RE: Days of the Week abbreviated

2004-05-09 Thread Omid K. Rad
  [3.2.3]
  There is no abbreviated form for the weekday names in Persian. 
  However, it is common to use the first letter of weekdays in the 
  month calendars
  ^^
 Common?
 How about, acceptable or something like that?

Well, right. How about this phrase:
[3.2.3]
There is no abbreviated form for the weekday names in Persian. However,
in certain cases such as in the month calendar headers it is acceptable
to use the first letter of weekdays. The direction is also from right to
left.

It is now updated here:
http://www.idevcenter.com/projects/iranl10ninfo/draft/#3.2.3

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RE: FW: IranL10nInfo - First Week of The Year

2004-05-09 Thread Omid K. Rad
On Sat, 8 May 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote:

 Ah, it's not Unicode that does that. It's the Common Locale Repoistory
 Project or something like that does that.

Alright! I was just pointing to that method.


 Suitable for what? For specifying Iranian Persian requirements?

No, Iranian Persian requirements are those you are bringing on a native
document that has general uses. The Locale Data Markup Language (LDML)
seems suitable for the extensible scheme since it can be transformed
into different information systems.

 
 roozbeh
 
 

Omid

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RE: IranL10nInfo

2004-05-09 Thread Omid K. Rad
On Sun, 9 May 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
 Hi Omid,

Hi,

 A couple of points:  The Jalaali calendar, can you please
 tell me in which of the ECMA standards is it defined?

None. I don't agree with that name for our current calendar. It is the
name Microsoft has selected. I believe 'Persian calendar' or 'Iranian
calendar' is more correct (and known) for the international name of
Hejrie Shamsi.


 The same about the locale definitions.

Which defenitions you mean exactly? Those fields that you see in the
draft are properties of some globalization classes defined in the .NET
Base Class Library (BCL), and we are defining their expected return
values for Iran.


 And next:  You are saying that the Mono and DotGNU projects
 are published under noncommercial shared-source licenses.  
 I'm almost sure this is not the case.  shared-source is the 
 old Microsoft trick.  Both of this two platforms (Mono and 
 DotGNU) can be used for commercial purposes as well as 
 non-commercial, both for free.  You can read more about why a 
 noncommercial-only license is not the best license at 
 http://www.fsf.org/

Yes, they are open source, and each part of them is published under the
terms of a GNU licence. You're right, you can create commercial
applications for these platforms as well.

 Later,

:)

 behdad
 

Omid



 On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Omid K. Rad wrote:
 
  Iran Localization Info for Microsoft .NET
 
 
  Hello every body, especially my friends at FarsiWeb,
 
  I'm trying to point out some things here (even though you might
  already
  know) about .NET and our project.
 
  For your information:
 
  The .NET Common Language Infrastructure (CLI) and the C#
 programming
  language were submitted to ECMA and ISO/IEC International
  standardization organizations a couple of years ago. The 
 submissions
  were ratified as standards after thorough investigations as:
 
  Standard ECMA-334 (C#)
  
 http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-334.htm
 
  Standard ECMA-335 (CLI)
  
 http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-335.htm
 
  Standard ISO/IEC 23270 (C#)
  
 http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/CatalogueDetailPage.CatalogueDetail?CSNUMBER=
  36
  768
 
  Standard ISO/IEC 23271 (CLI)
  
 http://www.iso.ch/iso/en/CatalogueDetailPage.CatalogueDetail?CSNUMBER=
  36
  769
 
  This resulted in raising many new open source movements
 over .NET in
  the ICT community, amongst which there are three major projects by
  third parties that intend to implement versions of the .NET 
 Framework
  conforming to the base implementations that Microsoft has
 done or is
  already underway. Those are:
 
  The Ximian's Mono Project sponsored by UNIX http://www.go-mono.com
 
  Free Software Foundation's Portable .NET
  http://www.dotgnu.org/pnet.html
 
  Corel's Rotor (Microsoft SSCLI) for FreeBSD
  http://msdn.microsoft.com/net/sscli
 
 
  All of these implementations are published under noncommercial
  shared-source licenses. This means we will have .NET applications 
  running on a vast number of platforms quite soon, to name a 
 handful:
  Linux, Windows, Solaris, FreeBSD, HP-UX, and Mac OS X. We
 have also a
  choice of more than 20 programming languages to choose from: APL,
  COBOL, Component Pascal, Eiffel, Fortran, Haskell, Jscript.NET, 
  Mercury, Oberon, Pascal, Perl, Python, Smalltalk, Visual 
 Basic.NET, C#
  , Managed
  C++, etc.
 
  To make applications more interoperable between different
 platforms,
  all of the implementations of CLI consider implementing the
  fundamental namespaces in the .NET Framework Class Library that 
  reflect closely to what Microsoft releases. These don't include 
  namespaces such as Microsoft.*, yet include those that are 
 referred to
  as pure .NET namespaces which System.Globalization
 namespace is one of
  them.
 
  The System.Globalization is also available in .NET Compact
 Framework -
  a lighter version of the framework that installs on
 handheld devices.
 
  In the Iran Localization Info for Microsoft .NET project
  (IranL10nInfo for short) we have selected to work only on 
 those parts
  of .NET that are in the System.Globalization namespace (pure .NET).
  Any changes that Microsoft mekes on them are indirectly ported to 
  every non-Microsoft implementations of the Class Library.
 
  Moreover, this project will automatically produce a good layout of
  information fields that we can simply use for other languages like 
  Tajik and Afghan.
 
 
  So, we are trying to resolve some locale issues far beyond
 Microsoft -
  a big name.
 
 
 
  All the best,
  Omid
  __
Iran Localization Info for Microsoft .NET
  http://www.idevcenter.com/projects/iranl10ninfo/draft/
 
 
  Other Open Source developments over ECMA CLI:
 
  Intel Lab's OCL (Open CLI Library)
  http://sourceforge.net/projects/ocl/
 
  Platform.NET http://sourceforge.net/projects/platformdotnet/
 
 
 
  Articles:
 
  Linux World - Bringing the CLI

RE: Days of the Week abbreviated

2004-05-09 Thread Omid K. Rad
On Sun, 9 May 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:

 I'm not sure how month calendar makes sense in English.
 What about writing in tabular representations?

I checked it up. month calendar is a term used for the calendars with
a month view. I found this in use even more than monthly calendar.
About tabular representations, it is better but in general terms.


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RE: IranL10nInfo

2004-05-09 Thread Omid K. Rad
I totally agree with you that the name Jalali keeps away all that
confusion and debate around Farsi/Persian/Iranian and also
Shamsi/Khorshidi. But as far as I'm advised, the Jalali Calendar
refers to an era other than the Hejrie Shamsi which is in use today,
and the calculations are not exactly the same. This is what some people
have told me, I don't know about the details though. Can anybody clarify
please?

 Jalali Calendar is such a cute name, not?
Yeah, and funny is the message a guy has commented on MSDN Longhorn
annotations for the Jalaali calendar:

Thank you 
This Calender Is A Good
Thank You Mr Jalali
Thank Bill

Doh!!

Omid


On Sun, 9 May 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:

 Humm, good point.  I was worried about Jalaali being used 
 instead of Jalali.  But now that you mention it, I almost 
 agree that one of Persian or Iranian calendar may suit 
 better. Well, we have the Gregorian and Julian calendar 
 suggesting Jalali, and we have Chinese and Japanese 
 suggesting Iranian, and we have Islamic and Hebrew 
 calendars suggesting Persian! Guys, can we decide on one 
 once now?  Humm, after finishing the sentence, I go back to 
 vote for Jalali!  As it avoid binding yet another meaning 
 to the Persian/Iranian word, and we don't have to go on tell 
 everybody that this Farsi Calendar is the same as the 
 Persian Calendar or Iranian Calendar, which in turn used 
 to be known as Jalali Calendar or Jalaali Calendar by 
 MS...  Poof, Jalali Calendar is such a cute name, not?
 
 Oh, the main point, now that Jalaali is not in any standard 
 yet, perhaps you can request a name change from Jalaali to 
 Jalali.  Of course it's just my personal suggestion.
 
 later,
 --behdad
   behdad.org
 

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IranL10nInfo

2004-04-27 Thread Omid K. Rad
Iran Localization Info for Microsoft .NET

Hello everybody,

I would like to inform you about the new project we have recently run at 
iDevCenter.com. We are preparing a draft of the correct information about the Persian 
language and Iran that shall be used in the Microsoft .NET and Windows platforms, 
intending to propose to the International Developments section of Microsoft 
Corporation afterwards.
 
We are eagerly looking forward for your contribution and support to this mission.
 
Please check out the latest draft here:

http://www.idevcenter.com/projects/iranl10ninfo/draft/ 

Homepage in persian:

http://www.idevcenter.com/projects/iranl10ninfo/


Sincerely,
Omid K. Rad


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RE: Using Hijri Shamsi date in Outlook 2002

2004-04-27 Thread Omid K. Rad
Dear Behdad,

 ...in your references, I couldn't find any reference for this bold
claim.

Click on System.Globalization.JalaaliCalendar in the article, it links
to this page on MSDN:
http://longhorn.msdn.microsoft.com/?//longhorn.msdn.microsoft.com/lhsdk/
ref/ns/System.Globalization/c/JalaaliCalendar/JalaaliCalendar.aspx


 ...I see you have named the first section of your site FarsiWeb ...I
definitely appreciate if you clarify your intention on using the same
name in your site

The website www.IranASP.NET is not MY site. I suggest you study the
links well before you ask me for clarifications.


Truly,
Omid K. Rad






-Original Message-
From: Behdad Esfahbod [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: April 27, 2004 6:04 PM
To: Omid K. Rad
Cc: 'PersianComputing'
Subject: Re: Using Hijri Shamsi date in Outlook 2002


Dear Mr Omid K. Rad,

I read your article at:

http://www.iranasp.net/whatever/jalaalicalendar.aspx

where you claim that JalaaliCalendar is going to be added to LongHorn
and .NET 1.2.  But in your references, I couldn't find any reference for
this bold claim.  I would appreciate if you clarify.

Second and more important, I see you have named the first section of
your site FarsiWeb, which contains articles about Persian in
Web:

http://www.iranasp.net/Articles/Category.aspx?catid=1

As you definitely know, the FarsiWeb Project has been active and online
at http://www.farsiweb.info/ for a few years now.  I definitely
appreciate if you clarify your intention on using the same name in your
site, as it definitely will be misleading for a few people.  Moreover, I
personally appreciate that if you change the name.

Sincerely,
Behdad Esfahbod
FarsiWeb Project
http://farsiweb.info/


On Tue, 27 Apr 2004, Omid K. Rad wrote:

 Hi,

 Currently it is not supported internally by Windows. Anyways, in the 
 next release of Windows you can do that, hopefully.

 Follow the link: http://www.iranasp.net/whatever/jalaalicalendar.aspx


 Omid K. Rad

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FW: Re: Days of the Week abbreviated

2004-05-01 Thread Omid K. Rad
Iran Localization Info for Microsoft .NET

After Behdad's justifications and concluding the survey about this discussion, I 
changed the section [3.2.3] of the draft as follows:

[3.2.3]
There is no abbreviated form for the weekday names in Persian. However, it is common 
to use the first letter of weekdays in the month calendars as shown below.

 


  






Changes are online: http://www.idevcenter.com/projects/iranl10ninfo/draft/#3.2.3


Omid

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FW: IranL10nInfo - First Week of The Year

2004-05-01 Thread Omid K. Rad
Hi,

Im going to find the regulation that is used in Iran to determine the first week of 
the year.
 
To decide on the first week of the year weve got three rules (don't tire out 
yourself with these, just read on):
 
1. FirstDay
Indicates that the first week of the year starts on the first day of the year and ends 
before the following designated first day of the week.
 
2. FirstFourDayWeek 
Indicates that the first week of the year is the first week with four or more days 
before the designated first day of the week.
 
3. FirstFullWeek 
Indicates that the first week of the year begins on the first occurrence of the 
designated first day of the week on or after the first day of the year. 
 
 
Assuming that we are applying the above rules on the Persian (Hejri 
Shamsi/Jalaali/Khorshidi) calendar, well have:
 
First day of the year is 1st of Farvardin
First day of the week is Saturday
 
 
I simplify the rules for the Persian calendar:
 
1. FirstDay
Indicates that the first week of the year starts on the 1st of Farvardin and ends 
before the following Saturday.
 
2. FirstFourDayWeek
Indicates that the first week of the year is the first week with four or more days 
before Saturday.
 
3. FirstFullWeek
Indicates that the first week of the year begins on the first occurrence of Saturday 
on or after the 1st of Farvardin. 
 
 
The rules are earier to understand when bringing them on a chart. This shows how each 
of the rules specifies the first week of the year when the first day of the year is 
fallen on each of the days of the week!
 
1st of FarvardinFirstDay   FirstFourDayWeek   FirstFullWeek
Sat 1   1   1
Sun 1   1  
 2
Mon 1   1  
 2
Tue 1   1  
 2
Wed 1   2  
 2
Thu 1   2  
 2
Fri 1   2  
 2
 
 
In the above table, 1 indicates that the first week of the year is the same as the 
week in which the first day of the year (1st of Farvardin) exists. If the first week 
of the year is shifted to the next week, then it is indicated by the number 2.


Now, find the Orange Seller!!!?? :P
 
Which rule is used to determine the first week of year in Iran? (Or which one is more 
used?)


tnx,
Omid


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Re: Days of the Week abbreviated

2004-05-02 Thread Omid K. Rad
Iran Localization Info for Microsoft .NET

After Behdad's justifications and concluding the survey about this discussion, I 
changed the section [3.2.3] of the draft as follows:

[3.2.3]
There is no abbreviated form for the weekday names in Persian. However, it is common 
to use the first letter of weekdays in the month calendars as shown below.

 


  






Changes are online:
http://www.idevcenter.com/projects/iranl10ninfo/draft/#3.2.3


Omid

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RE: FW: IranL10nInfo - First Week of The Year

2004-05-03 Thread Omid K. Rad
  Im going to find the regulation that is used in Iran to determine
  the first week of the year.
 
 There is no regulation or practice for that, as far as I know. I'd
 love to be proved incorrect. (Well, actually the first week of the 
 year doesn't start until Farvardin 14 here in Iran!)

Yes, I have come to the same conclusion. Anyways, we are to select
one of the rules as the default rule for Iran.
FirstDay, FirstFourDayWeek, or FirstFullWeek.

Using the Culture Browser tool we have provided, you can compare this
value for different locales that are already defined in .NET 1.1:

http://www.idevcenter.com/projects/iranl10ninfo/culturebrowser/datetimeformatview.aspx

For example CalendarWeekRule for
Arabic (U.A.E)  is FirstDay
Azeri (Cyrillic)is FirstDay
Danish (Denmark)is FirstFourDayWeek
English (Canada)is FirstDay
Farsi (Iran)is FirstDay
French (France) is FirstDay
German (Germany)is FirstFourDayWeek
Urdu (Pakistan) is FirstFullWeek


 
  To decide on the first week of the year weve got three rules (don't
  tire out yourself with these, just read on): [...]
 
 Are those the only ones .NET allows? The POSIX standards allow four
 more.

Well, the pro here is that the .NET first week rules adjust themselves
with the calendar so to cover every type of calendar they do not need to
be so much.

 The general idea is identifying a certain
 day of the week that its occurence marks a first week of the
 year. Considering Saturday as the first day of the week, your 
 FirstDay is equivalent to POSIX's Friday, your 
 FirstFourDayWeek is equivalent to Tuesday, and your 
 FirstFullWeek is equivalent to Saturday.

Good point, thank you.

  
 roozbeh
 
 

Omid


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Faraa-andishi

2004-05-04 Thread Omid K. Rad
Title: Message



FYI:
http://www.idevcenter.com/projects/iranl10ninfo/forum/?messageid=29#msg


Omid
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RE: IranL10nInfo

2004-05-04 Thread Omid K. Rad
I was amazed when I got my Ukranian friend read www.ozodi.org texts.
He was actually reading Persian!!!

Omid


 --- Jon D. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 I'm not sure if you're already aware of this,  but 
 www.ozodi.org run by Radio Free Europe distributes these Tajik fonts:
 
 http://students.cs.byu.edu/~jonsafar/fonts/xtajmcyr.ttf
 http://students.cs.byu.edu/~jonsafar/fonts/xtajtcyr.ttf
 
 -Jon D.
 
 
 
 --- C Bobroff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Peter,
  
  Please send me your Tajik keyboard and we can
  discuss it further off the
  list.  I don't think Arial Unicode MS will do but
  TITUS may work. I'll
  have to check.  My particular project was for the
  web so even if we do
  find a font, it will boil down to the eternal
  question of whether to
  embed, use graphics or force the user to download
  the font (or some
  combination thereof.)
  
  -Connie
  
  On Fri, 30 Apr 2004, Linguasoft wrote:
  
   Arial Unicode MS should do, plus (probably)
  Code2000 by James Kass or
   (possibly) Bitstream TITUS Unicode -- I've to
  check the latter ones. I am
   quite certain that there are a couple of
  Russian-made (not hacked) fonts
   around, too.
  
   Peter
  
  
   -Original Message-
   From: C Bobroff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 9:16 PM
   To: Linguasoft
   Cc: 'Roozbeh Pournader'; 'PersianComputing'
   Subject: RE: IranL10nInfo
  
  
   On Thu, 29 Apr 2004, Linguasoft wrote:
  
It's very easy to type Tajik using a Phonetic
  (i.e., mnemonic) Cyrillic
keyboard.
  
   With which font though? I could only find hacked
  fonts.
  
   -Connie
  

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RE: FW: IranL10nInfo - First Week of The Year

2004-05-05 Thread Omid K. Rad
On Tue, 2004-05-04 at 11:00 AM, Roozbeh Pournader wrote:
 
 I'll personally go for FirstFourDayWeek. (This is not a 
 FarsiWeb recommendation and is not even based on any specific 
 reason. It's just personal preference.)
 

I'm with FirstFourDayWeek too, because it marks the week [as the first
week of the year] when its bigger half goes after Norooz, and this makes
sense: A week belongs to the year in which it has more days happening.
Moreover, I don’t think this distorts any business payment regulations
in Iran since there is always at least one week of holidays for the New
Year.

 BTW, this looks like a good resource:
 
   http://www.unicode.org/cldr/comparison_charts.html


Thank you for the link. I found out that Unicode introduces another
similar way. It simply gives a value between 1 and 7 to a property of
Minimal Days in First Week that is so intuitive. The following table
compares the different methods used to define the first week of year.
Assuming that the first day of week is Saturday (for POSIX).

UNICODE .NETPOSIX
Minimal Days in First Week  CalendarWeekRuleFirst
Week Mark
--  
---
1   FirstDay
Friday
2   -
Thursday
3   -
Wednesday
4   FirstFourDayWeek
Tuesday
5   -
Monday
6   -
Sunday
7   FullDayWeek
Saturday

Values in each row are equivalent. The Unicode and .NET approaches are
relative to the designated First Day of Week in the calendar. Unicode
allows for all the possible values while .NET ignores those that are
less practical.

 (This also proves that there is a serious requirement for
 creating an standard for an Iranian Persian locale.)

I double. 

BTW, this XML scheme that Unicode suggests seems so suitable:

Locale Data Markup Language (LDML)
http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr35/


 roozbeh


Omid


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RE: Iranian Calendar

2004-05-16 Thread Omid K. Rad
On Sun, 15 May 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:

 So we've reached a consensus on using Iranian Calendar for
 the term referring to the solar calendar in action in Tehran,
 right? So we forget about Jalali name, and call it Iranian
 Calendar, quite like Chinese, Japanese, and other countries.

Iranian Calendar is okay IMHO, but I like the Persian Calendar
better for the name of the calendar system, since it covers more
countries. In Iran we use the Iranian subtype of the Persian calendar,
and in Afghanistan the Jalali subtype is used. I don't know about
Tajikistan.

Fortunately in .NET it is possible to define subtypes for a calendar
system provided that they use the same algorithm but differ in day
names, month names, date patterns and so on.

Omid

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RE: Iranian Calendar

2004-05-16 Thread Omid K. Rad
Title: Message



On Sun, 16 May 2004, C Bobroff 
wrote: On Sun, 16 May 2004, Hooman Mehr 
wrote:  The lunar Hijri calendar used in Iran is also an 
official calendar and  is calculated independent from other Hijri 
calendars used in other  islamic countries. It is an important 
calendar, since it determines  half of the holidays on our calendar. 
We also know that it has  slightly different month lengths than 
other Hijri calendars. Are there any online or downloadable 
calendars or converters for the lunar Hijri system used in Iran? I'm 
only hearing about this different month lenghts business 
today... -ConnieI don't think there is any difference in 
month lenghts either. This Java applet base on the Calendarical Calculations 
book is the best online application I've seen for converting dates:http://emr.cs.iit.edu/home/reingold/calendar-book/second-edition/CIIT.html
Omid
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RE: IranL10nInfo

2004-05-18 Thread Omid K. Rad
On Sun, 15 May 2004, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:

  It is still Amordad; I was going to point it out here
  to discuss, as I did not find about it in the archives. -Omid

 The answer is really simple:  Have you ever seen Amordad
 printed *anywhere*?  That's like using Pahlavi instead of 
 Modern Persian.

In fact I myself use 'Mordad' ordinarily, because I'm simply used to it.
But since I was drawn to this calendar thing I realized that the correct
word is actually 'Amordad' whose initial ALEF is dropped over a
not-so-long time, because of the simplicity to pronounce. The initial
ALEF in Persian was used to negate a noun, thus Amordad which means 'the
month of no-death' or 'the month of life' has now altered to Mordad
meaning 'the month of death'. It was interesting for me when I found
that many *printed* almanacs observe to use the original word and I had
never noticed that. My mind always saw 'Amordad' and read 'Mordad'. So I
was thinking why not have another exception in our literature such as
the VAAV in words 'khaahesh' and 'khaahar' that is written but not read.
Write 'Amordad' and read 'Mordad' to have the modern word while not
corruptting the old good meaning.

I don't have many calendars in hand here, but when I was in Iran I found
many calendars that use 'Amordad' instead of 'Mordad'. I took a photo of
the only Iranian calendar I have here for you too see an instance.

Omid
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RE: Iranian Calendar

2004-05-23 Thread Omid K. Rad
Hello,

I am slow these days to answer, sorry for that; I'm getting over the
exams now. I read the mailings for the last few days about the calendar.
It's nice to see new and knowledgeable friends like Hooman Mehr and
Ordak D. Coward taking part here. There were things new for me and mixed
up a bit. Let me brief out what I understand out of the mess about the
solar calendar. Please correct me wherever I'm wrong.

The calendar Hejrie Shamsi comes in types:

- The early solar calendar (Hejrie Shamsie Borji), an observational
solar calendar with tropical years. The months are synchronized
observationally with the duration sun stays in each of the 12 zodiacal
constellations, which vary between 29 to 32 days for each month with an
accumulation of 365 or sometimes 366 days a year.

- The old Jalali calendar, a true solar calendar with twelve 30-day
months followed by 5 or 6 additional days at the end to fill a complete
solar year. It starts with 'Norooze Jalali' [*].

- The modern Jalali calendar in use in Iran (Iranian calendar), reworked
on the old Jalali calendar and uses the same leap structure; consists of
six 31-day plus six 30-day months followed by a month of 29 days or 30
during a leap year. It starts with 'Norooze Jalali'.

- The afghan Jalali calendar. It has the same month lengths as the
Iranian calendar but the leap years are synchronized with the concurrent
Gregorian years. Afghans celebrate Norooze Jalali but the first day of
the year might start with an offset of 1 day from the Iranian calendar.

[*] Norooze Jalali: The first day of a Jalali year. It is defined by the
'Tahvil' moment, the exact tick that the center of sun passes the point
of vernal equinox in the northern hemisphere of the earth. If Tahvil
happens before noon of the meridian of Tehran, then Norooz is the same
day otherwise Norooz is the next day. There are different methods to
estimate the precise moment of VE. The effort is to find the one that is
as much as possible close to the real occurrence of the phenomenon.


Omid

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RE: Iranian Calendar

2004-05-23 Thread Omid K. Rad
On Mon, 17 May 2004, Hooman Mehr wrote:

 Hi Omid and Connie,

 MSDN way of specifying Hijri calendar is like saying the
 length of any month in Gregorian calendar is 30 days plus or 
 minus two days -- true but not very useful. [...]

Hi Hooman,

The Hijri calendar introduced in MSDN does not give you a totally
accurate date, since as you know there are many many elements and
dependancies around finding a correct Hijri date. It also does not work
based on a specific region. It simply lets you adjust it manually by 2
days. It means it has always a probability of 1 or 2 days of error and
seems that they prefer this descripency in return of the other
advantages it gives: to cover every variant and every region, and the
ability to fix the calendar in case that the observations change the
authoritative estimated version of the calendar at any time. It is
possible to implement the Hijri calendar the way ODC suggested, using
online tables of Hijri adjustments for the past years but it still
limits the divices to be online and yet it's impossible again to find
assured correct dates in the future. With the current conditions in mind
I think it is not out of sence to choose this particular calendar for
the OS to be ordinarily useable rather than tailoring it for complex
calendarical conversions.

Omid

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RE: LeapYears of Iranian Calendar

2004-05-23 Thread Omid K. Rad
On Fri, 21 May 2004, Ordak D. Coward wrote:

 I guess the best thing to do:
 
 - is get an archive of the last 50 years of official times of 
 vernal equinox, or saal tahveel, and compute the length of 
 year for each year. Fit them with linear or quadratic curves. 
 Look at  Birashk's method and see how much Birashk's length 
 of year differs from official length of year. Also, look at 
 the real variation of length of years, compute the calendar 
 for the next 1000 years using both Birashk and the curves. 
 Decide if using the curves will result in less error.

Good idea, if we can collect the list of Tahveel moments for the passed
years, I think I can easily prepare the curves with my implemented
calendar. It uses .NET DateTime objects with a presicion of 100
nanosecond (namely a tick). It also supports dates up to year 9378 A.P
(Anno Persico). But before that I have to manipulate a line of code to
work with Birashk's leap years.

 
 Here is an attempt to guesstimate when the official calendar 
 starts to diverge from Birashk's. A rough look at the last 
 few years variation of length of years show a variation of up 
 to 5 minutes.  So, each 144 years or so (24hours / 10 
 minutes) , we have a year whose VE is +/- 5 minutes of noon. 
 Hence, as long as we use a constant for the length of year, 
 it is very likely to see discrepancies once every 144 years. 
 However, this WILL happen as early as 1404. That is, if my 
 calculations are correct Birashk's method gives year 1404 as 
 a leap year, but I get 1403 as a leap year. (I am using some 
 acceptable length of years). That is, the VE of year 1404 
 should happen around 12:30pm which if it considered 
 afternoon, it shall be Esfand 30th of 1403. THIS IS IMPORTANT 
 AND SHOULD BE DEALT WITH. No amount of observational errors 
 can compensate this.
 
 Considering the computational power available today, it is a 
 shame if we stick to a method using constant length of year 
 which were only appropriate for pre-computer era.
 

I guess you're right. Since Showraaye Taghvim announces their own
calculation of the VE every year, their estimation may disagree with
that of Birashk in the next few decades. So we should choose the
algorithm that matches the real world as close as possible.

 --
 ODC

Omid

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{Spam:6} Re: Jalaali?!

2005-02-12 Thread Omid K. Rad








I am forwarding MSFTs reply FYI











From: Kit George
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: February 8, 2005 1:52 AM
To: Omid K. Rad
Cc: Kathleen Carey; Matt Ayers
Subject: RE:
System.Globalization.JalaaliCalendar - Jalaali?





Omid, thanks again for following up. Ill
forward this to our people over here as some specific feedback.



We do go to great lengths to get this
right, and we work closely with relative people in the appropriate cultures to
ensure that we are making the best choices. Inevitably there are situations
where theres some disagreement on an issue, and the best decision is less than
100% clear. But Microsoft leverages all resources at its disposal (including
customer feedback such as your own) in ensuring we have selected the most
appropriate solution. There can be times when we have to pick one choice or
another, even if one party feels thats fundamentally not the best choice.



Thanks for your feedback, we really do
appreciate this kind of help: it makes sure we know what different data we have
to help get this right the first time.



Regards,
Kit



-Original Message-
From: Omid K. Rad
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005
2:12 PM
To: Kit George
Subject: System.Globalization.JalaaliCalendar
- Jalaali?



Ref. Suggestion ID: FDBK17514



Hi Kit,

Thank you for your attention and following
up. Regarding the Jalaali (Jalali) calendar, if you stick to the current name,
then you have to change the calculations as well. Let me declare some points:




The calendar in use in Iran is locally called Hejrie Shamsi and not
Jalali. Jalali refers to the primitive solar calendar that was formally used in
Iran, which is totally different from the one that is being used right now. In
the other hand it is wrong to use the name Hejrie Shamsi in English.


The calendar in use in Iran is never called Jalali by the academic
authorities who arrange the calendar each year.


The original Jalali was never based on Hijra as year 1. It was solar but
not solar hijra, thus the era that the Jalali calendar refers to is other than that
of the current calendar in use.


In the Jalali calendar all the months have 30 days. The remaining 5 days
in the year (or 6 days in a leap year) will come after the 12th
month, whereas in the modern Persian calendar there are 6 months of 31 days
followed by 5 months of 30 days plus a month of 29 days (or 30 in a leap year).


Taking a look at the calendars that are in the System.Globalization
namespace: GregorianCalendar, ChineseLunarCalendar,
HebrewCalendar,
JapaneseCalendar,
JulianCalendar,
KoreanCalendar,
TaiwanCalendar,
you sense a culture or the region where the calendar is originated from or is
being used. Jalaali or Hejrie Shamsi make no sense in English, but the Persian
or the Iranian speak well of a culture.


You regularly see the Persian calendar or the Iranian calendar in the
English references. You see Jalali mostly in the Persian references.



Having the above in mind, Jalali
calendar is clearly not a proper name, even as a local name for Irans current
calendar. So for the English name there are only two choices: either the
Persian calendar or the Iranian calendar. I personally prefer to use Persian
Calendar since it keeps the culture while not limiting it to a specific
country. For example people of Tajikistan use this calendar as their second
calendar, and Afghans are considering switching their calendar system to that
of Iranians.



Regards,

Omid K. Rad

(NotHalfBuff)








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Re: Jalaali?!

2005-02-11 Thread Omid K. Rad








http://whidbey.msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/cpref/html/T_System_Globalization_JalaaliCalendar.asp



At MSDN Whidbeys class library you read:



The JalaaliCalendar class represents the
Jalaali calendar. The Jalaali calendar is also known as the Persian calendar,
or the solar Hijri calendar as opposed to the Arabic lunar Hijri calendar. 

The Jalaali calendar is used in most
countries where Farsi is spoken, although some regions use different month
names. The Jalaali calendar is the official calendar of Iran and Afghanistan,
and is one of the alternative calendars in regions such as Kurdish Mesopotamia,
Kazakhstan, and Tajikistan.

Dates in the Jalaali calendar start
from the year of the Hijra, which corresponds to 622 C.E. and is the year when
Mohammed migrated from Mecca to Medina. For example, the date March 21, 2002
C.E. corresponds to the first day of the month of Farvardeen in the year 1381
A.H.

The Jalaali calendar is based on a
solar year and is approximately 365 days long. A year cycles through four
seasons, and a new year begins when the sun appears to cross the equator from
the southern hemisphere to the northern hemisphere as viewed from the center of
the Earth. The new year marks the first day of the month of Farvardeen, which
in the northern hemisphere is the first day of spring.

Each of the first six months in the
Jalaali calendar has 31 days, each of the next five months has 30 days, and the
last month has 29 days in a common year and 30 days in a leap year. A leap year
is a year that, when divided by 33, has a remainder of 1, 5, 9, 13, 17, 22, 26,
or 30. For example, the year 1370 is a leap year because dividing it by 33
yields a remainder of 17. There are approximately 8 leap years in every 33 year
cycle.



Even though it gives a rather good briefing of the
calendar, however some parts really need to be changed. Besides the name of the
calendar that is still under debate, it seems to me that we have to start over
discussing about the name of the language as well. Where do they speak Farsi?!
I speak Persian. Another fault there is the era indication of A.H.
A.H. refers to Anno Hijae which marks a Hijri date. For Jalali (if named so) it
would be A.P. which stands for Anno Persico or Anno Pesarum.



If you see any other points that need mentioning, please
let me know. I am listing these points to make a feedback to MS. In the
meantime you can make your own comments to MS through the email address at the
bottom of the page linked above.



Thanks,

Omid K. Rad






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