On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 08:44:28PM +0100, TSa wrote:
: HaloO,
:
: Larry Wall wrote:
: : ::Takes3Ints ::= :(Int,Int,Int -- Any);
: :
: : my foo:(Takes3Ints);
:
: I'd say that has to be something like:
:
: my foo:(Takes3Ints:);
:
: or maybe one of
:
: my
HaloO,
Stevan Little wrote:
This is actually the principe behind the Ruby style singleton methods
(the shadow class), it basically creates an anon-class which inherits
from $x's original class, then it rebinds/blesses $x into the anon-
class. It is very simple really :)
Yes, it's the
HaloO,
Larry Wall wrote:
: or is 'bound of' proper english?
It doesn't really resonate for a native speaker.
--snip--
: Plus, as we've defined
: them above, subtypes are the most generic type you can name in Perl.
--snip--
I wasn't using the term generic in a type-theoretic sense.
On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 01:05:16PM +0100, TSa wrote:
: With the introduction of kind capture variables ^T we could complety
: drop the subtype special form. As you pointed out the adding of constraints
: happens with the where clause anyway. Thus we return to the usage of the
: compile time name
On Mon, Nov 07, 2005 at 09:37:04AM -0800, Larry Wall wrote:
: It would be nice to generalize this sufficiently to be able to declare
: polymorphic objects resembling match objects:
:
:my $matchobj(Poly: Key^Int^Notthere -- Any);
:
: Or maybe that should be:
:
:my
HaloO,
Larry Wall wrote:
: ::Takes3Ints ::= :(Int,Int,Int -- Any);
:
: my foo:(Takes3Ints);
I'd say that has to be something like:
my foo:(Takes3Ints:);
or maybe one of
my foo:(Takes3Ints \!);
my foo:(\Takes3Ints);
my foo\(Takes3Ints);
since Takes3Ints
On Sat, Nov 05, 2005 at 01:55:11AM +0100, TSa wrote:
: Larry Wall wrote:
: The notion of constraints or limitations is already conveyed by
: where, and some subtypes may just be aliases.
:
: Wouldn't 'bound' work? Perhaps combined with 'on':
:
: bound SmallInt on Int where { 0 $_ 100 };
:
:
HaloO,
Larry Wall wrote:
On Wed, Oct 26, 2005 at 04:56:23PM -0600, Luke Palmer wrote:
: Then ^T $x binds T to the kind of $x. And $x.kind == $y.kind asks
: if two objects are of the same type,
:
: Don't you mean $x.kind eqv $y.kind?
I start to dislike the eqv name as generic value
HaloO,
Larry Wall wrote:
At the moment, I think the weakest word choice is subtype.
People from certain cultures will confuse subtypes with subclasses.
Not to mention submethods and subroutines!
The notion of constraints or limitations is already conveyed by
where, and some subtypes may
On Wed, 26 Oct 2005, Rob Kinyon wrote:
I'd like to take this moment and point to my somewhat hand-wavy
metamodel proposal from last week. When Stevan and I were talking
about this, we called it a quark. Atom also works quite nicely,
but quarks are cooler.
They're also colorful. Does this mean
On 10/26/05, Larry Wall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, Oct 26, 2005 at 07:35:05PM -0700, chromatic wrote:
: On Wed, 2005-10-26 at 21:58 -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote:
:
: Plus, the argument is a straw man. Instead of:
:
: class Some::Class is also {
: }
:
: you would do:
:
:
On Thu, Oct 27, 2005 at 05:37:13AM -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote:
: Will I be able to do something like:
:
: package Foo;
Hmm, you just started in Perl 5 mode.
: $*VERSION = 1.3.2;
Perl 5 would get confused here, so I'm presuming Perl 6. But Perl 6
isn't likely to let you override the global
On 10/27/05, Larry Wall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thu, Oct 27, 2005 at 05:37:13AM -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote:
: Will I be able to do something like:
:
: package Foo;
Hmm, you just started in Perl 5 mode.
: $*VERSION = 1.3.2;
Perl 5 would get confused here, so I'm presuming Perl 6. But
On Tue, Oct 25, 2005 at 05:17:40PM -0400, Stevan Little wrote:
: Larry,
:
: On Oct 25, 2005, at 4:37 PM, Larry Wall wrote:
: On Mon, Oct 24, 2005 at 06:33:20AM -0700, Ashley Winters wrote:
: : # behavior through prototype -- guessing realistic syntax
: : Base.meta.add_method(
: : do_it =
That's just self.meta.add_method($label, $method) by my lights.
A .meta already implies/ignores the .class coercion. If we are to
support prototype-based programming $x.meta *must not care* whether
it has been given a class or an instance or something in between.
What I am calling a class
On Wed, Oct 26, 2005 at 11:31:28AM -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote:
: That's just self.meta.add_method($label, $method) by my lights.
: A .meta already implies/ignores the .class coercion. If we are to
: support prototype-based programming $x.meta *must not care* whether
: it has been given a class
Larry Wall wrote:
Of course, there are other words that are somewhat synonymous with
class, Unfortunately sort is already hosed. Maybe kind.
Then evolutionists could make jokes about the K(T) boundary, and
creationists could make jokes about reproducing after their kind.
Some of us could make
On Oct 26, 2005, at 12:05 PM, Larry Wall wrote:
Of course, there are other words that are somewhat synonymous with
class, Unfortunately sort is already hosed. Maybe kind.
Actually kind is used in the Core Calculus for Metaclasses paper
which I brought to the hackathon (not sure if you got
On Wed, Oct 26, 2005 at 09:05:22AM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
Of course, there are other words that are somewhat synonymous with
class, Unfortunately sort is already hosed. Maybe kind.
Maybe we could go with something Linnaean like family or genus
even though their relation to class isn't quite
Larry Wall:
But perhaps it wouldn't be kind.
'caste' wouldn't either.
For inspiraton: type sort class variety brand category breed manner
style nature form hue caste set background stage setting milieu locale
range assortment selection mixture strain suite scenery rank grade
division status
On 10/26/05, Stevan Little [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Oct 26, 2005, at 12:05 PM, Larry Wall wrote:
Of course, there are other words that are somewhat synonymous with
class, Unfortunately sort is already hosed. Maybe kind.
Actually kind is used in the Core Calculus for Metaclasses paper
Stevan Little:
They present an rather interesting view on things, that the
definition of the instance creating portion of a class should be
seperated from the class or kind portion of the class.
Its quality. Its character. Its features. Its face.
--
Grtz, Ruud
Larry Wall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Of course, there are other words that are somewhat synonymous with
class, Unfortunately sort is already hosed. Maybe kind.
Then evolutionists could make jokes about the K(T) boundary, and
creationists could make jokes about reproducing after their kind.
HaloO,
Austin Frank wrote:
Which (sort of) takes us back to TSa's (non)sign-off note from 10/5,
wherein he suggested:
I just can't help it, I love the good work done on this list!
And thanks for spelling the acronym correctly.
The Kindly One of a class beeing the representative like
the
On Wed, Oct 26, 2005 at 12:22:07PM -0400, Stevan Little wrote:
:
: On Oct 26, 2005, at 12:05 PM, Larry Wall wrote:
: Of course, there are other words that are somewhat synonymous with
: class, Unfortunately sort is already hosed. Maybe kind.
:
: Actually kind is used in the Core Calculus for
LW == Larry Wall [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
LW One wants to coin a word like Qlass. Unfortunately qlass is
LW too easy to misread as glass. Oy veh, I'm getting notions of
LW the qlass is half empty for a partially instantiated object.
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
i think you need some immediate
So maybe we can define our terms like this:
type: a completely generic metaterm for any of the following,
and then some.
class: a mutable interface object that manages instances in the
classical way, with covariant derivational properties.
role: an immutable and
On Wed, Oct 26, 2005 at 03:54:35PM -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote:
: So maybe we can define our terms like this:
:
: type: a completely generic metaterm for any of the following,
: and then some.
:
: class: a mutable interface object that manages instances in the
: classical way,
On 10/26/05, Larry Wall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So maybe we can define our terms like this:
type: a completely generic metaterm for any of the following,
and then some.
class: a mutable interface object that manages instances in the
classical way, with covariant
: 3) Aren't classes mutable and roles immutable by default only? Or has
: this changed?
Of course. To change the default for a role, call it a class, and
to change the default for a class, call it a role. :-)
Does this mean that roles are the recommended way to create immutable
classes?
On Wed, 2005-10-26 at 20:29 -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote:
I would prefer to use roles as they're closed by default, leaving
class to be my powertool, if I need the power.
I don't understand this desire; can you explain your reasoning?
(NB: closed here, as I use it, still *does not* correspond to
On 10/26/05, chromatic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, 2005-10-26 at 20:29 -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote:
I would prefer to use roles as they're closed by default, leaving
class to be my powertool, if I need the power.
I don't understand this desire; can you explain your reasoning?
If a role
On 10/26/05, Rob Kinyon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10/26/05, chromatic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, 2005-10-26 at 20:29 -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote:
I would prefer to use roles as they're closed by default, leaving
class to be my powertool, if I need the power.
I don't understand
On Wed, Oct 26, 2005 at 08:48:12PM -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote:
: If a role is an immutable class, that means that its internals cannot
: be changed. Hence, the compiler can trust that it will be the same at
: the end as at the beginning. Which means it's optimized. Which means
: my objects run faster
On Wed, Oct 26, 2005 at 04:56:23PM -0600, Luke Palmer wrote:
: Then ^T $x binds T to the kind of $x. And $x.kind == $y.kind asks
: if two objects are of the same type,
:
: Don't you mean $x.kind eqv $y.kind?
:
: Ugh.
Now that infix::: has come available, maybe I mean:
$x.kind :: $y.kind
On Wed, Oct 26, 2005 at 06:34:48PM -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
: On Wed, Oct 26, 2005 at 04:56:23PM -0600, Luke Palmer wrote:
: : Then ^T $x binds T to the kind of $x. And $x.kind == $y.kind asks
: : if two objects are of the same type,
: :
: : Don't you mean $x.kind eqv $y.kind?
: :
: : Ugh.
:
On Wed, 2005-10-26 at 19:22 -0600, Luke Palmer wrote:
But we find that many programmers make decisions that trade
readability and extensibility for an extra 1% of speed, even when they
are writing a command-line frontend to MPlayer[1]. If those people
are module writers, then we have a bunch
On 10/26/05, Luke Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snip]
Okay, an open class means you can add methods to it, right? So, let's
say you have this class:
class Foo {
method foo() {...}
method bar() {...}
}
And this code:
my Foo $x = Foo.new;
$x.foo();
On Wed, 2005-10-26 at 14:52 -0400, Uri Guttman wrote:
LW == Larry Wall [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
LW One wants to coin a word like Qlass. Unfortunately qlass is
LW too easy to misread as glass. Oy veh, I'm getting notions of
LW the qlass is half empty for a partially instantiated
On Wed, 2005-10-26 at 21:58 -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote:
Plus, the argument is a straw man. Instead of:
class Some::Class is also {
}
you would do:
class My::Version {
does Some::Class;
}
Problem solved.
Don't forget the fun of modifying all existing uses of
On Wed, Oct 26, 2005 at 07:35:05PM -0700, chromatic wrote:
: On Wed, 2005-10-26 at 21:58 -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote:
:
: Plus, the argument is a straw man. Instead of:
:
: class Some::Class is also {
: }
:
: you would do:
:
: class My::Version {
: does Some::Class;
:
On 10/26/05, Rob Kinyon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What about:
class Foo is also {
method foo() { ... }
}
Where the second foo() is no longer what the first foo() did.
Just overwrite the vtable.
Furthermore, let's say you have:
class Bar isa Foo {
method
On Mon, Oct 24, 2005 at 06:33:20AM -0700, Ashley Winters wrote:
: # behavior through prototype -- guessing realistic syntax
: Base.meta.add_method(
: do_it = method ($arg) {
: say doing $arg!;
: });
:
:
: # or, just add it to a single instance
: $x.meta.add_method(
: do_it =
Larry,
On Oct 25, 2005, at 4:37 PM, Larry Wall wrote:
On Mon, Oct 24, 2005 at 06:33:20AM -0700, Ashley Winters wrote:
: # behavior through prototype -- guessing realistic syntax
: Base.meta.add_method(
: do_it = method ($arg) {
: say doing $arg!;
: });
:
:
: # or, just add it to
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