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 4 Aug 2000 Version: 1 Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Number: not yet assigned =head1 ABSTRACT The Clocal operator of Perl5 and earlier does not do what it claims to and should be renamed. =head1 DESCRIPTION New Perl programmers are often confused by the behavior of the Clocal operator, especially since a great deal of old educational material exists showing the obsolete practice of using Clocal to create subroutine arguments and local variables. Clocal does not provide variables that are local to the enclosing scope. Instead it permits what is known as dynamic assignment, the ability to temporarily assign a value to a variable such that the variable's original value will be restored when the current scope is exited. Relying on this mechanism to provide what most people think of as local variables (lexical scoping) can sometimes fail. Clocal is useful in many cases and should be retained but renamed to reflect its action. =head1 IMPLEMENTATION Many replacement names have been proposed for local on the perl6-language list, and I am sure there are others that were proposed on p5p in earlier days. My current favorite name is Cdynassign to reflect that a variable will undergo dynamic assignment. I am certain that better alternatives exist and that very few people will like that suggestion. A list of other proposed replacement names includes (but is not limited to, since I certainly have forgotten some): Cpushpop (to reflect the fact that the variable's old value is pushed onto a stack and popped off when the scope containing the use of the operator is exited) Cdynsave Csave Cclone (not a good idea, in my opinion. I think that means making an exact copy of an object.) Ctemp Csavetemp Ctempsave Cscopetemp Cdeliver Cpreserve Csaveval Ctempval Csaverestore Cmyval Cpushval Ccontain Cdetach Crevalue Clet (I'm not sure this was a proposal) None of these completely satisfies me, at the moment, and there does not appear to be any consensus among the group. =head1 REFERENCES The perlfunc manpage =cut J. David - On the flip side, we need to be Very Careful not to get our egos irrevocably tied to our proposals. I have a particular distaste for the sort of argument that goes, "If I can't have it my way, I'm going to take all my marbles and go home." -- Larry Wall
Re: RFC: Rename local() operator
Please do not send your RFCs to both perl6-rfc and perl6-$working_group. The RFC librarian will automatically forward your RFC with a number on it, which is kinda neater. K. -- Kirrily Robert -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://netizen.com.au/ Open Source development, consulting and solutions Level 10, 500 Collins St, Melbourne VIC 3000 Phone: +61 3 9614 0949 Fax: +61 3 9614 0948 Mobile: +61 410 664 994
Re: RFC: Rename local() operator
On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 01:37:09AM -0500, J. David Blackstone wrote: =head1 IMPLEMENTATION Csave If I had my druthers, save() would be it. -Scott -- Jonathan Scott Duff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
