Re: [P6L] Closed Classes Polemic (was Re: What the heck is a submethod (good for))

2005-10-14 Thread chromatic
On Thu, 2005-10-13 at 18:36 -0700, Chip Salzenberg wrote: On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 06:13:09PM -0700, chromatic wrote: I just don't want people who merely write a module or class to be able to prevent people who actually use that module or class from using, extending, or poking around in

Re: What the heck is a submethod (good for)

2005-10-13 Thread Brent 'Dax' Royal-Gordon
Luke Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay, I seriously have to see an example of a submethod in use. Likewise. As far as I've seen, submethods are a kludge wedged in for cases where you're actually calling all the way up the inheritence tree. Personally, I've always thought a cascade method

Re: What the heck is a submethod (good for)

2005-10-13 Thread Matt Fowles
All~ On 10/13/05, Brent 'Dax' Royal-Gordon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Luke Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay, I seriously have to see an example of a submethod in use. Likewise. As far as I've seen, submethods are a kludge wedged in for cases where you're actually calling all the way up

Re: What the heck is a submethod (good for)

2005-10-13 Thread Stevan Little
On Oct 13, 2005, at 9:47 AM, Matt Fowles wrote: On 10/13/05, Brent 'Dax' Royal-Gordon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Luke Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay, I seriously have to see an example of a submethod in use. Likewise. As far as I've seen, submethods are a kludge wedged in for cases

Re: Closed Classes Polemic (was Re: What the heck is a submethod (good for))

2005-10-13 Thread Rob Kinyon
I think this is an opportune time for me to express that I think the ability to close-source a module is important. I love open source, and I couldn't imagine writing anything by myself that I wouldn't share. But in order for Perl to be taken seriously as a commercial client-side language,

Re: Closed Classes Polemic (was Re: What the heck is a submethod (good for))

2005-10-13 Thread John Macdonald
On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 03:01:29PM -0400, Rob Kinyon wrote: I think this is an opportune time for me to express that I think the ability to close-source a module is important. I love open source, and I couldn't imagine writing anything by myself that I wouldn't share. But in order for

Re: Closed Classes Polemic (was Re: What the heck is a submethod (good for))

2005-10-13 Thread Yuval Kogman
On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 13:08:27 -0700, chromatic wrote: Closed classes should not exist. At least, they should only exist if the person *running* Perl 6 wants them to exist -- never if merely the class writer wants to close them. In theory I agree, and I hope that will be the defacto way of

Re: Closed Classes Polemic (was Re: What the heck is a submethod (good for))

2005-10-13 Thread chromatic
On Fri, 2005-10-14 at 02:18 +0200, Yuval Kogman wrote: On Wed, Oct 12, 2005 at 13:08:27 -0700, chromatic wrote: Closed classes should not exist. At least, they should only exist if the person *running* Perl 6 wants them to exist -- never if merely the class writer wants to close them.

Re: [P6L] Closed Classes Polemic (was Re: What the heck is a submethod (good for))

2005-10-13 Thread Chip Salzenberg
On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 06:13:09PM -0700, chromatic wrote: I just don't want people who merely write a module or class to be able to prevent people who actually use that module or class from using, extending, or poking around in it. Sounds kind of like Linus's opinion of close-source modules.

Re: What the heck is a submethod (good for)

2005-10-12 Thread Damian Conway
Luke wrote: Okay, I seriously have to see an example of a submethod in use. class Driver::Qualified { method drive { print Brrrm brrrm! } } class Driver::Disqualified is Driver { submethod drive { die .name(), not allowed to drive

Re: What the heck is a submethod (good for)

2005-10-12 Thread Yuval Kogman
On Thu, Oct 13, 2005 at 05:42:31 +1000, Damian Conway wrote: Luke wrote: Okay, I seriously have to see an example of a submethod in use. class Driver::Qualified { method drive { print Brrrm brrrm! } } class Driver::Disqualified is Driver

Closed Classes Polemic (was Re: What the heck is a submethod (good for))

2005-10-12 Thread chromatic
On Wed, 2005-10-12 at 21:50 +0200, Yuval Kogman wrote: This has even more implications with closed classes to which you don't have source level access, and if this can happen it will happen - i'm pretty sure that some commercial database vendors would release closed source DBDs, for example.

Re: Closed Classes Polemic (was Re: What the heck is a submethod (good for))

2005-10-12 Thread Rob Kinyon
On 10/12/05, chromatic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, 2005-10-12 at 21:50 +0200, Yuval Kogman wrote: This has even more implications with closed classes to which you don't have source level access, and if this can happen it will happen - i'm pretty sure that some commercial database

Re: Closed Classes Polemic (was Re: What the heck is a submethod (good for))

2005-10-12 Thread Luke Palmer
On 10/12/05, Rob Kinyon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Plus, I can't imagine that a reverser for Parrot code is going to be that hard to write. Disassembling register machine code is significantly more difficult than disassembling stack machine code. That said, if the level of introspective