Re: Personal names survey
On Sat, 19 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: we are *specifying* a single way to do things. Why the 2 calendars then? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Personal names survey
On Thu, 17 Jun 2004, Ali A. Khanban wrote: Sure. No argument about that. ye badal az kasre is used, as we all know, when the first word ends in aa, oo, unpronounced Heh, ... Ok, I'm going to update my website with info on marking the ezaafe one of these days. I'll submit it for flame-testing when done. Hang on for that. BTW, talking about unpronounced Heh, recently I found out that in the first year of school, they don't call it like that any more. They call it e-ye aakher. I believe in other languages (maybe Kazakh??) there is some Unicode debate going on right now about this letter which can appear in the middle of a word in those languages. This may be part of the ae problem. I'm not sure. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Personal names survey
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: I don't see any zillions, hardly a handul of them for your two examples. Compare with... errr.. I meant on the internet there are zillions. I chose only two which is now two more than the total you admit to having seen in your entire life. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Locale requirement of Persian in Iran, first public draft
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004, Ali A Khanban wrote: Well, that has the same author(!), so it doesn't count. Do a google search for pashto perso-arabic to see that many authors think Pashto is written in the Perso-Arabic script. Then do a google search for pashto arabic script and you'll see with just a quick glance that most further explain that it is *modified* Arabic script or called *Perso-Arabic.* If you're writing in English, you'd better not say simply Arabic script. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Personal names survey
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Come on Connie, you're still to provide a real example, from the books or streets whatever. The streets stuff was a joke and I'm afraid I led Ordak on--no pun intended-- a wild-goose chase, (sorry!) but here are some from published books: http://students.washington.edu/irina/PNRahimEM.jpg http://students.washington.edu/irina/PNNaaserEKh.jpg http://students.washington.edu/irina/PNMasumehYeM.jpg -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Personal names survey
On Mon, 14 Jun 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: don't pronounce them, but I agree that there are times that we do and there should be some trick in there. Still looking for the trick. ok, please figure out when you do and when you don't say the exact same name. That's what I'm after more than anything! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Locale requirement of Persian in Iran, first public draft
Hi Michael again after a long time, You've unfortunately been CC'd in the middle of a conversation on *locale requirements* not unicode level encoding. You are correct and encouraged to put Persian in with Arabic for unicode purposes. At the level of the current conversation, however, modern standard Persian is written in the *Perso-Arabic script.* Urdu is also written in the Perso-Arabic script. (Urdu is NOT written in the Perso-Arabic-Urdu script.) Arabic is written in the Arabic script. Various North African languages and dialects are written in a modified Arabic script. Please don't consider the letter Beh. Think about the Yeh, the Keheh, numbers 4,5,6, Heh+Hamzeh Above, ZWNJ, some punctuation, sorting. I'm not talking about calligraphic styles here. It is ok to just say Arabic script if you are simply differentiating it from Japanese and Latin. But at the level of Locale specs, you need to be more precise so as to reflect the additions and modifications of the original Arabic script from which it was derived. Since this locale information is being written in Persian, it can be assumed that the Persian readers know the script they are reading the info in has some additions and modifications. However, for an internatinal audience, (not the unicode level), it is necessary to make it clear that modern Persian is not written in the same exact script as modern Arabic. I don't think it is *too much* wishful thinking that non-Persian experts will want / need to consult this document. Again, you got dragged into something without context. That's why Im not replying to you point-by-point. -Connie On Sun, 13 Jun 2004, Michael Everson wrote: At 15:43 +0430 2004-06-13, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: I wish to restate my position. I'm CC-ing Michael Everson, a Unicode expert in script naming. Michael, would you please tell us if Connie is right here? On Sun, 2004-06-13 at 00:49, C Bobroff wrote: Yes, all those script are called Arabic in scientific circles. No, the others are, in scientific circles said to be in Perso-Arabic script. Not since the 19th century. You can also say a modified form of the Arabic script but that is what is meant by Perso-Arabic script. Just Arabic script only applies to the Arabic language. This is not correct. What Ms Bobroff is doing is confusing character and glyph, I believe. It us true that the Arabic script has many variant styles, but this does not mean that those styles are or should be encoded as different characters. The ARABIC LETTER BEH which is used in Arabic, Persian, Urdu, Pashto, Sindhi, Kurdish, Kashmiri, Malay, Balochi, Uzbek, Kazakh, Uighur, etc. is the SAME intrinsic character in all of them. It has right-to-left directionality. It has a nominal, initial, medial, and final form which connects to other letters. Arabic script can be written or otherwise displayed in a number of styles, such as Kufi, Nastaliq, Naskh, and Maghrebi. But all varieties are ways of writing the same essential characters, and because of that, it is correct to speak of only one script. -- Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * * http://www.evertype.com ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Locale requirement of Persian in Iran, first public draft (fwd)
(I'm forwarding this on behalf of someone with mailer problems.) -- Forwarded message -- Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2004 12:58:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Arash Zeini [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Connie Bobroff [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Locale requirement of Persian in Iran, first public draft In a message dated Sunday 13 June 2004 04:43, Michael Everson wrote: Yes, all those script are called Arabic in scientific circles. No, the others are, in scientific circles said to be in Perso-Arabic script. Not since the 19th century. You can also say a modified form of the Arabic script but that is what is meant by Perso-Arabic script. Just Arabic script only applies to the Arabic language. This is not correct. Hi Connie, This is Arash Zeini. I have a problem with my SMTP server and hence can not send email from my regular account. So I am not posting this to the ML, but feel free to forward my comment below it to the list. I have not been following the discussion very tightly, but I think that Mr. Everson misunderstood the context of the discussion. I can confirm that you are right. In linguistic circles Perso-Arabic script is used to refer to the modified Arabic script used in Iran to write Farsi (Persian). Greetings, Arash __ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Personal names survey
On Sun, 13 Jun 2004, Elnaz Sarbar wrote: They are hard because they have really never seen anyone puts Kasre in personal names. Neither do I. It is sometimes pronounced but almost never written. OK, a sane person enters. Since you have at least *heard* it, please see if you can find a pattern as to WHEN it is said. Really, the speech-to-text people may thank you. For example, how is it that the same person, in the same speech will say, Ahmad Shamlu mord. Then a few seconds later say, Ahmad-e Shamlu, nevisandeh-ye borzorg... What are the conditions involved? I suspect it follows strict natural laws of linguistics, and of course influenced by mood and style. I just want to know what they are! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: OT: On computing, in Persian
On Sun, 13 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: used a really weird language that may be interesting for some members here. Very weird indeed! BTW, what's with this new usage of replacing Peh with Yeh. Do we not have enough Yeh problems as it is? http://www.sharghnewspaper.com/830323/idea.htm#s68703 -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Personal names survey
On Sun, 13 Jun 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You would say Omar Khayyam and also say Hafez-e Shirazi. Hehe. I've recently seen Omar-e Khayyam in the middle of some text (not on the decorative front cover) written with Kasre. Too bad I forgot where it was... -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Personal names survey
On Sun, 13 Jun 2004, Ordak D. Coward wrote: Rule 1: The following rules only apply when first name is followed by last name Most scientific. Rule 2: Do not add ksare ezafe at the end of names foreign origin, even if they come from a Persian speaking country, e.g. Ahmad Shah Masoud. Evidence from the streets does not support you. Rule 3: Do not add kasre ezaafe at the end of first names ending with vowels, e.g., Ali, Minoo, Saba, Reza, Kaveh. However, adding a YEH + KASRE is sometimes done only for dramatic effects. For example, pronounce Ali Heydari as written, but it is acceptable (but not customary) to pronounce as Ali Ye Heydari. Yeh+kasre is ok in non-dramatic situations, too. You're definitely correct about the Alif-ending first names. Rule 4: Do pronounce a weak, almost unnoticeable kasre ezafe at the end of first names ending with a consonant. Ezafeh in general (not just in names) is not allowed to be stressed ever. This is one of the properties of the Ezafeh. Nice of you to work on the problem, Ordak. It seems the same people who saved a lot of money not making a Persian font also saved even more money by not making a complete documented linguistic description of Persian nor any [good quality] textbooks and [complete] grammars. Great that so much money was saved! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Locale requirement of Persian in Iran, first public draft
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: Many other things may also be optional (like how to write ordibehesht, zi-hajje, or hejdah), but we are only allowing one, There is no comparison between these and the personal name topic. You are giving incomplete and wrong information. And you have every right to do so too so don't let me stop you. However, now that I've pointed it out, I know that even though I'm not going to say another word on this topic, you'll fix it. How do I know? I've come to know your ways very well after so many years. You'll see. all the time. Sorry! Then you need to define all the time. I don't see a Kasra in the author's name on this book that is sitting on my desk. Well, all the time does not, in fact, mean all the time in English. It just means all the time. You know, a synonym for sometimes! Why do you have to always be so hard on the poor molla from Qazvin? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Locale requirement of Persian in Iran, first public draft
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: Arabic? For example Pashto or Ordu? Yes, all those script are called Arabic in scientific circles. No, the others are, in scientific circles said to be in Perso-Arabic script. You can also say a modified form of the Arabic script but that is what is meant by Perso-Arabic script. Just Arabic script only applies to the Arabic language. Your Persian-knowing readers of the draft will know what you mean if you just say khatt-e `arabi however, I recommend you put Perso-Arabic script (in English) or modified Arabic script so that if the draft gets translated into some other language, the people less familiar with Persian will understand and that will make its way back into the translation. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: khaat e Farsi
On Fri, 11 Jun 2004, Ordak D. Coward wrote: I am confused! [snip] Gang, I'm afraid this conversation is like a boat which has come loose from its moorings and is now lost on the high seas straying where the four winds will take it. I believe Roozbeh, while typing the document was attempting to translate Perso-Arabic script into Persian. Not an easy job. I recommend for the final draft, you say khatt-e 'arabi and then in parentheses or footnote, just put the English (Perso-Arabic script). I don't think that for the purposes of this draft you need to get into the history of the calligraphic styles and orthographic conventions. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: khatt e Farsi -- was khaat e Farsi
On Fri, 11 Jun 2004, Ali A Khanban wrote: The first time we tried to approach High Council of Informatics showraaye aaliye anformaatik to discuss a Unicode proposal, they were against using Unicode, just because the letters were named Arabic letter They were of course mistaken, and it took a long time and effort to achieve their support. Really? Amazing story. Thank you for the bit of history. Well, if it is too unpalatable to say khatt-e 'arabi, then just say Perso-Arabic script in English or don't say it at all. I don't think there is too much danger of people thinking we're speaking of Cuneiform (khatt-e mikhi) which is what in other contexts may spring to mind if you say khatt-e farsi. By all means, get the draft written so that the technical problems may be solved! I think Behdad is sitting somewhere right now wondering if he should add this topic to the Persian vs. Farsi war! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Locale requirement of Persian in Iran, first public draft
I just got this calendar from Iran in the mail: http://students.washington.edu/irina/cal.jpg I guess this orientation is more popular than I thought. I find it too hard to use since I'm used to the more common arrangement (i.e. across the top and then top to bottom) but obviously people do like and prefer this other way. Good thing you included both in the draft! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Locale requirement of Persian in Iran, first public draft
On Wed, 9 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 08:42, C Bobroff wrote: No kidding, you really typed all those Hamzeh's all by yourself?? Yes. Why are you wondering? Never mind! I don't want to appear as if complaining! And my next question is going to be, when? I'm not sure. It really depends on the mood or the speed of speaking. Ok, I think that's as precise as we're going to get for now. I admit, I hear it more in slow, deliberate, formal speeches than in everyday conversation. (Besides Behdad's example of usage in response to which?) And it's definitely seen in written form, especially on book covers. I think I better scan one to keep on hand! That should keep you busy for a while! You were wrong. ;) Yes, I guess so! ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
On Tue, 8 Jun 2004, Hooman Mehr wrote: Correction: Found the Reader! You certainly did! I'm glad I asked. Go to: http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html Select: English (Middle Eastern) Select your platform (It is available for Windows and Mac OS X) and the rest is as it should be. It forced me to first remove my more recent non-Middle Eastern version but I don't mind, it's worth it! Connie, try it with the PDFs that you have to see which one works. It works great on this one, for example: http://persianacademy.ir/books/Dastoor-e%20khatt.pdf The text can be copied and pasted into Notepad with no directional problems. However, it still does not work on many such as: http://www.farsiweb.info/locale/locale-0.6.pdf What ends up in Notepad as only garbage. Obviously, it matters what software was used to create the PDF and I can't tell from the properties info what the Persian Academy used. Also can you come up with a cleaner version of this conversation an put it on your pages? OK! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Locale requirement of Persian in Iran, first public draft
On Mon, 7 Jun 2004, Peyman wrote: We don't write Ezafe in noun phrase constituents; There is a big difference between *we never write* and *we sometimes write*. Obviously, you DO mark the ezafeh in certain situations. In this case, if the draft says says that one may not mark the ezafeh to connect given and family name, then either that's a new rule or the draft is wrong. I see that written, especially for authors on book titles all time. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Kasre Ezafe in proper names, Was Re: Locale requirement of Persian in Iran
On Wed, 9 Jun 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Ok, as I said in another mail, you say behdaad-e esfahbod when you want to differentiate from behdaad-e pournader. Just that. Akh! banging head on computer Good night, I'm going homeMaybe a sane person who knows the -e is used all the time in names will reply during the night. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 08:20, C Bobroff wrote: I just thought the typist had used MS Word, then exported to Excel and then to some publishing program. I'm sure both MS Word and MS Excel would crash under the weight of so much text. Who said they didn't break it up into smaller files? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Mon, 7 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: Who is to decide about what is bad? Are we professional linguists or dictionary writers? We can we directed by others to edit. I'm just saying the online version has this potential, unlike the printed version. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Mon, 7 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: And managed all the numbering and sorting and all that by hand? They would have done that BEFORE exporting to their publishing software. Now, do you have any more questions before [hopefully] heading off to bed? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: [History] My Story, part 1 (1236 words)
Thank you, Hooman. [BTW, some of you may want to note the spelling of Hooman] Part 1 was great! I especially appreciated the Pre-history section in Tabriz. As you know the Iranian Autobiography as a genre is very rare so what you're giving us is a real treat. I know it's difficult to expose yourself like this, but I can only encourage you to keep providing the whole story and not hold back any details. In fact, I may have to keep a copy for my virtual Persian Computing Museum. (I just received my first printed Arabic Yeh exhibit this morning as a matter of fact.) In a few years, kiddies will sit down to type Persian and not realize how lucky they are. I've also all along been noting the painful story of those who brought printing and the press to Iran in their day. Please do continue the story as you have time and inclination. And thank you for getting after the other old-timers as well. I've been trying to tell them how important it is to document every detail for years! This is truly one of THE MOST IMPORTANT threads on this list. Thank you again and again for sharing your story! -Connie On Mon, 7 Jun 2004, Hooman Mehr wrote: Hi everybody, especially Connie, First of all, apologies for not being around for a while. I was kind of busy with miscellaneous obligations... I promised Connie to write something about the history of my involvement with Persian computing. This is the first part in a series of posts. It acts as an introduction to establish the context and background. As such, it is not fully about Persian computing per se. OK, here begins my story as a life in the history of Persian computing: 1. Pre-history In the early eighties, during my high school days in Tabriz, I was obsessed with thinking about the meaning of life and my mission in life, playing with cats, studying geometry and modern physics (Einstein, Heisenberg, etc.), shooting with my air rifle, throwing knives at any wooden target, touring the city on my bicycle, building shelves and cabinets for the family and friends, building and tweaking hand-made Hi-Fi for my sister, building small steam engines with my cousin, trying to build gunpowder-propelled model rockets with my best friend, and other weird stuff. Those days I was totally unaware of girls, my appearance and my (lack of) social behavior. Back then, I barely knew computers existed, they where completely absent from my world.This period of my life coincides with the period of war, full-scale embargo, terrorist attacks, and the government treating anybody who wasn't an insider like the enemy. I barely thought about what career I would like to pursue, but was inclined to become a mechanical engineer. Then I graduated high school in 1984 and immediately took the university entrance exam and landed in Sharif University of Technology as a student of civil engineering. It was quite a surprise and disappointment for me. I disliked civil engineering, but I did a foolish thing and put it as my first choice because of the pressure from teachers, friends and family. I was quite confident that I wouldnt be accepted in Sharif University. I was really surprised when I learned that I had the 14th grade for the position. I expected the others to do far better than me. So, when I arrived at my dorm room, I wasn't very enthusiastic. What I found there didn't help either. I found a stinky mess in the room with three depressed guys who were hit by the Cultural Revolution and closing of the universities for almost two years, not to mention mostly arbitrary changes to the course syllabus and the fact that the room was designed for two students not four. I was dragging my foot when it came to studying civil engineering and was in the verge of dropping out of school and going to the war front when I discovered the joy of programming and computers. It was the second semester and we had a basic programming course on FORTRAN 66. We were punching cards and putting our deck of cards in the queue to be batch processed by Control Data CDC-6000 mainframe remaining from the seventies. We would get the printout of the program source and its output a few hours later. All of my programs ran correctly in the first try and my teacher kept all of my projects as outstanding examples of good solutions and stylish programming. He kept asking me whether I had prior experience with computers and refused to believe that I didn't. After that course, my life was changed forever. I started spending most of my time in the computer science department, computer lab, and its library. I continued the rest of my days in the university barely passing my courses in civil engineering and focusing my energy on programming and computer science instead. For those who don't know: I didn't have the choice of changing my study, because of the very limited capacities and the sheer resistance of the authorities thinking they are saving me from ruining my
RE: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Sun, 6 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: MS Word?!! You really believe a professional publisher can prepare Persian print quality books in MS Word?! I just thought the typist had used MS Word, then exported to Excel and then to some publishing program. That was in response to Behdad mentioning typing. I didn't think there would be any typing involved. Don't know about Zarnegar. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Sun, 6 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: new parts are not comparable in quality to Moin's work, with wrong etymologies, bad definitions, etc. That would be a problem. However, the bad entries can be edited out as they are discovered. I don't agree. I believe the publisher has long time commercial interest in this (and won't be able to understand that this will actually help his sales, too). I wonder! full, but that thing is clearly called ghash-gir if someone knows the device and its name. Thank you for clearing that up! No one cares for that, in a dictionary. A good dictionary should have all the Academy-approved words, but it should list all the words in usage, approved by the slow Academy or not. They can also be added as they get approved. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Fri, 4 Jun 2004, Ehsan Akhgari wrote: I volunteer to implement a web interface for the dictionary, Excellent! You'll have to make it so that whether the user types in bi[ZWNJ]kaar, bikaar, or bi kaar, the word will be found! but I think we'll need other people's help as well, because I would guess the whole data would be *huge*. Will this require separate dedicated server(s)? (I'm thinking about Behdad and the Persian Digital Library here...) -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: There are many claims that this doesn't add anything to the Mo'in Persian dictionary, How is that possible when it's physically twice as big? And now Pedram informs us it has a different approach, namely *definitions* rather than *synonyms*. and is a real waste of paper and shelf space. Waste is what's in our favor here! Sokhan stands to lose no money if they just hand over the data and all rights. It will be good publicity for them! I've heard oral critiques by Dr Masoumi-Hamedani (head of the Persian Academy's Language and Computer group) and Mr Pourmomtaz (a linguist, and the head of tarh-e jaame'-e kaarbari-e zabaan-e faarsi). I'm not into the game of ethymology etc, but can ask the people who claimed such for more details, if you insist. I'm sure it has a million defects. For example, I found one word ghash-gir meaning book-end and tried to use that on my Iranian friends but they'd never heard of it. (I'm not sure if the word was incorrect or you don't have book-ends in Iran! You know, the support you put at the end of your shelf to keep your books from toppling over...) I don't know if all the modern words have been approved by the Academy. Even so, it's wonderful! This was funded by a private publisher, as far as I know. No publisher could have afforded that without subsidy. In any case, they'd better do something with it soon, whether sell to someone who can afford it or give to us for free. Dictionaries get superceded rapidly so they'd better hurry! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Pedram Safari wrote: I do not know about pronunciation, but the dictionary at http://www.math.columbia.edu/~safari/dictionary/ (which was discussed above) is transliteration-based (using the so-called mikhi alphabet, available on the right side of the page), if that is what you want. It is platform-independent, as well as use-to-use (clickable). Pedram, Thanks but it's not what I need. First of all, I've actually been a *user* of this dictionary especially a few years ago when it was one of the ONLY online Persian dictionaries and I don't remember it ever being down or not working! I even had to write a report for some governmental agency on the state of online Persian materials in which I explained that on one hand this sort of dictionary is really only for Persian speakers wanting to learn English. Think of it: no vowels (harakat), no tashdid's. Is it not absurd that a dictionary should have half the letters missing?! On the other hand, due to the lack of textbooks with proper lists of vocabulary, the poor beginning students of Persian are forced to waste their time flipping through paper dictionaries which leads to fatigue and they don't have any energy left to actually *learn* the words. Therefore, I concluded this dictionary is much better than nothing at all. My professor even asked me to find out exactly which dictionary it was and that's how I came to know it was the Aryanpour Concise English-Persian dictionary and had that answer at the ready when Behdad asked the other day! Now,I wonder if some of you who are so experienced technically could do another dictionary project? At least as far as getting the data up in a legal way and then others could make the interface according to the needs of the target audience and connect with English and other languages. For example, I think this very nice dictionary is a complete waste as it is available only in printed form in unmanageable 8 volumes: AUTHOR Anvari, Hasan TITLEFarhang-e bozorg-e Sokhan / beh sarparasti-e Hasan Anvari PUBL INFOTehran : Sokhan, 1381 [2002] ISBN 9646961983 (set) It is in very clear typesetting, has latin transliteration, many idioms (estellah), examples of how to use in sentences, new words, dialect variations, etc. I'm sure this dictionary must have been funded by the Iranian government and no profits expected. I'm shocked to see that less than a dozen US universities have purchased it. I should think the author and publisher would be very happy to see it put online and all the efforts go to some use. Surely they will agree if their name is kept with the data! As for the technical part, I no longer have any doubts as to the abilities of the members of this group, especially after hearing the keyboard hack job for the sake of the ZWNJ earlier today! Thoughts? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Misinformation!
On Thu, 3 Jun 2004, Ordak D. Coward wrote: I recently came across this article http://www.khabgard.com/?id=844986758 which is endorsed by some other weblog authors. The author encourages using adifferent Yeh characters for middle and end placements. Oh my! I think someone was listening to the discussion on this list back in Nov 2003 with subject, What the hell is this Yeh and Keheh problem? and took all that as a nice How to and increased the problem! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Macs. Was Re: PersianComputing Digest, Vol 12, Issue 34
Thank you, Eva. I have wasted no time adding your additional tips to my Persian Mac info page in English: http://students.washington.edu/irina/persianword/mac.html I did edit out the Dear fiends part although I'm afraid your subconscious has discovered the true nature of the folks here :) Hope you inspire others to also send in more tips to help the friends and fiends alike! Also I just heard from Ali Samadi that the Iranian Mac User group (in Persian) is actually at: http://www.irmug.org (I think I had a mistake earlier.) -Connie On Wed, 2 Jun 2004, Eva Braiman wrote: Dear fiends, Thanks so much for the posting on Mac Persian word processing for the mac. I have had great success using all the tips I have gotten from this list. For example, I was able to salvage a Farsi manuscript with the following steps: 1. Take a DOC file created on an old Windows 98 (Arabic) machine running Parsa 99 and Zarnigar 97, copy it to the Mac (OSX 10.3.4) 2. Open the DOC file in Word (where the characters turn to gibberish) and save the file as an RTF 3. Using Mellel, with Persian ISRI keyboard and B Yagut font, import the RTF file and it looks nearly (a few yeh and alignment problems, but no big deal) perfect! Yay! Eva Braiman ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Mac User group
On Wed, 2 Jun 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: their dictionary available for download is infringing copyright of the Aryanpours What I understood from that discussion was that a lot of online dictionaries are using Aryanpour data with no mention of the name Aryanpour. Others mention Aryanpour but no sign that the Aryanpour estate is getting any royalties or even that permission was asked or granted to use their data. Then I even noticed this one: http://www.aryanpour.com where I'm not even sure any Aryanpour data was used! Since the Aryanpour family was in the dictionary business before anyone could foresee the computer age and with Iranian copyright laws being what they are, I'm not sure even that legally speaking, these people are breaking any laws. This data falls into a grey zone. Now, morally speaking, I must say in principle, it is horrible to take someone else's labor without permission, especially when the Aryanpour family is still around and still making dictionaries. I would like to know if they care or are they so big and famous that this is of no concern? Or maybe they are wringing their hands in despair that no one cares and then they'll thank you, Behdad! Why doesn't someone go knock on their door and ask for an official statement! I am sure curious to know! I don't think the Iranian Mac Users Group is any more or less guilty than all the others using the Aryanpour data and unless the Aryanpour family or their lawyers issue a directive, I can't do anything but urge people to say where they got the data and also join in this and other discussions because we are now entering the age of the database when all kinds of things are going to go online and I'm sure everyone would like to feel good about what they're doing. I think it's a good thing that nowadays there are EULA's, etc where the owner can explicitly say what may or may not be done with the property. By the way, does anyone know of a Persian online dictionary which gives any sort of pronunciation or transliteration info in Latin script? I mean besides the Steingass and besides this one: http://iranianlanguages.com/dictionary.php?eng-per which is obviously being developed with much care and attention to quality but still seems to not have a very large word base. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Mac info for Persian
Thanks to three Mac users on this list, I was able to collect some basic info on Persian Mac computing here: http://students.washington.edu/irina/persianword/mac.html I hope this will fill an information gap for the users as well as provide a place in English for the Apple people to see that they do have a few Persian customers who are suffering from neglect. More feedback is encouraged and I'll update as needed. I also took the opportunity to throw in a gratuitous, not-so-nice provocation which is aimed not only to excuse the Mac browsers for their shortcomings but also to encourage someone here to make a perfect, model testpage for Persian browsing. Since [most] webmasters want their site to actually work on all computers, we have no testpage. This is what I said: It is important to keep in mind that there are almost no real Persian websites one can use as a test for the browser. That is because most webmasters have dumbed down their site to make it work on Win9x and also to compensate for buggy fonts and general lack of complete Persian fonts. Therefore one rarely finds ZWNJ, Hamza above Heh, Persian numbers, small vowels, Persian Yeh, Persian Kaf, etc. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: WEFT webpage font embedding--Call for feedback
Well, I thought I was done with the Weft demo page, http://students.washington.edu/irina/persianword/weft.htm and could now catch up on my non-computing activities. Picked up reading Jamalzadeh's Dar al-Majanin where I'd left off months ago. What did I run into after just 2 pages? I looked at the sky. It had become an expansive garden (i.e., the same Hafez that was the content of the WEFT demo) LOL, this is some sort of conspiracy! Anyhow, I had to then return to the webpage and add Jamalzadeh's edition. This gave me the chance to add another FarsiWeb font, Roya. Also took the opportunity to throw in a couple Heh+Hamza Above (U+0654) demo's. The positioning is not altogether bad. Of course, not like U+06C0 but still, not bad. The harakat (short vowels, fatha, kasra, dumma, etc) are positioning a bit too distant from the mother ship but I threw a few in for good measure. Of course, these positioning issues will depend on the OS and browser as well as the font. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar (P.S.)
On Thu, 20 May 2004, Hooman Mehr wrote: I'll write some crime stories. But don't expect anything this week, I am very busy. OK! But if we are to properly judge your confession of past crimes, be sure to not leave out any details and please start from the beginning. You know, the glaciers were receding, the dinosaurs suddenly vanished, then...? Just deliver in small morsels as time permits! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Miscellaneous web issues
On Thu, 20 May 2004, Ehsan Akhgari wrote: BTW, why the Shift-Space combination does not work? Because the Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/tools/msklc.mspx thought the space bar is reserved for only spacing characters. Roozbeh said he sent MS a list of such bugs. Until they fix that, shift-b is not bad for ZWNJ. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Miscellaneous web issues
On Wed, 19 May 2004, Ehsan Akhgari wrote: Interesting. Sorry for my ignorance, but is that keyboard available publicly? You can re-live its creation here in the archives: http://lists.sharif.edu/pipermail/persiancomputing/2003-June/000538.html And you can download it here: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/farsitools/persiankeyboard.zip?download A PDF file with the layout is here: http://lists.sharif.edu/pipermail/persiancomputing/attachments/20030612/2e85a1ad/PersianKL_preview.pdf I've also repeated the above here if you don't like ZIP files or have some other problem. http://students.washington.edu/irina/persianword/kb.htm Roozbeh, is it not time to remove the experimental from its name? Why not? The \u syntax allows you to represent Unicode characters in JavaScript. Now I know. Well, on Mozilla1.2.1 that I tested it on, if you replaces ZWNJ in the description of the Tajik array indices with #8204; then it seems to work happily. Try giving it a test. Done! Beautiful! I hope the Mozilla users appreciate all this trouble. Thanks again for all your help! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar (P.S.)
On Wed, 19 May 2004, Behnam wrote: The Unicode character is U-2011, Non-Breaking Hyphen. If you don't have it on your keyboard, you may be able to use this information to type it with other tools or utilities. As Ordak D. Coward reports, Ctrl-Shift-Hyphen instead of hyphen does the trick in Word. (I checked.) I never thought of using Help. What a novel idea! U+2011 should definitely be part of the custom Perso-Arabic transliteration keyboards. (Hint to Peter) Or you can drop the Al- altogether. If I remember correctly, his street name in Iran was Biruni short and simple! Yes, you have to keep the audience in mind and pick from Abu Rayhan, Biruni, al-Biruni. Worse with (al-)Ghaz(z)ali. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar (P.S.)
Dear Hooman, I may move these stories to my pending weblog which hopefully will open in the next several days. Why should you move to your weblog? I can't think of a better place for the story of Persian computing than PersianComputing. One more thing, the reason that I may seem talented for story telling is that I am an INFP (http://www.personalitypage.com/INFP.html), so be-warned. Glad to know just what we're up against here! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar (P.S.)
On Wed, 19 May 2004, Behnam wrote: I don't see its use in Perso-Arabic script. I meant both Latin input and output here. The punishment for misunderstanding the question is that you have to answer some Mac questions! (New form of flaming, hope you like it!) I'm getting 1 or 2 Mac users per week asking for info on how to type Persian and I just am not sure what the state of the technology is so can you please give the definitive guide? (And anyone else who can please contribute, also, so there is one place with the basic info.) See my next post. Thanks in advance! -Connie On 19-May-04, at 5:38 PM, C Bobroff wrote: U+2011 should definitely be part of the custom Perso-Arabic transliteration keyboards. (Hint to Peter) ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Mac info for Persian
Hello Mac expert(s), Below are some Persian Mac questions. Any answers you can supply would be greatly appreciated. You can also add your own questions or re-word! Thank you! WORD-PROCESSING 1. Is it possible to type complete and correct Persian including ZWNJ and punctuation in a text editor/word processor that comes with the Mac itself? If yes, on which versions of Mac? 2. What is the font situation like? Additional fonts available online? For purchase? Free? 3. Is the default keyboard ok? Can you customize it? Is there also a phonetic input option? 4. What, why and where are Nisus Writer and Melal (and others)? Can they be used as/instead of an upgrade with older versions of Macs that don't do Persian text correctly? (Links to these products?) 5. Are there Mac support groups? Is there a way to contact Apple Persian support for feedback on Word-processing issues? Other helpful links? WEB VIEWING 1. Is it possible to see Persian websites correctly? Even harakat, punctuation, ZWNJ? On which Mac/Browser(s)? 2. Is the default font ok? Easy to specify your own if not? 3. Support groups? Apple support? Other useful links? ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Mac info for Persian
On Wed, 19 May 2004, Behnam wrote: That's alright. I don't like to make a fool of myself if it's not in public! I feel the same way! answer to your specific questions, I'll send them later. Thank you for your blurb. But you sound very pessimistic when the screenshot you sent me (privately) of the Tajik page was in fact, quite nice. There is no hurry on the specific questions. Whenever you feel like it, if ever... -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Tue, 18 May 2004, Ordak D. Coward wrote: - Birashk's book. He had published a book on his work, if memory serves me, it was called 'taarikh-tatbighi-ye Iran'. Looks like the English version of this book is on sale if you're interested: http://www.mazdapublishers.com/Comparative-Calendar.htm -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: IranL10nInfo
On Sun, 16 May 2004, Omid K. Rad wrote: But since I was drawn to this calendar thing I realized that the correct word is actually 'Amordad' Recommend you avoid correcting anything. Once you make a decision to correct one thing, you'll end up having to correct more and more and then it will get out of control. If you have an option for variants, fine but the one in the main entry should be the default, standard word in use right now at the time you are collecting data. Your job is to DEscribe, not PREscribe. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar (P.S.)
On Tue, 18 May 2004, Hooman Mehr wrote: On a second thought, I got reluctant to discuss this matter on the list. It would be way off topic. Moreover, I am afraid that whatever I say could be interpreted as political statement or religious evangelism and start flamewars. Looks like Fortune smiled upon you and you managed to post without getting flamed. So, with this newly acquired confidence and since you have some talent in story-telling, are you going to please tell us about your past crimes soon? Nimrooz, etc? I mean, from the beginning and please don't skimp on the details. I think I'm not the only one who would love to hear it! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar (P.S.)
Actually, all this off-topic mix of calendars and philosophy has reminded me that when I was writing something (in English) a few months ago on Al-Biruni, whenever his name came up at the end of the line in Word, it would wrap and so the Al- would be on one line and the Biruni would go down to the next. This seemed not very respectful to break up a great man's name like that! Is there any way to type a hyphen that will resist break-up during wrapping? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Mon, 17 May 2004, Ali A Khanban wrote: Shaahanshaahi calendar was introduced in 1355 and abolished in 1357. It was simply a map: Add 1180 to Iranian calendar. But is that the official name? I might have just made that up. Abbreviations?? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Mon, 17 May 2004, Ali A Khanban wrote: Of course, it is possible to find the exact date, for example by looking at the archive of Ettela'at or Kayhan newspapers, and see when the date in their title changes. Unfortunately, I don't have access to them at the moment, maybe later. ok, the info is online at Encyclopaedia Iranica: http://www.iranica.com/articlenavigation/index.html search under calendars--Islamic period page 672 (you can't seem to go there directly as they have a pdf file for each page) Here's the relevant part: On 24 Esfand 1354 Sh. / 14 March 1975 the Majles approved a new era based on the supposed year of accession of the first Achaemenid king, Cyrus the Great (559 B.C.); thus, 21 March 1976 became the first day (Nowruz) of the year 2535 in the Shaahanshaahi era. The month names of the Persian solar Hejri calendar were retained wihout change. Official documents and publications were dated according to the new calendar. This caused much confusion and created widespread discontent, particularly among the clergy. Eventually, on 5 Shahrivar 1357 Sh./27 August 1978, the government, in the face of the coming revolution, reverted to the solar Hejri calendar. This calendar is reckoned from 1 Farvardin, 119 days before 1 Moharram of the Arabian lunar year in which the hejra took place. The Julian date corresonding to the first day of the solar Hejri era is 19 March 622. Taqizadeh gives 17 March 622 (1937-39, p. 916), which was apparently the date arrived at by the Persian commission for calendar reform in 1304 Sh./1925. Wow, 3 whole years it lasted! However, must have been a productive 3 years as I do come across publications with the Shahanshahi date now and then. I still think it's worth mention in your documentation. Looks like it was abbreviated with Shin. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Sun, 16 May 2004, Hooman Mehr wrote: The lunar Hijri calendar used in Iran is also an official calendar and is calculated independent from other Hijri calendars used in other islamic countries. It is an important calendar, since it determines half of the holidays on our calendar. We also know that it has slightly different month lengths than other Hijri calendars. Are there any online or downloadable calendars or converters for the lunar Hijri system used in Iran? I'm only hearing about this different month lenghts business today... -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Iranian Calendar
On Sun, 16 May 2004, Omid K. Rad wrote: Iranian Calendar is okay IMHO, but I like the Persian Calendar better for the name of the calendar system, since it covers more countries. In Iran we use the Iranian subtype of the Persian calendar, and in Afghanistan the Jalali subtype is used. I don't know about Tajikistan. Omid, I still vote for Iranian Calendar because within that huge geographic expanse, there are various non-Persian speaking groups. Iranian is a little more broader term with a geographic sense as well. It is also used by linguists, for example to describe dialects spoken outside the borders of modern Iran to differentiate between the related Indian subset of Indo-Iranian. Iranian is also not perfect, but as you say, you can subset your .NET categories. I'm perhaps reacting to more of the fallout from this Farsi vs. Persian mess. One hears even more improvements/abuses of Persian in the English language, as in, for example: Daddy, look over there. There's some Persians speaking Farsi! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Iranian Calendar
On Sun, 16 May 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Something no body said is the Tajik people. I've heard they use the same calendar, is it right? Hang on a few days. I'll ask. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Iranian Calendar
On Sun, 16 May 2004, Omid K. Rad wrote: http://emr.cs.iit.edu/home/reingold/calendar-book/second-edition/CIIT.ht ml Thanks. I took a look. Perhaps the Islamic calendars should provide the time as well as the date and also say which time zone/region the calendar is referring to. I guess this Calendar topic is quite complex! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Miscellaneous web issues
Thanks to Peter, I finally got the Tajik project going (although under construction!) here: http://depts.washington.edu/yekruz/dialects/dialectsOfPersian.html I've had a lot of problems and I'm throwing them at you for your kind perusal and discussion of any points: 1. When viewed on WinXP/IE6, look what happens when you mouseover the Persian words at the end (i.e. left margin) of each line. You also pick up the space to the right of the first word in that line. Similarly, if you attempt to mouseover the first word in the line and are just a little off the word to the right, you unfortunately will pick up the last word in the line. Is this a bug or just my usual crazy coding style? This problem not seen with Mozilla. Also not with left to right languages. 2. When viewed on WinXP/Mozilla1.7a, the ZWNJ's completely throw off my mouseover javascript program. It can not find words with ZWNJ. And look what happens if you mouseover the Tajik eqivalent: it displays the Persian word ok but no ZWNJ. This problem not seen with IE. I left out all harakat just so it would work in Mozilla (and Macs) so I'm sorry to see this new problem. 3. To make the javascript arrays, I had to put a Persian word running from right-to-left inside brackets [ ] running from left to right and this I did in MS Notepad. Somehow, whether I copied or pasted or if I switched language in the process some sort of invisible characters would be added or else the brakets would end up like this: [ [ with the 2nd one running in the opposite direction. I had to keep re-doing and re-doing this, almost going crazy in the process. Maybe if brackets [ ] were in the Persian font, it would have been easier. I don't know. Punctuation in bidirectional situations is troublesome. 4. Notepad also deposits 3 junk characters at the top, an i with 2 dots, 2 right-angle brackets and an upside-down question mark, however you can't *see* them while in Notepad so you have to open the file in another text program to delete them. These 3 junk characters prevent the webpage from working in certain browers. Notepad is otherwise great because the latest one is WYSIWYG and makes Persian data-entry easy and these 3 junk chars are a small price to pay for that luxury. However, I'm open to a better tool. 5. Since -raa and -o are considered 2 separate words in Persian script but hook up to the previous word in Tajik script, I had to employ the ZWNJ just to have a one-to-one correspondence between languages for the purposes of this project. I was wishing I had Behdad's beloved U+202F, the Narrow No-Break Space for this operation! 6. I embedded the fonts again. Looks beautiful on WInXP/IE6 and limited others. I presume it looks terrible on the rest. Still thinking about what to do about that. Behnam, how's the Tajik looking on your Mac? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Sat, 15 May 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: So we've reached a consensus on using Iranian Calendar for the term referring to the solar calendar in action in Tehran, right? Iranian Calendar does sound like the best choice. Can you please be sure to mention in the documentation somewhere also about the Shaahanshaahi calendar and how to convert and what's its official name was and abbreviations, if any? That will be nice if that system also makes its way into online conversion tools. It's a real problem in places like Academic libraries when someone is, for example told to catalog a book and there is something like 2536 which appears to be a date, yet there is often no abbreviation or calendar designation and the poor cataloger has to run around looking for an expert and waste a lot of time. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: WEFT webpage font embedding--Call for feedback
On Sun, 9 May 2004, Masoud Sharbiani wrote: No, I did not have any additional fonts on my machine: the machine was re-installed 2 days before the experiment, with Win98SE, plus all available updates, plus NetScape Communicator 4.8 and ORinoco wireless drivers. None of these include Koodak font, do they? :-) Thanks for the clarification, Masoud. I've been studying your exhibits. Very interesting that your Tahoma in English gives all the English letters correctly. For example, the two letters in the name Hafiz should not be available in your version of Tahoma. So you either are benefiting from the updates or from my font via Weft. But why could it not have also given you the corrected Yeh in Persian? Since your machine can handle the Yeh in Koodak, it is not that it can't display the unicode character or that there is some shaping problem. Anyone have any ideas? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Days of the Week abbreviated
On Sun, 9 May 2004, Omid K. Rad wrote: There is no abbreviated form for the weekday names in Persian. However, in certain cases such as in the month calendar headers it is acceptable to use the first letter of weekdays. The direction is also from right to left. Maybe you should also mention the style in Behdad's middle picture. The one with the days of the week on the side. Maybe some segment of the population is accustomed to seeing that style. You might mess up their life if you take away what they're comfortable with! (Of course, this is beyond the abbreviation question.) -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
WEFT webpage font embedding--Call for feedback
We've had a few discussions about WEFT before in the past but never really explored it completely. Therefore, I made this demo page in both English and Persian and embedded Tahoma, Koodak(by FarsiWeb) and Arabic Typesetting: http://students.washington.edu/irina/persianword/weft.htm Can you please check if Weft has worked? Do you see my fonts correctly? Is the Yeh (medial form) showing up correctly in all fonts, especially on Win98? Is the load time any longer than usual? If you have the old, buggy Tahoma font, is my corrected font showing up instead? If you have the old Sinasoft or Borna Koodak, is my FarsiWeb Koodak showing up? Please report your findings! Be sure to mention which version of Windows and IE. By the way, you have to uninstall these fonts if you have them, otherwise, the test is not too helpful :) As you may know, Weft only works on Windows and IE so don't bother to check on anything else. Also please don't look at the source code! I was in a great hurry and yes, it's a mess. Anyone who is qualified is welcome to redo it if too unbearable. I would appreciate that! Thanks! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: WEFT webpage font embedding--Call for feedback
On Fri, 7 May 2004, Arash Zeini wrote: Hi Arash, You must have an older version of Tahoma on your computer. I think these Latin characters with diacritics were only recently added to Tahoma. (They seem to have forgotten z with line underneath even in the latest which is a problem for Persian transliteration.) Or maybe the reason was something else? Even when I was trying to create a PDF file from the webpage, Adobe showed unknown character boxes for those same characters you mentioned even though they were displayed just fine on the the webpage. I had to waste a lot of time making a screenshot jpeg then converting to pdf! Of course, Weft is not supposed to work on Konqueror/KDE. Perhaps it is possible to add the missing features. I know it used to be possible to use Weft on Netscape until they voluntarily stopped supporting whatever necessary component was involved in implementing Weft. Whether this was a technical or commercial decision, I don't know. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: WEFT webpage font embedding--Call for feedback
On Fri, 7 May 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Fariborz, (I know you really don't want to hear from eye-rain-ians ). If you're referring to seeing too much rain around here this morning, you're absolutely right :) What I've found useful -- especially for testing -- is VMWare. The reason I prefer the human testers is because Weft is very sensitive and we've seen that even on the same version of Windows and IE, Weft can behave differently. VMWare will give only one scenario and that too, probably in ideal conditions. It makes a difference if the user has enforced internet settings or if the machine is in kiosk mode, etc. I think it would be more useful to get a wide range of responses. (Not saying I won't try it out anyhow so thanks for the idea!) P.S. Mac OS X users can use VirutalPC for PC virtual machine on a Mac. Maybe our Mac expert in Toronto will have something to say on this. Behnam? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: IranL10nInfo
On Mon, 3 May 2004, Jon D. wrote: http://students.cs.byu.edu/~jonsafar/fonts/xtajmcyr.ttf http://students.cs.byu.edu/~jonsafar/fonts/xtajtcyr.ttf Thanks, Jon. I guess these are hacked Monaco and Times New Roman although I didn't look too carefully. Meanwhile, Peter has sent me a keyboard and wonderful documentation which I'm still trying out. It does look like MS Arial Unicode and TITUS can handle the few extra Tajik characters although both fonts are more about function than appearance and not so practical for webuse. That's why people resort to hacking, I suppose. Still, they are a lot better than nothing and maybe I can get back on the project I'd shelved earlier. Too bad I didn't ask here earlier! Thanks again for checking. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Days of the Week abbreviated
On Sun, 2 May 2004, Omid K. Rad wrote: [3.2.3] There is no abbreviated form for the weekday names in Persian. However, it is common to use the first letter of weekdays in the month calendars as ^^ Common? How about, acceptable or something like that? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: IranL10nInfo
Peter, Please send me your Tajik keyboard and we can discuss it further off the list. I don't think Arial Unicode MS will do but TITUS may work. I'll have to check. My particular project was for the web so even if we do find a font, it will boil down to the eternal question of whether to embed, use graphics or force the user to download the font (or some combination thereof.) -Connie On Fri, 30 Apr 2004, Linguasoft wrote: Arial Unicode MS should do, plus (probably) Code2000 by James Kass or (possibly) Bitstream TITUS Unicode -- I've to check the latter ones. I am quite certain that there are a couple of Russian-made (not hacked) fonts around, too. Peter -Original Message- From: C Bobroff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 9:16 PM To: Linguasoft Cc: 'Roozbeh Pournader'; 'PersianComputing' Subject: RE: IranL10nInfo On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Linguasoft wrote: It's very easy to type Tajik using a Phonetic (i.e., mnemonic) Cyrillic keyboard. With which font though? I could only find hacked fonts. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Days of the Week abbreviated
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: I think we should conclude that abbreviations should be avoided. Good you finally got it... ;) Thank you for your vigilance ...and patience, Behdad. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: IranL10nInfo
Iran Localization Info for Microsoft .NET Omid, Thanks and good idea. Why not also include Afghan and Tajik data? No one is looking out for them. For example, I recently tried to figure out the date in Afghanistan. There are dozens of online converters but all they've done I think is take FarsiWeb's Jalali converter and change Esfand to Hut, etc with no attention to the different way the leap year is calculated making the calendar useless. (Luckily someone finally provided me with a trustworthy off-line calendar.) Then I tried to type a paragraph in Tajik and the best font I could find was a hacked Times New Roman which was unusable. A side benefit to taking the other Persians into consideration is that it brings up issues of Iran Persian which might have otherwise gone unnoticed. Just a humble suggestion. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Days of the Week abbreviated
On Wed, 28 Apr 2004, Omid K. Rad wrote: Oh! I am late to vote! No hurry, votes can be added any time. All I ask is that voters actually be living in Iran. If anyone else still wants to submit their vote, please do so. It is very common to use the first letter of weekdays in month calendars. Interesting that we have the full spectrum now from never to very common. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Nested RTL Lists in Mozilla
On Sat, 6 Mar 2004, Behnam Esfahbod wrote: In new mozilla release (1.7a), the bug for alignment of nested right-to-left lists has fixed. Now all type of lists (ol|ul) work properly in RtL direction. Test Page: http://bamdad.org/~behnam/test/list.fa.html But the numbers in the list are still not in Persian... -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: English-Persian dictionary on your site (fwd)
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: that have access to Aryanpour hardcopy can spend a few minutes to confirm that the dictionary at http://www.math.columbia.edu/~safari/dictionary/ contains the Aryanpour data. Aryanpur Kashani, Abbas. The Concise English-Persian dictionary. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: PersoArabic font challenge
A comment on Tom Milo: he is an expert in the script, but not in Unicode really. What he says and writes are wonderful stuff (specifically the calligraphy parts), but don't trust the accuracy of what he says about Unicode or other standards. I appreciated the mention of ae (as opposed to heh). That's so interesting. Did Persian (unicode) ever use ae? Was it then deprecated? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: AR-EN Morphoanalytical Dictionary
By the way, who ARE the Aryanpour brothers? We see their data in online dictionaries all over the place. Do they not know or care? Of course, the printed versions keep getting reprinted so they get some benefit. But what is their story? Have they ever spoken on this subject? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: persian font Footnote
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004, Payam Poursaied wrote: would someone please help me to create persian font footnote? [MS word] in the body of text, it is displayed by persian digits, but in the footnote section it appears in latin digits Payam, This is a bug but I can think of two solutions for now. If you have gobs of footnotes, go into the control panel and globally change all your digits to Iran style. (See archives for exact method, someone just 2-3 days ago asked about page numbers and it came up in that discussion.) When you're done with the document, change system back to whatever you had before. Or, If you have only a few footnotes, just choose SYMBOL when it prompts you for what kind of style of footnotes you want. You can select font (for example Tahoma) and fontsize and then the symbol which in this case is actually a number. Unfortunately, I don't know of any way to align it on the right margin. There may be other, equally non-standard methods, of course. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Using of U+066C as a number-separator
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Other people like Connie are sacrificing their life to get our comments and translate it into pages that the other 90% can understand. Speaking of which, I'm just today attempting to make a Persian keyboard for fingers which are used to typing English. (Peter Hauer already make the nice Keyman keyboard and that's great expecially for Win9x users but we also need one which works system-wide, not just in word-processing programs. The MS layout created keyboards only work on Win2000 and later.) Hopefully I'll get this done by the time the new fonts are past beta stage. Anyhow, I need some help. I'm just cheating by using Farsiweb's Persian experimental standard keyboard and rearranging things. Please tell me why you have included the following. Are they used for Persian? U+0060 Grave Accent U+003b Western Semicolon U+003F Western question mark U+0027 Apostrophe I decided to put the Arabic numerals as well as Persian. I think that will be useful in some cases. What do you think? (Don't worry, they're hard to reach--Shift+Cntrl+Alt!) By the way, this is very hard making all these executive decisions and I've ended up doing some crazy things. Like the 4 key was already maxed out for Persian 4, Rial, $ and Arabic 4 so I put the Euro on Cntrl+Alt+e. And I think I've put the ZWNJ on a total of 3 different keys, just for good measure! Someone stop me! Out of control!! And this ignorance thing is gonna kill us some day or another. Just think of the sheer amount of time wasted on cross referencing and explaining to people who really have no clue what these two names mean and all the misunderstandings. The damage can not be exaggerated. I heard a news report on Bam where the reporter seemed to not be sure if the country was called Iran or Iraq. Maybe just like the Farsi or Persian thing?? Utter confusion! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Using of U+066C as a number-separator
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: We did that because we wanted to allow all the ASCII printable characters. The real need was for things like XML, where some of these characters are part of the syntax. The user will want to enter Persian XML without ever switching to a Latin layout. Glad I asked before deleting! I don't know about these things. Why should one object to additions? You can go and add Koranic marks or Urdu letters also. ok! Thank you for your blessing. It is indeed a shame to allow keys to go unused. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Using of U+066C as a number-separator
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: Put them in if you have the space. They'll prove to be necessary. It's not XML only. It's everything that is considered *rich text*, a text file that is supposed to mean more than the exact text. HTML, XML, TeX, ... Sure, I'll put them. I wish there was a way to put 2-3 characters on a single keystroke with this tool. How have they managed that with Rial on the normal keyboards? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: New beta release of Persian Fonts
On Sat, 27 Dec 2003, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: You can download your copy from: http://www.farsiweb.info/font/farsifonts-0.2.zip I can't download. I'm getting an alert box that says The Compressed (zipped) Folder is invalid or corrupted. Is it just me? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Writing Farsi with a german Word
Thomas, When you're in Word, just go Tools Options Complex Scripts Context Context means it will see that you're typing Persian and change the numbers accordingly to Persian. There's a bug with page numbers if you want to read about it: http://students.washington.edu/irina/persianword/numbers.htm Someone also recently mentioned the following method which I haven't tried so I can't say if it works. It may change all your numbers to Persian in a more permanent fashion. Maybe someone else here can comment: 1. Control panel 2. Regional and language options 3. `Select an item to match its Preferences' to Farsi 4. Click `Customize' 5. The last option: `Digit substitution' to `National' 6. Confirm all -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Writing Farsi with a german Word
On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: On Wed, 2004-01-07 at 18:36, Thomas Speck wrote: When I start Word 2003, and change the language to farsi, i can type in farsi, but the numerals appear in western typeset. That's a misfeature in MS Windows keyboard layouts. I think it's supposed to be a feature. Some people prefer Western-style numerals even if the text is in some other language. (Not saying this should be the default.) I think they forgot how to use their own numbers. As Peter pointed out, Persian speakers seem to be fast forgetting how to read Nasta`liq. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Writing Farsi with a german Word
Well, almost nobody can read even the text of their (the Calligrapher Association's) arm... ;) Likely a feature, not a bug. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: [persiancomputing]Separating persian numbers with comma is incorrect (second e-mail)
Behzad, You are a wonder with scanner and hi-liter! Thank you and good job!! I'll let you know when the museum exposition is ready for your perusal. (Certain others may like to note how promptly Behzad has sent that when I'm still waiting for printed wedding invitations, flyers, invoices, etc with the Arabic Yeh and Kaf for the other museum exhibit announced a long time ago) Please kindly find the scanned page of the book (Persian Manual of Editing, Is there a date on there? 138?? Now I'm a little bit worry about a Comma vs. Reh War! Just be glad you weren't around for the Heh+Hamza vs Heh+Yeh War. Now THAT was bloody. A professional in Persian language [Mr. MohammadReza Mohammadifar], He DOES have a Heh+Hamza right there on the cover of his book so he can't be TOO bad! (Now I'm going to get flamed...) But why is he using the word, kaamaa? I thought it's virgul in Persian? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: [persiancomputing]Separating persian numbers with comma is incorrect (second e-mail)
On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: As a webmaster, I rather to use 'Reh', which consists with Web Usability Rules. Which Web Usability Rules?? Presumably he doesn't like the users to see a box or ??? or ,. The old font problem as usual! That is the source of all our problems! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: [persiancomputing]Separating persian numbers with comma is incorrect
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: Please quote the exact Persian text (in faargilisi if necessary). By the way, what is the difference between faargilisi and finglish? -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Writing Farsi with a german Word
On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: No. That is simply a bug. People started to forget Persian numerals just after microsoft did this. To back my opinion just note that in the old Dos era everyone used Persian numerals. And the simple reason that MS did this bug *intentionally* is that their application does not parse Persian numeralas as numeric data, so if you type 12 with Persian digits in a font-size box in Office, it would give error. So if they were to put Persian digits on keyboard, people need to switch to English to write any number (see what happenes in Excel). And if they where to allow (let people know it's possible) to type Persian digits, people would request Persian digits in their Excel spreadsheets that was not possible. So they simply removed Persian digits from the keyboard, and as there was no Persian costumer, they predicted no one is gonna ask them... Behdad, So many excellent points you have raised here! And how true! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: [persiancomputing]Separating persian numbers with comma is incorrect
On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Historically (I see you are interested ;) snip Well, that's almost it. Yes, that is interesting! Let us know if there's more! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: [persiancomputing]Separating persian numbers with comma is incorrect (second e-mail)
On Wed, 7 Jan 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: I tried to convince him to refine his work based on better references, but he didn't seem interested enough. OK, one whole person gave him feedback. told me. I have his email address, if you want to try it yourself. He happens to read his emails, contrary to many other Iranian experts. No thanks! You mean on the mailing list? No, I just checked, and he's not here, nor on any other mailing list on lists.sharif.edu. You never know who's hiding behind all those hotmail and yahoo addresses! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: [persiancomputing]Separating persian numbers with comma is incorrect
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: Reh is a workaround for the decimal separator (U+066B). This is the first time I'm seeing it recommended for a thousands separator. Perhaps due to English (American???) influence? Otherwise, Persian has borrowed punctuation from French where, in the case of numerals, the comma and decimal point are used exactly opposite of English usage. That's a nice coincidence that Reh resembles both a comma and the real Persian decimal separator. And now that you mention it, I recall the Arabic font-makers were having a lot of trouble reaching a concensus as to what the decimal separator should look like. (I don't remember the details, though.) Speaking of comma (060C), are there any guidelines for Persian texts about putting a space between the preceding word and the comma? Again, I don't remember exactly where I read that space or no space made a sylistic difference. Anyway, it's not always a workaround. Iran University Press insist on using a Reh form for the decimal separator although they use TeX-e-Parsi which has a different glyph than Solidus (/) for the decimal separator. Extremely cool! I will take a closer look next time I'm reading. Behzad, If you find the time and energy to scan and send a jpeg of the passage you quoted, I'll add that to the museum. It has great historical value. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: [persiancomputing]Separating persian numbers with comma is incorrect
As described in the book Nogh-teh GozAri (The official Persian Manual of Editing, Vol.5, Punctuaion Book) written by Mohammad-RezA Mohammadi-Far, page 460: It is not correct to use comma (,) or U+06CC to separate every group of thousands in numbers. Instead, the editor must use the Persian letter 'Reh (U+0631)'. BEHzad, Really? I thought the Reh was just a workaround for fonts lacking both , and U+066C. I didn't think it was something that should be prescribed. Do you have the publisher and date of publication of this manual? This is very interesting. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
A nice announcement to start off the newly merged lists
Check this out: http://www.arabeyes.org/ace.php?ace=pournaderlang=en -Connie - It is Arabeyes.org's utmost pleasure to note that Roozbeh Pournader is this Quarter's featured ACE. Do please read his interview (available in both English and Arabic) to get a better glimpse into an individual who is not only very well versed in all issues Open Source and Arabic but is also a pillar in the community that has been an outspoken driver behind many scenes. Roozbeh's efforts and assistance have NOT gone unnoticed and so the entire Arabic Linux/Open Source community commends him on his continued drive and perseverance. + Mentioned URLs: - http://www.arabeyes.org - http://www.arabeyes.org/ace.php - http://www.arabeyes.org/ace.php?ace=pournaderlang=en - http://www.arabeyes.org/ace.php?ace=pournaderlang=ar ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: [PersianComputing] An alphabetician on radio...
2) One of the callers says Farsi in a question, then immediately corrects himself with Persian! TOO immediately. Sounded like he thinks Farsi-Persian is the complete, proper name of some language! (Can't blame him!) -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
[PersianComputing] Fontsize Format Won't Work on Win2000 for Persian
Many people with Win2000 have been complaining they can't adjust font size or formatting once they enable Persian. Since I never experienced this problem I couldn't figure it out. Well, one person has found the solution: Insert the Office CD! (Looks like more than one Mr Connie Genius in the world.) This is what happens when you're using someone else's computer and you didn't personally enable right-to-left options on day one. Also it's strange that Win2000 doesn't prompt you to insert the disk. Of course, if you are engaging in a little, beh estelah, copyright infringement and don't have the original disk, then this won't help you. Probably there are other ways to fix it but at least here is one. Hope it helps someone. (I'm appending her emails below.) -Connie Forwarded Message-- Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 11:30:10 +0200 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: font sizes in office 2000 Hi Connie - I've solved the font size problem! As I thought, it wasn't a windows problem, but an office one. To enable the font size changing function, you have to have installed the second office2000-CD. Then you'll find the option microsoft office tools in the programmes section of the start menu. One of those office tools is office language settings. You click that, insert CD1, then you choose Arabic as your favourite language. Then it should work... maybe you can send this to those other people who have my problem and see if it works for them as well? Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 12:20:19 +0200 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: C Bobroff [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: font sizes in office 2000 Hi Connie - it really was no trouble at all! You're welcome to post my text, but please put in that the option to choose Arabic as favourite language appears only when you click apply first. Maybe it is not even necessary to choose it as favourite, maybe it's enough just to enable it... I don't know. As I wrote to you, I reinstalled windows and everything, now the Persian problem is solved, but others have crept up.. so I don't know if my computer is working as it should be working. People should just try out. *happy* greetings:-) Antonia ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: [PersianComputing] Dictionary AND text translator
Pars Translator as English to Persian (Farsi) translation and dictionary is not new. We begun this services last year and this software has a 7 years market. Anyway, we are looking for interested group to have a joint project for Persian (Farsi) to English translator (text). Regards, Pars Translator Group, Ebadat A.R. Ok, well, I seem to be the last to have found out. You've made a really cool tool. Congratulations! When you get the Persian to English part running, please announce it here. I can't do ALL your advertising for you, after all!! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
[PersianComputing] Dictionary AND text translator
I think this is new: http://www.parstranslator.net I tried the online service and it was quite fine. I don't know about the downloadable one. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: [PersianComputing] Re: SOLVED: Button translation
Isn't this only about *English* button labels? I was going to ask the same thing... -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
[PersianComputing] Re: persian-language.org
They *could* be instructed. Google is very bad in linguistics, specially when considering Persian. Oh? So they ARE supposed to be equal and the problem is with Google and not with those tables. I'm greatly relieved! Next question: Why hasn't Google been instructed? How can we give it a refresher course in linguistics? Really, you'd better use both :(( You are cruel! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
[PersianComputing] Re: persian-language.org
On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Hey Mr Connie Genius, The subject line ;). http://www.persian-language.org/ Hehe. It's not for nothin' I'm called Mr Connie Genius! Yeah, I knew what was coming as I was treated to those 2 beautiful final dots of farsi in the title of the page long before the page actually loaded! So what action should be taken here ? Shall I send a nastygram to the webmaster written on the official stationery of the Dots Police? I was even thinking of opening up a Yeh Museum the other day. If I can get folks to scan and email me these specimens of announcements/invitations on printed paper with the Arabic Yeh's I will create a beautiful photo gallery as a tribute to this historic phenomonon! I mean it--send them in. It'll be cool! Actuallyand I'm risking exposing more of my genius tendancies hereI wanted to ask what I misunderstood along the line because I was under the impression that search engines or any search tool had been instructed to consider Arabic and Persian Yeh's to be the same. Yet it is a sad fact that if you do a Google search for a Persian word with final yeh, you'd better use the Arabic yeh. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
[PersianComputing] Re: persian-language.org
Ever considered having a nick name of Joe? See: Mr Joe Genius. Those Qazvini's really like my name and I've had a lot of fun with it, and it has generated much laughter and good-will, therefore it stays. Tell them you are going to put them in your black list if they don't act in 24 hours. Don't forget to tell them that as a consequence, most major proxies around the world (not in Iran!) would block their site. Got it. Will do. Roozbeh has a nice masterpiece for you musuem, but that's not dot related. A bidi problem, printed 001 instead of 100. There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary and those who don't. They do NOT do special handling this. Well, maybe it's time for a re-think on this. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
[PersianComputing] Re: Persian Academy's computer terms
Hi Arash, The same list is also available from www.amitis.org under the terminology section. I couldn't locate the terminology section. Can you give a direct URL? Thanks, Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: [PersianComputing] Re: Persian Academy's computer terms
Arash, The reason you need to register is because people are able to submit new entries. We need to change this later so that anonymous users can see and reg. users can see and post. In fact I'd long been wondering whether anyone was taking on such a project as this. Hope you attract lots of high-quality contributors. Do keep us posted from time to time. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: [PersianComputing] Persian Academy's computer terms
taghghe bezanid? We'll have to wait and see if the Academy passes that one! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: [PersianComputing] Koodak font: alpha release
...). Now both MS Windows and Red Hat Linux ship with those fonts. Oh, so THAT'S what the plan was. Very nice! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: [PersianComputing] Koodak font: alpha release
In countries like Iran where the availability of source can be a great teaching resource to students in schools and universities, it does a lot more good than perceived harm. Did you see this video? http://www.science-arts.org/src/story/presentations/video/all.ram It's old (2001) but it features our favorite university! -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
