Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Markus Laire
Sam Vilain wrote: ps, X11 users, if you have any key bound to AltGr, then AltGr + C might well give you a ¢ sign without any extra reconfiguration. For me AltGr + C gives Copyright-symbol ©. (SuSe 9.1, tested in konsole, kwrite and thunderbird) -- Markus Laire

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Kaoru Maeda
Darren Duncan wrote: In this case, I support the use of any international currency symbol for use as Perl sigils and/or operators as appropriate. Eg, we already use $ (dollar; unicode=0024; utf8=24) and ¥ (yen; unicode=00A5; utf8=C2A5), and I suggest that the next best one to exploit is ¤

Re: $1 change issues [was Re: syntax for accessing multiple versions of a module]

2005-10-21 Thread Benjamin Smith
On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 06:39:34PM -0600, Luke Palmer wrote: On 10/20/05, Nate Wiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Luke Palmer wrote: The fact that we use . instead of - (like every other language on the planet)? You're using my argument for me - thanks. See above. Huh? So you want to

Re: $1 change issues [was Re: syntax for accessing multiple versions of a module]

2005-10-21 Thread Luke Palmer
On 10/21/05, Benjamin Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 06:39:34PM -0600, Luke Palmer wrote: Huh? So you want to go back to Perl 5's arrow? *Anybody* coming to Perl 6 from some non-Perl 5 language is going to be more comfortable with dot. Unless it was Smalltalk,

Re: $1 change issues [was Re: syntax for accessing multiple versions of a module]

2005-10-21 Thread Luke Palmer
On 10/21/05, Luke Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/21/05, Benjamin Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 06:39:34PM -0600, Luke Palmer wrote: Huh? So you want to go back to Perl 5's arrow? *Anybody* coming to Perl 6 from some non-Perl 5 language is going to be

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Carl Franks
Where did you get ALT-155 from? I've just checked the windows Character Map, and ¢ (cent) is ALT-0162 ( If it's not in your startmenu, do start - run - charmap ) It displays in Eclipse (3.1.1) whether the Text File Encoding is set to Cp1252 (default) or UTF-8 or ISO-8859-1 Cheers, Carl

Re: $1 change issues [was Re: syntax for accessing multiple versions of a module]

2005-10-21 Thread Michele Dondi
On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, Luke Palmer wrote: Huh? So you want to go back to Perl 5's arrow? *Anybody* coming to Perl 6 from some non-Perl 5 language is going to be more comfortable with dot. (Also, I did like the arrow notation, but) how cool would be @cool=grep -cool, @misc; # if compared to

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Steve Peters
On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 11:03:07AM +0200, Bra??o Tichý wrote: /lurk - Original Message - From: Steve Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Luke Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: perl6-language@perl.org Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 4:21 AM Subject: Re: new sigil But I may have to support

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Steve Peters
On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 09:42:00AM +0100, Carl Franks wrote: Where did you get ALT-155 from? I've just checked the windows Character Map, and ¢ (cent) is ALT-0162 ( If it's not in your startmenu, do start - run - charmap ) Actually, both work. That's where the issus with the documentation

Re: syntax for accessing multiple versions of a module

2005-10-21 Thread John Adams
-Original Message- From: Patrick R. Michaud [EMAIL PROTECTED] I can state the compelling reason for this one -- it's way too confusing when $1, $2, $3, etc. correspond to $/[0], $/[1], $/[2], etc. In many discussions of capturing semantics earlier in the year, nearly everyone using $1,

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Juerd
Brent 'Dax' Royal-Gordon skribis 2005-10-20 21:42 (-0700): @ Array sigil Array sigil $ Scalar sigilScalar sigil % Hash sigil Hash sigil, modulo In non-term, it's not a sigil. There cannot be two subsequent terms. This is why it makes no sense to want

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Juerd
Steve Peters skribis 2005-10-21 6:07 (-0500): Older versions of Eclipse are not able to enter these characters. That's where the copy and paste comes in. That's where upgrades come in. Juerd -- http://convolution.nl/maak_juerd_blij.html http://convolution.nl/make_juerd_happy.html

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Carl Franks
On 21/10/05, Steve Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 09:42:00AM +0100, Carl Franks wrote: Where did you get ALT-155 from? I've just checked the windows Character Map, and ¢ (cent) is ALT-0162 ( If it's not in your startmenu, do start - run - charmap ) Actually,

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Steve Peters
On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 02:37:09PM +0200, Juerd wrote: Steve Peters skribis 2005-10-21 6:07 (-0500): Older versions of Eclipse are not able to enter these characters. That's where the copy and paste comes in. That's where upgrades come in. That's where lots of money to update to the

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Rob Kinyon
On 10/21/05, Steve Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 02:37:09PM +0200, Juerd wrote: Steve Peters skribis 2005-10-21 6:07 (-0500): Older versions of Eclipse are not able to enter these characters. That's where the copy and paste comes in. That's where upgrades

Re: Y [was: Re: new sigil]

2005-10-21 Thread Rutger Vos
Speaking of which the advantage of, say, « over is that the former is _one_ charachter. But Y, compared to ¥, is one charachter only as well, and is even more visually distinctive with most fonts I know of, afaict, so is there any good reason to keep the latter as the official one?!? Do

YAMM (Yet Another MetaModel)

2005-10-21 Thread Rob Kinyon
I'd like to propose a new metamodel that (I hope) will meet all the specs @Larry has stated thus far. This metamodel is in two parts. Part the first: There is a single object given to P6 called Factory. (No, Steve, there are no turtles.) Factory has two behaviors, no state, and no classes. The

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Braňo Tichý
/lurk - Original Message - From: Steve Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Luke Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: perl6-language@perl.org Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 4:21 AM Subject: Re: new sigil But I may have to support your code. That's the issue. Isn't perl6 assuming the source file

Class::Role, Class::Roles, and run-time role composition for Perl5

2005-10-21 Thread Tim Bunce
The Class::Role and Class::Roles modules on CPAN implement a form of compile-time Perl6 role composition for Perl5. Neither supports run-time role composition, as-in: http://dev.perl.org/perl6/doc/design/syn/S12.html#Roles The does operator returns the object so you can nest mixins:

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Stefan Lidman
For me AltGr + C gives Copyright-symbol (c). For me too, but AltGr + shift + E gives ¢. /Stefan Lidman

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Steve Peters
On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 09:35:12AM -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote: On 10/21/05, Steve Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 02:37:09PM +0200, Juerd wrote: Steve Peters skribis 2005-10-21 6:07 (-0500): Older versions of Eclipse are not able to enter these characters.

Re: Y [was: Re: new sigil]

2005-10-21 Thread Michele Dondi
On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, Rutger Vos wrote: _one_ charachter. But Y, compared to ¥, is one charachter only as well, and is even more visually distinctive with most fonts I know of, afaict, so is there any good reason to keep the latter as the official one?!? Do you even need to ask? It's

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Juerd
Steve Peters skribis 2005-10-21 9:10 (-0500): I saying that, since my up-to-date version of vi on my up-to-date OpenBSD can't type, much less even allow me to paste in, a Latin-1 character, this is an issue. You should report this bug. Hopefully, it will then be fixed before Perl 6 is

Re: Y [was: Re: new sigil]

2005-10-21 Thread Mark Reed
Speaking of which, the advantage of, say, « over is that the former is _one_ character. But Y, compared to ¥, is one character only as well, and is even more visually distinctive with most fonts I know of, afaict, so is there any good reason to keep the latter as the official one?!? I can't

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Mark Reed
On 2005-10-21 10:10 AM, Steve Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I saying that, since my up-to-date version of vi on my up-to-date OpenBSD can't type, much less even allow me to paste in, a Latin-1 character, this is an issue. If you're using stock vi rather than vim or elvis or at least nvi,

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Rob Kinyon
So, you are proposing that the Perl of the Unicode era be limited to ASCII because a 15 year old editor cannot handle the charset? That's like suggesting that operating systems should all be bootable from a single floppy because not everyone has access to a CD drive. I saying that, since

RE: [OT] new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Jan Dubois
On Thu, 20 Oct 2005, Steve Peters wrote: Again, I'd prefer not to be fired. Everything you have written above is not an option for the majority of the programmers out there. Also, not to helpful if you write your programs in TSO on an IBM mainframe. In general true, but the cent sign was

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Thom Boyer
On 10/20/05, Juerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Larry Wall skribis 2005-10-20 7:56 (-0700): the new sigil is the cent sign, so ::T is now written ¢T instead. 1. What does it look like? I've never used a cent sign, and have seen several. It looks like a lowercase c with a vertical line through

Re: syntax for accessing multiple versions of a module

2005-10-21 Thread Patrick R. Michaud
On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 09:14:15PM -0400, John Adams wrote: From: Luke Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] But $1 in Perl 5 wasn't the same as $1 in a shell script. I'm all for breaking things that need breaking, which is why I keep my mouth shut most of the time--either I see the reason or I

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Steve Peters
On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 10:30:40AM -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote: So, you are proposing that the Perl of the Unicode era be limited to ASCII because a 15 year old editor cannot handle the charset? That's like suggesting that operating systems should all be bootable from a single floppy

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Schneelocke
On 21/10/05, Steve Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I honestly don't know or care what flavor of vi I using, since it usually changes depending on what *nix flavor I'm working on. I also don't think that it should make a difference what editor I'm using with a programming language. Others seem

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Steve Peters
On Fri, Oct 21, 2005 at 05:27:53PM +0200, Schneelocke wrote: On 21/10/05, Steve Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I honestly don't know or care what flavor of vi I using, since it usually changes depending on what *nix flavor I'm working on. I also don't think that it should make a

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Spider Boardman
On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 16:52:04 -0600, Thom Boyer wrote (in part): Thom On 10/20/05, Juerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2. How can it be typed with X character composition, vim's digraphs and major international keyboards? For X11 composition, where getting into compose state is up to your X

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread TSa
HaloO, Brent 'Dax' Royal-Gordon wrote: Steve Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ~ seems to be available for a sigil, if my reading of S02 is correct, and the cent sign is replacing :: in all cases. If not (that is $::foo is still the global variable named foo) then * may also be available.

Re: $1 change issues [was Re: syntax for accessing multiple versions of a module]

2005-10-21 Thread Nate Wiger
Luke Palmer wrote: Every regex engine in every language uses $1 or \1. This includes Java, JavaScript, C, PHP, Python, awk, sed, the GNU regex libs, etc. Somehow other languages seem ok with this, because it's a widely-used convention. Perl 6's patterns are _not_ regexes anymore. But I doubt

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Juerd
TSa skribis 2005-10-21 18:54 (+0200): My 2¢ is that we should reap ^ from the one junction and promote it to become the 'runtime type information carrier' sigil---like the wings on the feet of Hermes/Mercury :) It is not necessary (or sane, but that's an opinion) to reap it from the junction,

Re: $1 change issues [was Re: syntax for accessing multiple versions of a module]

2005-10-21 Thread Mark Reed
On 2005-10-21 1:54 PM, Nate Wiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BTW, C and PHP both use - still. C++ is probably more relevant than C, but since it inherited the syntax, same diff. But in their case the underlying form is still a dot; A-B is just syntactic sugar for (*A).B. The distinction involved

Fwd: $1 change issues [was Re: syntax for accessing multiple versions of a module]

2005-10-21 Thread Rob Kinyon
Feh - I really need to get on gmail's case for providing a keystroke for Reply to All. Rob -- Forwarded message -- From: Nate Wiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Oct 21, 2005 2:38 PM Subject: Re: $1 change issues [was Re: syntax for accessing multiple versions of a module] To: Rob

Re: new sigil

2005-10-21 Thread Luke Palmer
On 10/21/05, Dave Whipp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Luke Palmer wrote: And in those kinds of corporate environments, you're not going to be working with any code but code written in-house. Which means that nobody is going to be using Latin-1, and everyone will be using the ASCII synonyms.

Slightly OT: zip() for Perl5?

2005-10-21 Thread Mark Reed
Is there a CPAN module which provides the functionality of ¥/zip() for Perl5? I don't see anything obvious in the Bundle::Perl6 stuff. Not hard to write, of course, just wondering if it's been done . . .

Zip more than two arrays?

2005-10-21 Thread Mark Reed
Hm. This brings up another point, which may have been addressed . . . The Python function and Ruby array method zip() both accept any number of arrays to interleave: zip([1,2,3],[4,5,6],[7,8,9]) [(1, 4, 7), (2, 5, 8), (3, 6, 9)] irb(main):001:0 [1,2,3].zip([4,5,6],[7,8,9]) = [[1, 4, 7], [2,

Re: Zip more than two arrays?

2005-10-21 Thread Luke Palmer
On 10/21/05, Mark Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hm. This brings up another point, which may have been addressed . . . The Python function and Ruby array method zip() both accept any number of arrays to interleave: zip([1,2,3],[4,5,6],[7,8,9]) [(1, 4, 7), (2, 5, 8), (3, 6, 9)]

Re: Slightly OT: zip() for Perl5?

2005-10-21 Thread Rob Kinyon
Does TYE's Algorithm::Loops's mapcar() provide the basic functionality of what you're looking for? Rob On 10/21/05, Mark Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there a CPAN module which provides the functionality of ¥/zip() for Perl5? I don't see anything obvious in the Bundle::Perl6 stuff. Not