Behdad,
Thanks so much for this post. I've been wanting so much to see a
discussion on this topic for the longest time!
As usual, I'm better at providing more questions than answers.
> The other way, latest publication of The Persian Academy of
> Language and Literature
Is this available online? I have been searching for some authority on good
word-processing style such as where to use the ZWNJ. (Is it officially
called faasileh-ye majaazi?? Who invented the term nim-faasileh?)
> separate Persian sub-words (what are they
> called in Persian linguistics?)
mi- = prefix
-haa = suffix
Persian lacks (Turkish abounds in) the 3rd kind = infix
They are all in the category called "affix".
However, this isn't really a linguistic or grammatical topic, more like a
matter for good word-processing STYLE because not all affixes are
reflected in the written language. For ex, you put a ZWNJ after "mi-" but
not after negative "na-". Also, the question doesn't really come up if the
letter in question doesn't even have a connecting form. (But this may be a
big deal in machine-reading situations.)
> outcome was wonderful, but the problem was there in words like
> {zedde-aab}, or as in my original example {zedde-jaasoosi}.
What was the problem? I should think the ZWNJ should be ok there or at
least not act differently than your other examples.
> So I decided that, we shouldn't use ZWNJ for this purpose.
I have not understood what is wrong with the ZWNJ and why you need
something different.
Please explain [in simple terms!}
> The lost character that I'm goin' to introduce you, is U+202F.
> U+202F earn its respect from the fact that is sitted by the other
> formatting characters used in Persian, in my opinion. Oh, I
> really forgot to tell you it's name: NARROW NO-BREAK SPACE.
> Isn't it what we want? It's in the second Formatting characters
> region of the U+2000 page, along with LS, PS, LRE, RLE, PDF, LRO,
> and RLO, all used in Persian text, isn't it amasing?
I would sure like to hear an example where each would be used. In fact, I
have long been trying to figure out where you would use ZERO WIDTH JOINER
in Persian. Can you please give an example of a real word where this would
come up?
Apparently ZWNJ, ZWJ, etc are even used in English language computing. I
can't imagine where except in certain mark up situations.
> "General Punctuation"; means it's a character with almost no
> known usage and origin!
These are the trickiest things and the least documented. I've been having
so many problems with spaces in Persian computing. Even little old
sometimes confuses my html editor and throws me into EN mode when
I'm trying to type in FA mode, simply from hitting the space bar. I've
often wondered if there's a Persian version of
Maybe it's one of your "no known usage and origin" characters!
> * Unlike ZWNJ, it holds some piece of semantics.
I don't get you here. Just the use or non-use of ZWNJ has semantic value.
Like you may want to use ZWNJ for khaaneh-haa but not use ZWNJ for kuhha
to indicate "heh-ye gheyr-malfuz" and "heh-ye malfuz" respectively. Are
you saying your replacement for ZWNJ does something more??
> it makes the difference between {khaan-haaye} and
> {khaane-i}. In my own opinion the former should be
> written as {khaan-haa-ye}, because the {haaye} itself
> can be read as {haay-e} or {haa-ye}. Don't you agree?
I'm not 100% sure I understand here but it sounds like you're trying to
introduce *language reform* here rather than type Persian. If there are
ambiguities in the written language, that may not be something the word
processor should delve into, IMHO :)
> Well, this my latest discovery, I know I will have a busy INBOX
> today, but I like it.
ok, you said it here!
BTW, I noticed in later versions of Word they've gotten rid of ZWNJ and
ZWJ in the special characters and now have "No-Width Optional Break" and
"No-Width Non Break". Is this just a name change or what? They all seem to
function in the same way. Any guesses as to why they've made this
"improvement"?
Again, thanks for bringing up this topic. When I first started out, no
one I asked even KNEW what this funny space I was asking about was. A
quick perusal of Iranian websites led me to believe that it was being
phased out (just like "heh+hamzeh" hehe!) and it took months and months
before I discovered I could type alt + 0 + 157 on my key pad and get this
space and then I finally found ZWNJ and could commence typing but what a
nightmarish hell I had to go through! I lost a lot of friends in the
process!!
-Connie
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