Programming languages and copyright?

2006-10-23 Thread Markus Laire

Hello,
Does anyone know if programming languages are protected by copyright or not?

When creating a new program, you are not allowed to pick-and-choose
what you want from other programs sources as that would be a copyright
violation.

But when creating a new programming language, it seems that everyone
is picking-and-choosing what they want from other programming
languages. So I'd like to ask whether this is legal or not and why?

--
Markus Laire


Re: Programming languages and copyright?

2006-10-23 Thread Smylers
Markus Laire writes:

 Does anyone know if programming languages are protected by copyright
 or not?

Code can be copyrighted; ideas can't be.

 When creating a new program, you are not allowed to pick-and-choose
 what you want from other programs sources as that would be a copyright
 violation.

Sources is the key word there.  You are allowed to take inspiration
from what other programs _do_ -- indeed most programs out there seem to
be imitations of or rivals to others.

 But when creating a new programming language, it seems that everyone
 is picking-and-choosing what they want from other programming
 languages.

Yes, but not from the source of their implementation.  (At least, not
from the source of any which don't have a licence explicitly permitting
doing so.)

Smylers


Re: Programming languages and copyright?

2006-10-23 Thread Markus Laire

On 10/23/06, Smylers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Markus Laire writes:

 Does anyone know if programming languages are protected by copyright
 or not?

Code can be copyrighted; ideas can't be.


Yes, but the syntax of the programming language is more than just an idea.

Copyright-article[1] at Wikipedia says that Copyright is a set of
exclusive rights regulating the use of a particular expression of an
idea or information.

So, for example, the idea of look-behind assertions can't be
copyrighted as it's an idea.

But what about a particular form chosen to express that idea (e.g. to
use before pattern to denote look-behind)? Can this be copyrighted
as it's more than just an idea?

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright

ps. I'm asking this because I'm thinking of creating a (simple)
programming language by myself, but I'm unsure about how much syntax I
could copy from any existing programming languages.

--
Markus Laire


Re: Programming languages and copyright?

2006-10-23 Thread Buddha Buck

On 10/23/06, Markus Laire [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


On 10/23/06, Smylers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Markus Laire writes:

  Does anyone know if programming languages are protected by copyright
  or not?

 Code can be copyrighted; ideas can't be.

Yes, but the syntax of the programming language is more than just an idea.

Copyright-article[1] at Wikipedia says that Copyright is a set of
exclusive rights regulating the use of a particular expression of an
idea or information.

So, for example, the idea of look-behind assertions can't be
copyrighted as it's an idea.

But what about a particular form chosen to express that idea (e.g. to
use before pattern to denote look-behind)? Can this be copyrighted
as it's more than just an idea?



Here's another example (which I can work through to completion, unlike the
look-behind example:

It is an idea (and an old one) to place a symbol between two parts of a
mathematical expression to indicate the two parts should be added together.
That idea is uncopyrightable.  Going further, it is also an idea that should
multiple parts be present separated by the addition symbol without anything
to group them into pairs, they should be added from left to right.

It is an idea that that symbol should be +, and is likewise
uncopyrightable.

It is an idea that, when parsing such an expression, the rule to handle the
first idea should be that an expression can be a term, or a combination of
an expression, a '+' symbol, and a term.  This is also uncopyrightable.

The parsing rule (in BNF):

expression :== term | expression '+' term;

is a  particular expression of the idea we've been talking about, and as
such, is theoretically copyrightable.  However, it is also about the only
way to express that particular idea in BNF, so it may fail copyrightability
(in the US) on those lines anyway.

I wouldn't worry about stealing syntax from other languages, as long as you
don't steal their source code without permission.

Disclaimer:  I am not a lawyer, IP or otherwise, and the above should not be
construed as legal advice.

Look-behind assertions are an idea.
The use of before pattern as syntax to denote look-behind assertions is
also an idea.
The abstract grammar that

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright


ps. I'm asking this because I'm thinking of creating a (simple)
programming language by myself, but I'm unsure about how much syntax I
could copy from any existing programming languages.

--
Markus Laire