Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-31 Thread Paul Hodges
--- On Tue, 3/24/09, jason switzer jswit...@gmail.com wrote: Basically, the perl community has largely adopted TIMTOWTDI So how about a Tim the Toady? :) === Hodges' Rule of Thumb: Don't expect reasonable behavior from anything with

Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed

2009-03-26 Thread Guy Hulbert
On Wed, 2009-25-03 at 18:06 -0700, Larry Wall wrote: : Here is something then: : http://p6.hpfamily.net/rakudo-0.png I like Camelia at that size, though the left-right balance is off in a couple ways. i was informed of that but so far this is just rescaling and cut-and-paste : So let

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-26 Thread Darren Duncan
Larry Wall wrote: On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 09:49:42AM -0700, Jon Lang wrote: : 2009/3/24 Larry Wall la...@wall.org: : http://www.wall.org/~larry/camelia.pdf Not picking on you in particular, but I think there's a tendency to go way too abstract in most of these proposals. I want something with

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-25 Thread Eirik Berg Hanssen
jason switzer jswit...@gmail.com writes: [warning: light-hearted humor ahead] There's also the notion that perl6's scope has creeped to accommodate a large enough set of ideas. Seems like an appropriate logo: http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2hl=enq=kitchen+sink I kinda liked that one

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-25 Thread TSa (Thomas Sandlaß)
On Tuesday, 24. March 2009 05:47:12 Darren Duncan wrote: If you're going for sciencey or mathey illustrations, then I think its important to include something that speaks quantum physics in there, since quantum superpositions aka Junctions are one of the big central user features that Perl 6

Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed

2009-03-25 Thread Timothy S. Nelson
On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Nigel Hamilton wrote: I like the Camelia it's colourful, fun - it even has an embedded, sideways reference to a Camel. But IMHO there is a need for three logos: I'm not so sure 1. Combined Parrot + Rakudo [snip] 2. Rakudo My understanding was that Rakudo

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-25 Thread Guy Hulbert
On Wed, 2009-25-03 at 10:45 +1100, Timothy S. Nelson wrote: In response to those asking for a professional designer, I'd like to see us go around a few more times here, and see if we can't come up with at least a good concept that could hopefully be used/stylised by a real graphic

Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed

2009-03-25 Thread Nigel Hamilton
I like the Camelia it's colourful, fun - it even has an embedded, sideways reference to a Camel. But IMHO there is a need for three logos: 1. Combined Parrot + Rakudo I like the suggestion of having cartoon speech bubbles around the Parrot that contain favicons of the language icons (e.g.,

Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed

2009-03-25 Thread Nigel Hamilton
But IMHO there is a need for three logos: 1. Combined Parrot + Rakudo (Parrot with speech bubbles in favicon halo)++ 2. Rakudo Camelia++ 3. Perl6 = the test suite The current plan is that Perl6 will not have a single implementation but that the test suite is shared by

Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed

2009-03-25 Thread Mark J. Reed
Perl 6 is more than just the test suite. It's a language specification, a reference parser, a test suite, and perhaps a reference setting implementation. All of the things about the language that are not tied to a particular implementation are part of Perl 6. Rakudo is a particular

Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed

2009-03-25 Thread Patrick R. Michaud
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 10:36:56AM -0400, Mark J. Reed wrote: Rakudo is a particular implementation of Perl 6 using Parrot. While it is a separate project from both Perl 6 and Parrot, it is intimately tied to both, and I think its logo should reflect that. I don't see much point in having

Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed

2009-03-25 Thread Guy Hulbert
Not speaking for Larry but ... On Wed, 2009-25-03 at 22:45 +1100, Timothy S. Nelson wrote: My understanding was that Rakudo only runs on top of Parrot. Either way, I don't see why we need a logo for Parrot + Rakudo, any more than we need I think it's a logo for Rakudo = Parrot +

Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed

2009-03-25 Thread Guy Hulbert
On Wed, 2009-25-03 at 09:59 -0500, Patrick R. Michaud wrote: On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 10:36:56AM -0400, Mark J. Reed wrote: Rakudo is a particular implementation of Perl 6 using Parrot. While it is a separate project from both Perl 6 and Parrot, it is intimately tied to both, and I think

Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed

2009-03-25 Thread Larry Wall
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 08:54:34AM -0400, Guy Hulbert wrote: : On Wed, 2009-25-03 at 22:45 +1100, Timothy S. Nelson wrote: : Additionally, while you recommended Camelia for Rakudo, my : understanding was that Larry was recommending it for Perl 6 rather than : Rakudo. This is correct.

Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed

2009-03-25 Thread Guy Hulbert
On Wed, 2009-25-03 at 09:39 -0700, Larry Wall wrote: On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 08:54:34AM -0400, Guy Hulbert wrote: : On Wed, 2009-25-03 at 22:45 +1100, Timothy S. Nelson wrote: : Additionally, while you recommended Camelia for Rakudo, my : understanding was that Larry was

Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed

2009-03-25 Thread Larry Wall
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 03:43:47PM -0400, Guy Hulbert wrote: : On Wed, 2009-25-03 at 09:39 -0700, Larry Wall wrote: : On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 08:54:34AM -0400, Guy Hulbert wrote: : : On Wed, 2009-25-03 at 22:45 +1100, Timothy S. Nelson wrote: : : Additionally, while you recommended

Re: Logo considerations - 3 logos needed

2009-03-25 Thread Matthew Wilson
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Larry Wall la...@wall.org wrote: http://www.wall.org/~larry/cameliafav.icohttp://www.wall.org/%7Elarry/cameliafav.ico out to be necessary. Hand-crafted anti-aliasing is your friend. :) Larry firefox at 3025%: cameliafav.ico all blown up. [groan]

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Darren Duncan
Replying to myself on the quantum thing, as I mentioned an image involving an transparent overlap of two generally mutually exclusive things (each a very simple image for the logo's sake) could have all sorts of symbolism. I mentioned the Junctions meaning already, but I wanted to add that in

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Damian Conway
Earlier I wrote: Maybe just something like one of the attached graphics (only redone by someone with actual graphical design skills ;-)? It occurs to me that this comment might be misread as an implied criticism of Conrad's original artwork as well. Just wanted to make it very clear that was

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Carl Mäsak
Richard (): There seem to be a lot of animals attached to software things, such as a camel, but also a penguin and a parrot. So how about choosing another animal for perl6? For some reason, when I think of Rakudo Perl 6, I imagine something quite close to Futurama's Nibbler.

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Timothy S. Nelson
On Tue, 24 Mar 2009, Damian Conway wrote: Earlier I wrote: Maybe just something like one of the attached graphics (only redone by someone with actual graphical design skills ;-)? It occurs to me that this comment might be misread as an implied criticism of Conrad's original artwork as well.

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Daniel Ruoso
Em Seg, 2009-03-23 às 21:47 -0700, Darren Duncan escreveu: If you're going for sciencey or mathey illustrations, then I think its important to include something that speaks quantum physics in there, since quantum superpositions aka Junctions are one of the big central user features that

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Daniel Ruoso
Em Ter, 2009-03-24 às 09:01 -0300, Daniel Ruoso escreveu: A zombie cat? While I wasn't really serious about it... attachment: cat.svg

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Mark J. Reed
Are we seeking a logo for Perl 6 in general or Rakudo in particular? It seems like the latter should be derived from the former, perhaps with the Parrot logo mixed in. On 3/24/09, Daniel Ruoso dan...@ruoso.com wrote: Em Ter, 2009-03-24 às 09:01 -0300, Daniel Ruoso escreveu: A zombie cat?

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Daniel Ruoso
Em Ter, 2009-03-24 às 09:17 -0400, Mark J. Reed escreveu: Are we seeking a logo for Perl 6 in general or Rakudo in particular? It seems like the latter should be derived from the former, perhaps with the Parrot logo mixed in. are you suggesting that the cat should be eating a parrot in the

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Dan Stephenson
On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 09:25:15 -0400, Daniel Ruoso dan...@ruoso.com wrote: are you suggesting that the cat should be eating a parrot in the rakudo logo? Haha... that's pretty funny. -- ispy++

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread John Macdonald
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 09:17:15AM -0400, Mark J. Reed wrote: Are we seeking a logo for Perl 6 in general or Rakudo in particular? It seems like the latter should be derived from the former, perhaps with the Parrot logo mixed in. The graphene logo inspires me to suggest that a carbon ring be

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Paul Hodges
--- On Tue, 3/24/09, John Macdonald j...@perlwolf.com wrote: The graphene logo inspires me to suggest that a carbon ring be used as the logo for Parrot...   A carbon ring also has the advantages that it's regognizable as a very small logo, even as just a favicon.ico, and can be reasonably if

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread John Macdonald
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 11:56:46AM -0400, Guy Hulbert wrote: On Tue, 2009-24-03 at 08:42 -0700, Paul Hodges wrote: --- On Tue, 3/24/09, John Macdonald j...@perlwolf.com wrote: The graphene logo inspires me to suggest that a carbon ring be used as the logo for Parrot... Did you mean

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Larry Wall
http://www.wall.org/~larry/camelia.pdf

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Jon Lang
2009/3/24 Larry Wall la...@wall.org: http://www.wall.org/~larry/camelia.pdf Cute. I do like the hyper-operated smiley-face. What I'd really like to see, though, is a logo that speaks to Perl's linguistic roots. That, more than anything else I can think of, is _the_ defining feature of Perl.

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread John Macdonald
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 09:49:42AM -0700, Jon Lang wrote: 2009/3/24 Larry Wall la...@wall.org: http://www.wall.org/~larry/camelia.pdf Cute. I do like the hyper-operated smiley-face. What I'd really like to see, though, is a logo that speaks to Perl's linguistic roots. That, more than

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Larry Wall
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 09:49:42AM -0700, Jon Lang wrote: : 2009/3/24 Larry Wall la...@wall.org: : http://www.wall.org/~larry/camelia.pdf : : Cute. I do like the hyper-operated smiley-face. : : What I'd really like to see, though, is a logo that speaks to Perl's : linguistic roots. That, more

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Larry Wall
Oh, I forgot to mention that Camelia's larval form was a dromedary, and she's actually got a wingspan of about 3 meters. You really don't want to get her mad. (It is rumored that she has a very small hump, but if so, she shows it only to her close friends.) She was genetically engineered while

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Doug McNutt
You folks should really consider the oyster as perl's mascot. The mother of pearl relationship is too good to pass up and I'll bet that someone will come up with a bi-valve operator soon. -- -- A fair tax is one that you pay but I don't --

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Larry Wall
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 01:33:41PM -0400, Guy Hulbert wrote: : I was unaware of mysogyny in the perl community. I'm sorry to hear : about it. In general it's not overt as it is in other communities, or even intended--I think we do pretty well, in fact--but it's easy to discourage people

RE: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Conrad Schneiker
Message- From: Damian Conway [mailto:dam...@conway.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 12:40 AM To: Conrad Schneiker Cc: Perl6 Subject: Re: Logo considerations Conrad Schneiker suggested: Graphene has amazing electron transport characteristics due to quantum effects (including

RE: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Conrad Schneiker
-Original Message- From: Conrad Schneiker [mailto:conrad.schnei...@gmail.com] Here's my latest suggestion: http://www.athenalab.com/Rakudo_logo_2.htm It combines Damian Conway's suggestions (please see below) and Ross Kendall's suggestions at

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Patrick R. Michaud
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 10:24:47AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote: I want something with gut appeal on the order of Tux. In particular I want a logo for Perl 6 that is: Fun Cool Cute Named Lively Punable [...] +2 to this approach. Pm

RE: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Conrad Schneiker
From: Guy Hulbert [mailto:gwhulb...@eol.ca] On Tue, 2009-24-03 at 11:38 -0700, Conrad Schneiker wrote: Here's my latest suggestion: http://www.athenalab.com/Rakudo_logo_2.htm It combines Damian Conway's suggestions (please see below) and Ross Kendall's suggestions at

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread James Fuller
creating a logo by committee is probably the worst way to design such things ... perl6 logo will be seen in the context of other more professionally designed logos and like it or not using the basics of modern branding and marketing will result in something that is more recognizable no matter

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Ruud H.G. van Tol
Larry Wall wrote: And in fact, the ö form looks more like a Hyper Attack Butterfly that is about to bite your face off... :) Her topmodel looks very hexagonal. |_| / \ -/ \- | | -\ /- \-/ | | -- Ruud

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Guy Hulbert
On Tue, 2009-24-03 at 08:42 -0700, Paul Hodges wrote: --- On Tue, 3/24/09, John Macdonald j...@perlwolf.com wrote: The graphene logo inspires me to suggest that a carbon ring be used as the logo for Parrot... Did you mean Rakudo here ? Parrot seems to have a logo already. A carbon

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Guy Hulbert
On Tue, 2009-24-03 at 09:16 -0700, Larry Wall wrote: http://www.wall.org/~larry/camelia.pdf It's nice but I don't get it. google: camelia http://camelia.sourceforge.net/ http://www.dooyoo.co.uk/plants/camelia/ http://www.hotelcamelia.com/ http://akira.ruc.dk/~camelia/

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Guy Hulbert
On Tue, 2009-24-03 at 10:24 -0700, Larry Wall wrote: Not picking on you in particular, but I think there's a tendency to go way too abstract in most of these proposals. I want something [snip] In addition, you can extend just about anything by attaching P6 wings to it. I also take it as a

RE: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Guy Hulbert
On Tue, 2009-24-03 at 11:38 -0700, Conrad Schneiker wrote: Here's my latest suggestion: http://www.athenalab.com/Rakudo_logo_2.htm It combines Damian Conway's suggestions (please see below) and Ross Kendall's suggestions at (http://www.rakudo.org/some-rakudo-logo-ideas). For a smaller

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread James Fuller
to further comment, I would never believe a logo actually influences which programming languages one chooses to develop in ... but I would argue that a logo needs to convey the right 'messages' to those who pay for software projects ... as with any logo; my point is to identify these messages

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Amir E. Aharoni
2009/3/24 Larry Wall la...@wall.org: http://www.wall.org/~larry/camelia.pdf Intended or not, the smiley is a nice tribute to Audrey and her lovely style of presentations. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni heb: http://haharoni.wordpress.com | eng: http://aharoni.wordpress.com cat:

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Guy Hulbert
On Tue, 2009-24-03 at 21:10 +0100, James Fuller wrote: creating a logo by committee is probably the worst way to design such things ... perl6 logo will be seen in the context of other more professionally designed logos and like it or not using the basics of I hate the java stuff

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread B. Estrade
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 09:16:01AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote: http://www.wall.org/~larry/camelia.pdf I gotta say, that these are the first 2 that I even remotely like. I especially like how the P and the 6 are in the wings. I think what appeals to me is that they are simple, easy to look at, and

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Guy Hulbert
On Tue, 2009-24-03 at 10:37 -0700, Larry Wall wrote: Oh, I forgot to mention that Camelia's larval form was a dromedary, well that might have given us a clue and she's actually got a wingspan of about 3 meters. You really don't want to get her mad. (It is rumored that she has a very small

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread jason switzer
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 3:10 PM, James Fuller james.fuller.2...@gmail.comwrote: Is there any sponsorship money to spend on a very good graphic designer to create something based on a small list of requirements as to what meaning it should convey ? I would agree; have a professional do it and

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-24 Thread Timothy S. Nelson
Firstly, I'd like to speak in favour of the idea of designing a logo for Perl6, and then creating a Rakudo logo based on the Perl6 logo and the Parrot logo. From here on, I'll be addressing the Perl6 logo. On Tue, 24 Mar 2009, Larry Wall wrote: On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 09:49:42AM -0700, Jon

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-23 Thread jerry gay
On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 09:22, Richard Hainsworth rich...@rusrating.ru wrote: Hats off to the designer of the gimel symbol - the associations with anarchy are probably right for perl6. But to be honest, a letter didnt quite inspire me. Since, I dont want to criticize without providing other

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-23 Thread Timothy S. Nelson
On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Richard Hainsworth wrote: My choice would be a lion, perhaps one lazing in the sun. The meaning that it is lazy, but it has raw power when it needs, and is the king of the jungle. Is there a way we can also show it to be impatient and hubristic? :)

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-23 Thread Timothy S. Nelson
On Tue, 24 Mar 2009, Timothy S. Nelson wrote: On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Richard Hainsworth wrote: My choice would be a lion, perhaps one lazing in the sun. The meaning that it is lazy, but it has raw power when it needs, and is the king of the jungle. Is there a way we can also show it

Re: Logo considerations

2009-03-23 Thread Darren Duncan
Timothy S. Nelson wrote [on p6l]: On Tue, 24 Mar 2009, Timothy S. Nelson wrote: On Mon, 23 Mar 2009, Richard Hainsworth wrote: Alternatively, if we stay away from animals, then how about something to do with parallelism, or super-positioning, or even a strange attractor, since perl6 can be