Re: r25102 - docs/Perl6/Spec

2009-02-01 Thread Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH

On 2009 Jan 30, at 11:30, Larry Wall wrote:

So I'm open to suggestions for what we ought to call that envelope
if we don't call it the prelude or the perlude.  Locale is bad,
environs is bad, context is bad...the wrapper?  But we have dynamic
wrappers already, so that's bad.  Maybe the setting, like a jewel?
That has a nice static feeling about it at least, as well as a feeling
of surrounding.

Or we could go with a more linguistic contextual metaphor.  Argot,
lingo, whatever...



setting, frame, stage, neighborhood, gestalt?

--
brandon s. allbery [solaris,freebsd,perl,pugs,haskell] allb...@kf8nh.com
system administrator [openafs,heimdal,too many hats] allb...@ece.cmu.edu
electrical and computer engineering, carnegie mellon universityKF8NH




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Re: r25102 - docs/Perl6/Spec

2009-01-31 Thread Nicholas Clark
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 11:11:42AM -0600, Patrick R. Michaud wrote:
 On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 08:30:25AM -0800, Larry Wall wrote:
  So anyway, just because other languages call it a prelude doesn't
  mean that we have to.  Perl is the tail that's always trying to
  wag the dog...
  
  What is the sound of one tail wagging?
 
 For my dog Sally, the sound of one tail wagging is regularly
 used to indicate that she believes I'm in desperate need of taking
 her on a walk.

An ailment that she believes you suffer from frequently? At least several times
a day?

whack, whack, whack is the sound of Chili wagging her tail, if a wall
happens to get to close. The black alarm clock sometimes can go off before
6am, if she determines that it's already time for breakfast (or exercise).

Chili: http://chili.pavlovic.at/2007_09/medium/DSC00035_medium.html

Nicholas Clark


Re: r25102 - docs/Perl6/Spec

2009-01-30 Thread Carl Mäsak
Mark (), Moritz (), Larry via commit bot ():
 +PERL# Lexical symbols in the standard perlude

 Did you mean prelude instead?

 I took the quotation marks to indicate an intentional
 misspelling/coinage:  perl + prelude = perlude.

At which point one might ask oneself whether it is more important that
the synopses be amusing and punny, or that they clearly specify what
is expected of a conforming Perl 6 implementation.

Now, just so you don't think I'm all cranky and humour-impaired: I got
the pun, I smiled a bit at it -- but I already know what a standard
prelude is. Those who don't are going to be confused in two ways when
they read the above, making the explanatory comment essentially
useless.

// Carl


Re: r25102 - docs/Perl6/Spec

2009-01-30 Thread Larry Wall
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 10:49:13AM +0100, Carl Mäsak wrote:
: Mark (), Moritz (), Larry via commit bot ():
:  +PERL# Lexical symbols in the standard perlude
: 
:  Did you mean prelude instead?
: 
:  I took the quotation marks to indicate an intentional
:  misspelling/coinage:  perl + prelude = perlude.
: 
: At which point one might ask oneself whether it is more important that
: the synopses be amusing and punny, or that they clearly specify what
: is expected of a conforming Perl 6 implementation.
: 
: Now, just so you don't think I'm all cranky and humour-impaired: I got
: the pun, I smiled a bit at it -- but I already know what a standard
: prelude is. Those who don't are going to be confused in two ways when
: they read the above, making the explanatory comment essentially
: useless.

You must understand that part of the reason I wrote that is to
remind folks that we're *not* talking about a standard prelude here.
The prelude metaphor says that it's something that comes before your
program, but that's not what we want.  We want something that comes
outside your program, that is, a lexical scope that *surrounds* the
file scope.  We don't have a good word for that: circumlude?  ambilude?

So that's why I said perlude.  Well, that, and it was a pun. :)

The concept here is that any lexical scope can parse a token that
says snapshot me here at this depth, and then there's a mechanism
for inserting the new main program in that lexical scope at startup.
It not only gives us the standard outerlude, but allows us to start
up the parser in any language we care to specify by snapshot name.
Special cases might even have their own switches, which is why S19
talks about implementing -n and -p by substituting a different prelude.

But then it's not just a prelude, because it's supplying an implicit
loop around the main code as part of the definition of the language
you're using.

So I'm open to suggestions for what we ought to call that envelope
if we don't call it the prelude or the perlude.  Locale is bad,
environs is bad, context is bad...the wrapper?  But we have dynamic
wrappers already, so that's bad.  Maybe the setting, like a jewel?
That has a nice static feeling about it at least, as well as a feeling
of surrounding.

Or we could go with a more linguistic contextual metaphor.  Argot,
lingo, whatever...

So anyway, just because other languages call it a prelude doesn't
mean that we have to.  Perl is the tail that's always trying to
wag the dog...

What is the sound of one tail wagging?

Larry


Re: r25102 - docs/Perl6/Spec

2009-01-30 Thread Mark J. Reed
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Larry Wall la...@wall.org wrote:
  We want something that comes
 outside your program, that is, a lexical scope that *surrounds* the
 file scope.  We don't have a good word for that: circumlude?  ambilude?
[...]
 Or we could go with a more linguistic contextual metaphor.  Argot,
 lingo, whatever...

If we're being all linguistical, how about circumlect?

-- 
Mark J. Reed markjr...@gmail.com


Re: r25102 - docs/Perl6/Spec

2009-01-30 Thread Jon Lang
Larry Wall wrote:
 So I'm open to suggestions for what we ought to call that envelope
 if we don't call it the prelude or the perlude.  Locale is bad,
 environs is bad, context is bad...the wrapper?  But we have dynamic
 wrappers already, so that's bad.  Maybe the setting, like a jewel?
 That has a nice static feeling about it at least, as well as a feeling
 of surrounding.

 Or we could go with a more linguistic contextual metaphor.  Argot,
 lingo, whatever...

 So anyway, just because other languages call it a prelude doesn't
 mean that we have to.  Perl is the tail that's always trying to
 wag the dog...

 What is the sound of one tail wagging?

whoosh, whoosh.

I tend to like setting, because it makes me think of the setting of
a play, in which the actors (i.e., objects) perform their assigned
roles in following the script.

-- 
Jonathan Dataweaver Lang


Re: r25102 - docs/Perl6/Spec

2009-01-30 Thread Patrick R. Michaud
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 08:30:25AM -0800, Larry Wall wrote:
 So anyway, just because other languages call it a prelude doesn't
 mean that we have to.  Perl is the tail that's always trying to
 wag the dog...
 
 What is the sound of one tail wagging?

For my dog Sally, the sound of one tail wagging is regularly
used to indicate that she believes I'm in desperate need of taking
her on a walk.

Pm


Re: r25102 - docs/Perl6/Spec

2009-01-29 Thread Mark J. Reed
I took the quotation marks to indicate an intentional
misspelling/coinage:  perl + prelude = perlude.




On 1/29/09, Moritz Lenz mor...@faui2k3.org wrote:
 pugs-comm...@feather.perl6.nl wrote:
 +PERL# Lexical symbols in the standard perlude

 Did you mean prelude instead?

 Moritz


-- 
Sent from Gmail for mobile | mobile.google.com

Mark J. Reed markjr...@gmail.com


Re: r25102 - docs/Perl6/Spec

2009-01-28 Thread Moritz Lenz
pugs-comm...@feather.perl6.nl wrote:
 +PERL# Lexical symbols in the standard perlude

Did you mean prelude instead?

Moritz