Re: [perl6/specs] a7cfe0: [S32] backtraces overhaul

2011-08-24 Thread Parrot Raiser
 S19 uses hyphens for all of perl6's long-form command-line flags.

Command-line flags and methods are separate sets. Hyphens would be the
norm for flags.

 In S28, we find $*EXECUTABLE_NAME and %*META-ARGS listed
 within 10 lines of each other.

 S32-setting-library_IO.pod and S32-setting-library_Numeric.pod each have
 public multi-word method names with hyphens.

In both cases, hyphens are linking qualifying adjectives to nouns,
while hyphens separate distinct words.  One could argue that is not
inconsistent.

On 8/23/11, Patrick R. Michaud pmich...@pobox.com wrote:
 On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 05:36:27PM +0200, Damian Conway wrote:
 And I'd like there to be a more consistent approach than that
 (though I don't really care what it actually is).

 +1 to consistency.

 Pm



Re: [perl6/specs] a7cfe0: [S32] backtraces overhaul

2011-08-24 Thread Mark J. Reed
  That kind of consistency is not much better than inconsistency in terms of
usability, IMO.  I'd much prefer a purely lexical convention that doesn't
rely on how you assign parts of speech or define a single word that has a
hyphen in it.

Given that we allow hyphens in identifiers, I'd personally like to see them
used everywhere, for all identifiers defined at the p6 level.  Lower-level
names that are just called from p6 are of course another matter.

I could also see substituting underscores for hypens in all-caps names for
ease of typing (at least, that'd be easier on US keyboards).

On Tuesday, August 23, 2011, Parrot Raiser 1parr...@gmail.com wrote:
 S19 uses hyphens for all of perl6's long-form command-line flags.

 Command-line flags and methods are separate sets. Hyphens would be the
 norm for flags.

 In S28, we find $*EXECUTABLE_NAME and %*META-ARGS listed
 within 10 lines of each other.

 S32-setting-library_IO.pod and S32-setting-library_Numeric.pod each have
 public multi-word method names with hyphens.

 In both cases, hyphens are linking qualifying adjectives to nouns,
 while hyphens separate distinct words.  One could argue that is not
 inconsistent.

 On 8/23/11, Patrick R. Michaud pmich...@pobox.com wrote:
 On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 05:36:27PM +0200, Damian Conway wrote:
 And I'd like there to be a more consistent approach than that
 (though I don't really care what it actually is).

 +1 to consistency.

 Pm



-- 
Mark J. Reed markjr...@gmail.com


Re: [perl6/specs] a7cfe0: [S32] backtraces overhaul

2011-08-23 Thread Damian Conway
It's a trivial point, but why hidden_from_backtrace instead of
hidden-from-backtrace? Especially given that the associated
method is is-hidden, not is_hidden?

Are we consistently using underscores for multi_word traits
and hyphens for multi-word methods? Wouldn't it be nice to
have a consistent and teachable rule?

And why is this entire message written in questions?
Have I simply been watching too many Whose Line Is It Anyway?
episodes?

Damian?


Re: [perl6/specs] a7cfe0: [S32] backtraces overhaul

2011-08-23 Thread Moritz Lenz

Am 23.08.2011 10:46, schrieb Damian Conway:

It's a trivial point, but why hidden_from_backtrace instead of
hidden-from-backtrace? Especially given that the associated
method is is-hidden, not is_hidden?


The current stance seems to be that low-level things are spelled with 
underscores, while we reserve the minus character for user-space code. 
Try grepping the specs for identifiers of built-ins that have a minus in 
it -- I didn't find any in a quick search.




And why is this entire message written in questions?


Is it? I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean.

See 
https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/a7cfe02002f665c120cf4b735919779820194757 
maybe it's a charset problem on your machine, or something.


Cheers,
Moritz


Re: [perl6/specs] a7cfe0: [S32] backtraces overhaul

2011-08-23 Thread Moritz Lenz

Am 23.08.2011 10:56, schrieb Moritz Lenz:

And why is this entire message written in questions?


Is it? I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean.


Never mind?


Re: [perl6/specs] a7cfe0: [S32] backtraces overhaul

2011-08-23 Thread philippe.beauch...@bell.ca
Help us always-explains-the-joke-man!!...
:)





Philippe R. Beauchamp
Secure Channel | Bell Business Markets
Associate Director - Application Services
Phone:   613-781-8953
Cell:613-327-6928


- Original Message -
From: Moritz Lenz [mailto:mor...@faui2k3.org]
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 04:56 AM
To: perl6-language@perl.org perl6-language@perl.org
Subject: Re: [perl6/specs] a7cfe0: [S32] backtraces overhaul

Am 23.08.2011 10:46, schrieb Damian Conway:
 It's a trivial point, but why hidden_from_backtrace instead of
 hidden-from-backtrace? Especially given that the associated
 method is is-hidden, not is_hidden?

The current stance seems to be that low-level things are spelled with 
underscores, while we reserve the minus character for user-space code. 
Try grepping the specs for identifiers of built-ins that have a minus in 
it -- I didn't find any in a quick search.


 And why is this entire message written in questions?

Is it? I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean.

See 
https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/a7cfe02002f665c120cf4b735919779820194757 
maybe it's a charset problem on your machine, or something.

Cheers,
Moritz


Re: [perl6/specs] a7cfe0: [S32] backtraces overhaul

2011-08-23 Thread Richard Hainsworth
If you're asking for an explanation of the humour, then it's easy. There 
is no word play or a significant reference to a program only available 
to a special audience.


Seems to me that when Damian got to the end of his email he noticed that 
each sentence ended in a '?'


That's not usual. Most emails contain assertions and questions.

The humour is really when he appended a ? to his own name. Was he 
really questioning what he was called?


Richard

On 08/23/2011 02:19 PM, philippe.beauch...@bell.ca wrote:

Help us always-explains-the-joke-man!!...
:)





Philippe R. Beauchamp
Secure Channel | Bell Business Markets
Associate Director - Application Services
Phone:   613-781-8953
Cell:613-327-6928


- Original Message -
From: Moritz Lenz [mailto:mor...@faui2k3.org]
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 04:56 AM
To: perl6-language@perl.orgperl6-language@perl.org
Subject: Re: [perl6/specs] a7cfe0: [S32] backtraces overhaul

Am 23.08.2011 10:46, schrieb Damian Conway:

It's a trivial point, but why hidden_from_backtrace instead of
hidden-from-backtrace? Especially given that the associated
method is is-hidden, not is_hidden?

The current stance seems to be that low-level things are spelled with
underscores, while we reserve the minus character for user-space code.
Try grepping the specs for identifiers of built-ins that have a minus in
it -- I didn't find any in a quick search.



And why is this entire message written in questions?

Is it? I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean.

See
https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/a7cfe02002f665c120cf4b735919779820194757
maybe it's a charset problem on your machine, or something.

Cheers,
Moritz


Re: [perl6/specs] a7cfe0: [S32] backtraces overhaul

2011-08-23 Thread philippe.beauch...@bell.ca
Whoosh
No... LOL

I was making reference to another Whose Line game, (as Damian was with the all 
questions thing)... And the hyphen thing. :)




Philippe R. Beauchamp
Secure Channel | Bell Business Markets
Associate Director - Application Services
Phone:   613-781-8953
Cell:613-327-6928


- Original Message -
From: Richard Hainsworth [mailto:rich...@rusrating.ru]
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 06:28 AM
To: perl6-language@perl.org perl6-language@perl.org
Subject: Re: [perl6/specs] a7cfe0: [S32] backtraces overhaul

If you're asking for an explanation of the humour, then it's easy. There 
is no word play or a significant reference to a program only available 
to a special audience.

Seems to me that when Damian got to the end of his email he noticed that 
each sentence ended in a '?'

That's not usual. Most emails contain assertions and questions.

The humour is really when he appended a ? to his own name. Was he 
really questioning what he was called?

Richard

On 08/23/2011 02:19 PM, philippe.beauch...@bell.ca wrote:
 Help us always-explains-the-joke-man!!...
 :)





 Philippe R. Beauchamp
 Secure Channel | Bell Business Markets
 Associate Director - Application Services
 Phone:   613-781-8953
 Cell:613-327-6928


 - Original Message -
 From: Moritz Lenz [mailto:mor...@faui2k3.org]
 Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 04:56 AM
 To: perl6-language@perl.orgperl6-language@perl.org
 Subject: Re: [perl6/specs] a7cfe0: [S32] backtraces overhaul

 Am 23.08.2011 10:46, schrieb Damian Conway:
 It's a trivial point, but why hidden_from_backtrace instead of
 hidden-from-backtrace? Especially given that the associated
 method is is-hidden, not is_hidden?
 The current stance seems to be that low-level things are spelled with
 underscores, while we reserve the minus character for user-space code.
 Try grepping the specs for identifiers of built-ins that have a minus in
 it -- I didn't find any in a quick search.


 And why is this entire message written in questions?
 Is it? I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean.

 See
 https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/a7cfe02002f665c120cf4b735919779820194757
 maybe it's a charset problem on your machine, or something.

 Cheers,
 Moritz


Re: [perl6/specs] a7cfe0: [S32] backtraces overhaul

2011-08-23 Thread Mark J. Reed
I always think of the questions game in Rosencrantz and Guildenstern
(Lenzmoritz and Damienstern?) instead of Whose Line?.
15-love, Conway!


On Tuesday, August 23, 2011, philippe.beauch...@bell.ca 
philippe.beauch...@bell.ca wrote:
 Whoosh
 No... LOL

 I was making reference to another Whose Line game, (as Damian was with the
all questions thing)... And the hyphen thing. :)




 Philippe R. Beauchamp
 Secure Channel | Bell Business Markets
 Associate Director - Application Services
 Phone:   613-781-8953
 Cell:613-327-6928


 - Original Message -
 From: Richard Hainsworth [mailto:rich...@rusrating.ru]
 Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 06:28 AM
 To: perl6-language@perl.org perl6-language@perl.org
 Subject: Re: [perl6/specs] a7cfe0: [S32] backtraces overhaul

 If you're asking for an explanation of the humour, then it's easy. There
 is no word play or a significant reference to a program only available
 to a special audience.

 Seems to me that when Damian got to the end of his email he noticed that
 each sentence ended in a '?'

 That's not usual. Most emails contain assertions and questions.

 The humour is really when he appended a ? to his own name. Was he
 really questioning what he was called?

 Richard

 On 08/23/2011 02:19 PM, philippe.beauch...@bell.ca wrote:
 Help us always-explains-the-joke-man!!...
 :)





 Philippe R. Beauchamp
 Secure Channel | Bell Business Markets
 Associate Director - Application Services
 Phone:   613-781-8953
 Cell:613-327-6928


 - Original Message -
 From: Moritz Lenz [mailto:mor...@faui2k3.org]
 Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2011 04:56 AM
 To: perl6-language@perl.orgperl6-language@perl.org
 Subject: Re: [perl6/specs] a7cfe0: [S32] backtraces overhaul

 Am 23.08.2011 10:46, schrieb Damian Conway:
 It's a trivial point, but why hidden_from_backtrace instead of
 hidden-from-backtrace? Especially given that the associated
 method is is-hidden, not is_hidden?
 The current stance seems to be that low-level things are spelled with
 underscores, while we reserve the minus character for user-space code.
 Try grepping the specs for identifiers of built-ins that have a minus in
 it -- I didn't find any in a quick search.


 And why is this entire message written in questions?
 Is it? I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean.

 See

https://github.com/perl6/specs/commit/a7cfe02002f665c120cf4b735919779820194757
 maybe it's a charset problem on your machine, or something.

 Cheers,
 Moritz


-- 
Mark J. Reed markjr...@gmail.com


Re: [perl6/specs] a7cfe0: [S32] backtraces overhaul

2011-08-23 Thread Damian Conway
 The current stance seems to be that low-level things are spelled with
 underscores, while we reserve the minus character for user-space code. Try
 grepping the specs for identifiers of built-ins that have a minus in it -- I
 didn't find any in a quick search.

I had a little more time to look and found...

S12 describes Attribute objects as having a method named 'has-accessor',
but also having a method named 'get_value'.

S19 uses hyphens for all of perl6's long-form command-line flags.

In S28, we find $*EXECUTABLE_NAME and %*META-ARGS listed
within 10 lines of each other.

S32-setting-library_IO.pod and S32-setting-library_Numeric.pod each have
public multi-word method names with hyphens. And both also list other
identifiers that use underscores.

I'm not sure I'm seeing the pattern, though. Apart perhaps from older parts
of the spec use underscores, newer parts use hyphens.

And I'd like there to be a more consistent approach than that
(though I don't really care what it actually is).

Damian


Re: [perl6/specs] a7cfe0: [S32] backtraces overhaul

2011-08-23 Thread Patrick R. Michaud
On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 05:36:27PM +0200, Damian Conway wrote:
 And I'd like there to be a more consistent approach than that
 (though I don't really care what it actually is).

+1 to consistency.

Pm