[OT] Re: Perl Doesn't Suck
> "schwern" == schwern <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: schwern> Sun doesn't give out its JDK source code freely, they schwern> have all sorts of restrictions. If I wanted to port the schwern> JDK I can do it, but I need special permission from Sun schwern> to distribute it. This Sucks. Especially considering schwern> that you could go through a whole lot of work and then schwern> have Sun deny you. Speaking as someone with feet firmly in both camps (I'm a Blackdown member and the Debian maintainer for the jdk and some of the largest perl modules in that distribution), IMNSHO the fatal assumption made by millions of people is that Java is OpenSource just because it's a *language*. It isn't. Get over that expectation and life becomes simpler. Just because there's a Fortran or a COBOL standard doesn't make it any easier to write compilers and run-time support from scratch for those languages, regardless of platform. And, no, no one will help support you in this endeavour. That's where things like Kaffe and Japhar find themselves. Perl's great blessing is also it's great curse; there's a single implementation and that *implementation* happens to be OpenSource. Try writing a second Perl implementation from scratch. Were something dreadful to happen to Larry and his estate chose to change the licensing terms of the current *implementation*, where would Perl6 go? Or even Perl5 for that matter? -- Stephen "Farcical aquatic ceremonies are no basis for a system of government!"
Re: how the FreeBSD project gets its "core members"
> "Kurt" == Kurt D Starsinic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Kurt> Come come, Stephen. Don't start a flamewar. We all Kurt> know that Perl's threading model lacks fairings . . . . Moi? I'm not the one who mentioned the f-word. :) -- Stephen "Good idea, O Lord!"... "'Course it's a good idea!"
Re: how the FreeBSD project gets its "core members"
> "Adam" == Adam Turoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Adam> http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/misc.html#AEN4823 The entry below that is even more apropos. -- Stephen "And what do we burn apart from witches?"... "More witches!"
Re: how the FreeBSD project gets its "core members"
> "Jean-Louis" == Jean-Louis Leroy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Jean-Louis> I know that any discussion I hold in anything other Jean-Louis> than French costs me extra efforts. If the discussion Jean-Louis> is an argument, held in English, with/against a native Jean-Louis> English speaker, I start with an obvious handicap. If Jean-Louis> the argument becomes aggressive or literary, the Jean-Louis> handicap can become quite huge. OTOH, all core perl development has occured in English to this point. How have non-native speakers faired so far? I know there are a number of significant contributors to perl for whom English is possibly not even their second language. -- Stephen "She turned me into a newt!"... "Really?"... "I got better."
Re: how the FreeBSD project gets its "core members"
> "Adam" == Adam Turoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Adam> No worries. These BSD guys are onto something. Here's Adam> another report from daemonnews, talking about the election Adam> process in more detail. Apparently, FreeBSD was getting Adam> stagnant, and this election is a way for them to get new Adam> blood and more community involvement in the project. That is about the most sensible process I've read for the "management" of a OSS project (perhaps after the Debian model, but Debian isn't a project and you could argue that it isn't managed either). One question: how does an individual become a committer in the first place? This question becomes of upmost significance to folks like David Grove :) -- Stephen "Good idea, O Lord!"... "'Course it's a good idea!"
Re: Continued RFC process
> "Dan" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Dan> what happens if for some reason I turn into a raving nutter Dan> and won't go? What you mean "will", Kimosabi? :) -- Stephen "Farcical aquatic ceremonies are no basis for a system of government!"
Re: Continued RFC process
> "Dan" == Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Dan> A better analogy is that Larry's the Bishop and Chief Dan> Architect, while the rest of us are engineers, sectional Dan> architects, artisans, craftsmen, journeymen, and apprentices, Dan> working to build up a cathedral. (And yes, I do mean this Dan> analogy in the way you likely think I do, amongst other ways) Ooohh, Freemasonry comes to Perl. Can I make up the handshake? :) -- Stephen "And what do we burn apart from witches?"... "More witches!"
Re: Continued RFC process
> "David" == David Grove <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: David> If the "public say" is limited to an RFC freeforall, then David> closed off to let the elite go to work, then the whole David> "public say" policy is a farce an order of magnitude worse David> than the "great perl merge". Either the public has a voice, David> or it doesn't. Sorry, I disagree. If I'm building a house I don't sit there and critique the way the carpenter hammers nails. I do, however, make sure the architect and I understand what the finished building will look like. The lack of difference between perl and Perl has been the greatest cause of unease, disquiet and the disenfranchisement of parts of the Perl community because it's impossible to talk about one without involving the other. Clearer seperation of language and implementation with clear specifications and a public process for the former is sufficient for this to be avoided for Perl6. It is not necessary to allow everyone the ability to comment on every phase *as it happens*. -- Stephen "Good idea, O Lord!"... "'Course it's a good idea!"
Re: Undermining the Perl Language
> "David" == David Grove <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: David> This country (apologies to non-US citizens) was not founded David> on committee action, but on rebellion. I hope the irony of a proponent of non-profit motives holding up a rebellion that was exclusively profit-motive based in support of their arguments is not lost on other non-US members of this list. -- Stephen "And what do we burn apart from witches?"... "More witches!"
Re: *REALLY*, it's getting close here...
>>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen Zander <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Stephen> Not necessarily. Nat recently posted about his Stephen> misinterpretation of Larry's plans but said he still Stephen> planned to lean on people to finish by October 1 Stephen> otherwise they'd never get done. Of course, I'm probably full of crap too... -- Stephen (who just read perl6-announce for the first time in three days) "Run away!.. Run away!.." %
Re: *REALLY*, it's getting close here...
> "Simon" == Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Simon> Hm. So this means there's no point me submitting anything Simon> now, because it's not going to have time to be discussed Simon> and frozen? G-r-reat. Not necessarily. Nat recently posted about his misinterpretation of Larry's plans but said he still planned to lean on people to finish by October 1 otherwise they'd never get done. Type fast just the same though -- Stephen "There are those who call me... Tim"
Re: code repository
> "Bradley" == Bradley M Kuhn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Bradley> On a personal note, I would not be able to participate in Bradley> Perl6 development if doing so required that I use Bradley> perforce, because I have personal ethical beliefs that Bradley> prohibit me from using free software. I may not be the ^ non- Bradley> only one. I'm sure everyone understood what you meant but it's not what you said. -- Stephen (who's going back to his pedant corner now) "She turned me into a newt!"... "Really?"... "I got better."
